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  1. #1

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    Hi, I'm new here!
    I came from Classical Guitar and I wolud like to learn something about how to improvise.
    I've studied "Classical Harmony" at Conservatory but I can't understand the first exercise of this book
    It is difficult to me to understand the choice of Mr. Goodrick.
    Anyone has got experience with this book?

    Thanks

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    The book is a look at the many possibilities of the instrument, both in a very specific albeit DIY approach and in a very vast far reaching abstract approach at the same time. I've lived with it as my bible forever. I don't have the book at my side at the moment, but what specifically is the first exercise you're referring to? Are you having trouble playing on a single string? Is this the exercise you're referring to?
    It is the execution or is it understanding why this is important?

    David
    Last edited by TruthHertz; 11-13-2018 at 09:21 AM.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filippo78 View Post
    Hi, I'm new here!
    I came from Classical Guitar and I wolud like to learn something about how to improvise.
    I've studied "Classical Harmony" at Conservatory but I can't understand the first exercise of this book
    It is difficult to me to understand the choice of Mr. Goodrick.
    Anyone has got experience with this book?

    Thanks
    Hi,

    as the book is extremely specific I would like to ask a few question:

    what style of music you would like to improvize?
    can you improvize in classical styles already (considering your backgrousnd)?
    do you improvize already without instrument?

  5. #4

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    And I looked at the book there are no numbers to excersises - they are inserted in the text - so please wite the page and line.
    Thanks

  6. #5
    I'm very familiar with the book, happy to be of whatever help I can.

    Keep in mind that Mick's book is not a 'method', where you have to start at the beginning and progress page by page. it's more of a collection of observations on how one might explore various material on the guitar. What kind of music are you interested in playing? Do any of the exercises (playing up and down one string, voice leading triads, exploring counterpoint, etc) seem like they'd get you closer to your musical goals?

    While having a familiarity with scales, triads, counterpoint, etc, etc, certainly offer a lot of possibilities for an improvising musician to explore, the book is also not a guideline on "how to improvise" in a jazz setting. A colleague of Mick's, Hal Crook, has a wonderful book titled "How To Improvise" that covers just that. It's for all instruments , written in standard notation, so with your classical background you'd be ahead of many guitarists in ability to read through it.

    Best wishes for your music,

    PK

    www.paulkogut.com
    paulkogutmusic - YouTube

  7. #6

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    The first activity he lays out is to map the natural notes on each string of the guitar and then improvise over the provided modal vamps one string at a time.

    First approach - Stay on one string and play through all seven vamps.

    Second approach - play one vamp six times and switch to a new string each time.

    Third approach - randomize the process so you are forced to play any mode on any string.



    ETA: I wish I had this book when I first started. I think Micks approach to learning scales and harmony would have made a huge difference.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    The book is a look at the many possibilities of the instrument, both in a very specific albeit DIY approach and in a very vast far reaching abstract approach at the same time. I've lived with it as my bible forever. I don't have the book at my side at the moment, but what specifically is the first exercise you're referring to? Are you having trouble playing on a single string? Is this the exercise you're referring to?
    It is the execution or is it understanding why this is important?

    David
    Hi David Thanks for the reply!
    I'm referring to the first exercise. I'm really trying to understand why there are some notes that he considered wrong.
    He said dont play : c# d# f# a# Db Eb Gb Ab Bb

    I'm used to trying to understand what I'm studying before sto start

    Thanks

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    Hi,

    as the book is extremely specific I would like to ask a few question:

    what style of music you would like to improvize?
    can you improvize in classical styles already (considering your backgrousnd)?
    do you improvize already without instrument?
    I wan to understand my instrument in deep and maybe after learn some Jazz Standards.

    Yes I can improvise but I'm not thinking to much Just playing...

