Question about modal interchange/borrowing

[rpjazzguitar]

I looked at the thread. There's a post just like one of mine -- asking for an example from a standard -- and the user is listed as Banned. I had no idea it was an offensive question <g>.

I think I'm beginning to understand *what* it is, but I'm still struggling with how to apply it.

Suppose we take a tune that starts with a bar of Cmaj7 and then a bar of Cm7 (Lady is a Tramp, for example).

The second chord can be considered a modal interchange chord, right? It's brief and the tune continues with a ii V I in C.

Which mode is it from? Is it C dorian, phrygian or aeolian?

I'm inclined to think C dorian would sound best, at least if you're not trying to sound outside, because it contains exactly the notes that changed in Cmaj7 to Cm7.

I guess the idea is that I can now look at other chords in C dorian and try to apply them. Dm7 F7 Gm7 and Ebmaj7 I guess are candidates. Of these, the Ebmaj7 would voice lead nicely to the next chord, which is Dm7. Maybe two beats Cm7 and two beats Ebmaj7? So, did I just apply MI?

Of course, I already knew that Cm7 and Ebmaj7 share a lot of notes. In fact, if the bassist stays on C, the audience hears Cm9 if you play Ebmaj7. The bassist might play Eb, in which case the audience is going to hear Ebmaj7 either way. Give or take the VI.

Next chorus, I decide to go to phrygian. So, it's C phrygian and I put in 2 beats of Bbm7. Is this the idea?

BTW, I like the sound of the Cm7 for 4 beats because of the overall feel of the tune. So, I would be more inclined to embellish with different Cm7 voicings than to try to do something that might disrupt the feel. That's a different topic.

[matt.guitarteacher]

There's a bit much of the grassy knoll, flat-earther, "emperor has no clothes" vibe related to much of this conversation. If you can't quickly and easily understand it, it's made-up or something?If someone relates MI to something easily understood, you marginalize it as "just a sub".

If you want a reductionist model for understanding this type of thing , it probably begins with something like basic understanding of modal guidelines and modal practices as they relate to melody and harmony. Can you write out parts for modal progressions? Do you understand modal cadences and the melodic implications for how tonal gravity of specific pitches is different, compared to major minor /Ionian Aeolian?

Honestly, I haven't put in the work on this stuff. So, it's a bit beyond me, but it would be extraordinarily foolish on my part , to become indignant, defensive, and accusatory towards those who've actually DONE the work and put the time in.

I haven't come across anyone on the Internet or otherwise who talks about these concepts in the same way that Reg does and who can also demonstrate by playing with these different concepts in real-time. Maybe he can't boil it down to some linear, reductionist tripe that I can immediately understand, but he's certainly doing something which I don't have a grasp of yet. Let's be as small minded as we feel like we need to be I guess, but enough with the accusations.

[christianm77]

The implication in this is beneath you. Ridiculous.

I think it’s a joke? Made me chuckle anyway.

[ragman1]

I looked at the thread. There's a post just like one of mine -- asking for an example from a standard -- and the user is listed as Banned. I had no idea it was an offensive question <g>

<g> indeed!

In case it wasn't a joke, and <g> doesn't stand for giggle, when a poster is banned their previous posts are not deleted. Unless they're contentious, one presumes.

Apart from that, quite funny :-)

I'm still struggling with how to apply it.

What do you mean, apply it? When you're composing a tune of your own? That's when you'd apply it. Try writing a very standard chord progression and then do the subs. Make it nice and interesting.

Other than that it's just there in the chords of known tunes and standards. Or are you talking about reharmonisation?

As we've said already, just stick to well-known favorites. They're the subs that work. Put in a minor 2-5 for a major... and all the others. Can't go over it all again!

[mr. beaumont]

Good Lord.

Modal interchange is just an explanation of where a sound comes from. Putting a name to face.

You find sounds you like, you catalog them, you can access them again.

There's absolutely no importance in ever using the term modal interchange. But I guarantee you the sound of it is one of the things that make jazz "jazz."

[cosmic gumbo]

Example, please?

This is MI information offered by Reg from another thread and is part of the basis for my question on using MI to mess with function, concepts for creating other organizational paths...but nobody can put any perspective on it that is of practical use.

Says Reg -
" Chord Patterns when applied with Modal Interchange principals, expand the possibilities of Function. The lead line and inner voices and even the lowest note can all become independent contrapuntal parts. You can expand functional harmony... with organization.

Much like many use subs to expand the access to more chords etc. and the basic organization is the use of Subs. Generally you would use some type of organization for how you use the subs... Adding Modal Interchange to use of Subs can expand single chord subs to becoming Chord Patterns, and access to Melodic Minor which helps Blue Notes or Blue note lines or licks to be voiced with different Chords with different functional movement. "

[ragman1]

nobody can put any perspective on it that is of practical use.

On the contrary, it's all been done above.

If you compose a tune that goes:

Dm7 - G7 - CM7 - FM7
Bø - E7 - Am - %

Try:

EbM7 - Do - Cm7 - F13
Bø - Bb7b5 - Am/Am^_/M7 - Am7/Am^_/M7


And call it Aisha instead of Autumn Leaves :-)