    I played 10 years classical guitar and now I really want to know the possibilities of the guitar,I was tired just playing without understanding

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    And I looked at the book there are no numbers to excersises - they are inserted in the text - so please wite the page and line.
    Thanks
    Is the first exercise "Single string playing"...the book is translated I dont know if the pages are the same..page 11 to 16..
    The Question is why some notes are wrong to play?

    I'm just curious to understand the "way of thinking "before start

    Thanks

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulkogut View Post
    I'm very familiar with the book, happy to be of whatever help I can.

    Keep in mind that Mick's book is not a 'method', where you have to start at the beginning and progress page by page. it's more of a collection of observations on how one might explore various material on the guitar. What kind of music are you interested in playing? Do any of the exercises (playing up and down one string, voice leading triads, exploring counterpoint, etc) seem like they'd get you closer to your musical goals?

    While having a familiarity with scales, triads, counterpoint, etc, etc, certainly offer a lot of possibilities for an improvising musician to explore, the book is also not a guideline on "how to improvise" in a jazz setting. A colleague of Mick's, Hal Crook, has a wonderful book titled "How To Improvise" that covers just that. It's for all instruments , written in standard notation, so with your classical background you'd be ahead of many guitarists in ability to read through it.

    Best wishes for your music,

    PK

    www.paulkogut.com
    paulkogutmusic - YouTube
    Hi Paul thanks for your kind reply.
    Im trying to understand this book because I want to "understand" the guitar..
    It was very frustratring to "just play" for many years; Now I want to understand the possibilities of the instrument in relation with Harmony there I studied for many years but I dont really have the opportunities to understand on the guitar!
    The question is,why does he said that certains notes are wrong to play (C# D# F# G# A# Db Eb Gb Ab Bb) in the first exercize (single string playing)?
    I dont understand this warning because some of these notes are on the modes we have to play..
    I'm just curious to understand..

    Thanks for you advices!

    Filippo

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    The first activity he lays out is to map the natural notes on each string of the guitar and then improvise over the provided modal vamps one string at a time.

    First approach - Stay on one string and play through all seven vamps.

    Second approach - play one vamp six times and switch to a new string each time.

    Third approach - randomize the process so you are forced to play any mode on any string.



    ETA: I wish I had this book when I first started. I think Micks approach to learning scales and harmony would have made a huge difference.
    Hi Lineberry,

    I'm really trying to understand why there are some notes that he considered wrong.
    He said dont play : c# d# f# a# Db Eb Gb Ab Bb

    What do you think about?

    Filippo

  13. #12

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    I'm just curious to understand the "way of thinking "before start
    the whole book is 'his way of thinking')


    You see... if you want to improvize on standards.. (i still do not quite dig you mean... if you name a player or record you would use as an ideal - it would be easier)... I am not sure that this book is the thing to do now.
    But it can be good if you want some modal stuff - especially if you like these zen things and all... but if you want to play Wes-style - I am not sure.

    I played 10 years classical guitar and now I really want to know the possibilities of the guitar,I was tired just playing without understanding
    But when you played classical you also played without understanding?

    I come from classical background (and I still play most of the time on lutes -early classical music) and there are possibilities to know the intrument deeply in classical style and to improvize in classical style.
    Knowledge of the instrument is conencted with the style. I know classical guiatrists who can improvize fugues and sonatas.

    As for satandards - if you really know and hear classical harmony you see that it is there in jazz standards too... and if you listen to lines of great swing or bop improvizers you'll hear how much they are related to chord tones or to the extentions of chords...

    Unfortunately there are no magic methods and magic books... jazz methods are very individual.

    Are there any solos you like? Some phrases you like more when you hear them? Maybe it's good to start jsut from analyzing what you really here?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filippo78 View Post
    Hi Lineberry,

    I'm really trying to understand why there are some notes that he considered wrong.
    He said dont play : c# d# f# a# Db Eb Gb Ab Bb

    What do you think about?

    Filippo
    Because he wants you to stay within the sound of diatonic modes... it is just methodical to make you hear and play only these sounds as relative one another.

    THere is no special knowledge in it.. it is strictly methodical.

  15. #14
    The initial exercise is focused on the C major scale and it's modes, (D Dorian, E Phrygian, etc) so you'd avoid playing the notes that aren't in that scale. (Think about the white keys of a piano)

    When you move on to playing C Dorian, C Phrygian, etc, you'd use the other notes (black keys) as needed

    In some ways, the book is designed so the point of each exercise isn't necessarily obvious at the outset. The idea is to explore a concept and see where YOU end up, and what it might inspire for your playing and composing.

    PK

  16. #15

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    Ok I was thinking to much!

    Thanks

  17. #16

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    Ok Paul thanks for the reply I'm understanding more now..it's not obvious at all..this is the main reason I want to explore this book!

    Thanks,

    F.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    the whole book is 'his way of thinking')


    You see... if you want to improvize on standards.. (i still do not quite dig you mean... if you name a player or record you would use as an ideal - it would be easier)... I am not sure that this book is the thing to do now.
    But it can be good if you want some modal stuff - especially if you like these zen things and all... but if you want to play Wes-style - I am not sure.



    But when you played classical you also played without understanding? I'm not a professional player,aniway I can assure you that most of guitar players they dont really understand what they are playing..it's not always necessary..

    I come from classical background (and I still play most of the time on lutes -early classical music) and there are possibilities to know the intrument deeply in classical style and to improvize in classical style.
    Knowledge of the instrument is conencted with the style. I know classical guiatrists who can improvize fugues and sonatas. I'm sure there are guitarist that can improvise whatever..I'm not a professional players

    As for satandards - if you really know and hear classical harmony you see that it is there in jazz standards too... and if you listen to lines of great swing or bop improvizers you'll hear how much they are related to chord tones or to the extentions of chords...

    Unfortunately there are no magic methods and magic books... jazz methods are very individual.

    Iìm not looking for magical books,I'm 40 years old just love the knowledge

    Are there any solos you like? Some phrases you like more when you hear them? Maybe it's good to start jsut from analyzing what you really here?
    I love many different styles but first I would like to study Intervals on the guitar as it was the first time there I take guitar on my hands.

    Thanks for your reply

  19. #18

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    I can assure you that most of guitar players they dont really understand what they are playing..it's not always necessary.
    Oh I know believe me))) Not only guitar player)))

    Ok, keep it up! Hope you enjoy this travel)

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    Oh I know believe me))) Not only guitar player)))

    Ok, keep it up! Hope you enjoy this travel)
    Thanks "The advancing Guitarist" Mick Goodrick HELP!"The advancing Guitarist" Mick Goodrick HELP!

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  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filippo78 View Post
    Hi Lineberry,

    I'm really trying to understand why there are some notes that he considered wrong.
    He said dont play : c# d# f# a# Db Eb Gb Ab Bb

    What do you think about?

    Filippo

    Because you're trying to learn the C major scale and it's associated modes. Any notes other than C D E F G A B are not in the scale. The idea is to stick to only notes in the scale in order to learn it.

  22. #21

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    Filippo, I'll throw some ideas out and see if they make any sense in answering your question.
    The approach in this book is not to install any particular genre specific proficiency in the player's hands but rather to instill a relationship of sound, hand sense (kinesthetics) and a knowledge of the instrument that is so comprehensive that it allows any player to grow and embrace any genre of music. That's why it's called the Advancing guitarist.
    So rather than learn any specific "way" to play, or by any particular style, it opens doors so that if you can hear it, you'll be able to feel it and play it. That comes from an exhaustive and fearless familiarity of the instrument.

    You see, Mick played, taught and learned guitar for a long time before he achieved his own sense of logic and felt his own mastery of the instrument. At some point, he became the go-to guy for a generation of adventurous guitarists and this approach of "non jazz" improvisation allowed many to embrace more adventerous harmonies and sound. So he wrote this book as a way to get to know the instrument and the sound rather than the genre.

    Jazz improvisation is a compositional act. You create a composition each time you embark in a solo, and what you make depends on a lot of context depending on the song, the situation and the people you're playing with. So mastery of improvisation means you strive to eliminate the boundries that are inherent in other people's or genre's approaches and you use the entire fingerboard and 12 notes to create with.
    That section at the beginning of the book is a foundation. It's a foundation that introduces you to the sound of "normal" or the diatonic scale. So in learning the single string from different fingers, you establish a spacial relationship with music.
    So many scale methods, from Segovia scales to numerous arpeggio exercises establish finger proficiency but not an open ended method to find those sounds everywhere.
    The pages you are looking at focus on finding the sound and letting you create the "fingerscape" that lets you realize those sounds anywhere. So you start with a single string. You see the music within that string. You find that musicality in adjacent strings and see how they talk to one another.
    In the end, you fearlessly move from one phrase to another within the song form and the entire fingerboard is open to you.

    That's the goal. Does that make any sense?

    David

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filippo78 View Post
    Hi, I'm new here!
    I came from Classical Guitar and I wolud like to learn something about how to improvise.
    I've studied "Classical Harmony" at Conservatory but I can't understand the first exercise of this book
    It is difficult to me to understand the choice of Mr. Goodrick.
    Anyone has got experience with this book?

    Thanks
    Yeah, I like this book. It made my head hurt less than the other one.

    It's kind of big collection of apparently hippy dippy bullshit which on closer examination can easily consume the rest of your life's practice sessions. For one exercise.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filippo78 View Post
    I wan to understand my instrument in deep and maybe after learn some Jazz Standards.
    I would start by learning some jazz standards, some basic jazz skills such as chord construction, improvisation on chord tones and so on.

    Otherwise you'll disappear down some Mick Goodrick rabbit hole and turn up 20 years later with a enormously long beard and an inability to communicate in anything but cuneform.

    (I've seen it happen, it ain't pretty.)

    This book is really (AFAIK) aimed at people who can already play jazz and are looking for thought provoking ideas. It is NOT a method book for learning jazz.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I would start by learning some jazz standards, some basic jazz skills such as chord construction, improvisation on chord tones and so on.

    Otherwise you'll disappear down some Mick Goodrick rabbit hole and turn up 20 years later with a enormously long beard and an inability to communicate in anything but cuneform.

    (I've seen it happen, it ain't pretty.)

    This book is really (AFAIK) aimed at people who can already play jazz and are looking for thought provoking ideas. It is NOT a method book for learning jazz.
    Thanks for the advice "The advancing Guitarist" Mick Goodrick HELP!..I'll take my precautions!
    Just one exercise sometimes!
    I understand what you mean"The advancing Guitarist" Mick Goodrick HELP!

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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    Filippo, I'll throw some ideas out and see if they make any sense in answering your question.
    The approach in this book is not to install any particular genre specific proficiency in the player's hands but rather to instill a relationship of sound, hand sense (kinesthetics) and a knowledge of the instrument that is so comprehensive that it allows any player to grow and embrace any genre of music. That's why it's called the Advancing guitarist.
    So rather than learn any specific "way" to play, or by any particular style, it opens doors so that if you can hear it, you'll be able to feel it and play it. That comes from an exhaustive and fearless familiarity of the instrument.

    You see, Mick played, taught and learned guitar for a long time before he achieved his own sense of logic and felt his own mastery of the instrument. At some point, he became the go-to guy for a generation of adventurous guitarists and this approach of "non jazz" improvisation allowed many to embrace more adventerous harmonies and sound. So he wrote this book as a way to get to know the instrument and the sound rather than the genre.

    Jazz improvisation is a compositional act. You create a composition each time you embark in a solo, and what you make depends on a lot of context depending on the song, the situation and the people you're playing with. So mastery of improvisation means you strive to eliminate the boundries that are inherent in other people's or genre's approaches and you use the entire fingerboard and 12 notes to create with.
    That section at the beginning of the book is a foundation. It's a foundation that introduces you to the sound of "normal" or the diatonic scale. So in learning the single string from different fingers, you establish a spacial relationship with music.
    So many scale methods, from Segovia scales to numerous arpeggio exercises establish finger proficiency but not an open ended method to find those sounds everywhere.
    The pages you are looking at focus on finding the sound and letting you create the "fingerscape" that lets you realize those sounds anywhere. So you start with a single string. You see the music within that string. You find that musicality in adjacent strings and see how they talk to one another.
    In the end, you fearlessly move from one phrase to another within the song form and the entire fingerboard is open to you.

    That's the goal. Does that make any sense?

    David
    Of course David it's clear like the sun!
    I cant write very well in English so maybe it seems I was looking for something "strange"to understand,the purpose of Mr.Goodrick it is absolutely clear!

    Thanks for your reply,
    F.



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  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I would start by learning some jazz standards, some basic jazz skills such as chord construction, improvisation on chord tones and so on.

    Otherwise you'll disappear down some Mick Goodrick rabbit hole and turn up 20 years later with a enormously long beard and an inability to communicate in anything but cuneform.

    (I've seen it happen, it ain't pretty.)
    Hey look out there...

    "The advancing Guitarist" Mick Goodrick HELP!-img_1863-jpg
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  28. #27

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  29. #28

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    There is much more useful information on this site for learning jazz.

    I'd put the Goodrick book away.

    Go here on this website: Free Jazz Guitar Lessons | Learn How To Play Jazz Guitar
    "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates
    “Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.” - Alan Wilson Watts

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbler View Post
    There is much more useful information on this site for learning jazz.

    I'd put the Goodrick book away.

    Go here on this website: Free Jazz Guitar Lessons | Learn How To Play Jazz Guitar
    I'll go one further. Put away all the advice that limits your options and knowledge. Pick up your guitar and play.
    Once in a while, open your eyes but always keep your ears open.

    David

  31. #30

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    Also there is a great APP called irealpro..

    Which you can play along to about 1300 standards and there are exercises of ii- V-I
    Cadences both modulating or Static and you can even reprogram your "own" chords etc.change tempos etc etc.

    You can use it on your iphone Android ...or computer ...

    You can loop sections of Tunes also- it is the most amazing App - especially for people who can already play the Guitar.

  32. #31

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    I have some ibuprofen in my house, so I may start work on some of the ideas from that book again at some point...

    Might seem woolly, but easy it is not.

  33. #32

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    How to take measure of this book?


    1. I think the book is a good companion to a method book(s), but not a mainline method unto itself.

    2. It's valuable to the improvising and/or composing guitarist in particular.

    3. It challenges you to learn the fretboard by forcing you to stand back and look at the instrument differently. In particular, the single string "unitar" thing forces you to visualize and play without relying on the typical fingering patterns and position playing. That will give you a headache.

    4. It forces you to think out of the box (pun fully intended).

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    How to take measure of this book?


    1. I think the book is a good companion to a method book(s), but not a mainline method unto itself.
    Hehehehehe oh god no

    2. It's valuable to the improvising and/or composing guitarist in particular.

    3. It challenges you to learn the fretboard by forcing you to stand back and look at the instrument differently. In particular, the single string "unitar" thing forces you to visualize and play without relying on the typical fingering patterns and position playing. That will give you a headache.

    4. It forces you to think out of the box (pun fully intended).
    YES

  35. #34

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    Filippo,
    As David mentioned, always keep this book around - it's a lifetime of study!

    Another book I recommend is from one of Mick's partners, Hal Crook; find his "Ready, Aim, Improvise!" and enjoy!

    Ciao!