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There's also this. I'm not sure about the second time round though. Anyone?
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09-23-2018 05:43 AM
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Ab major is the parent chord of Dm7b5. It is what Barry Harris calls moving from the major (Ab) to the relative minor (F / sixth minor) to the sixth minor with a sixth in the bass (Dm7b5, also called half-diminished). In the case of this tune it is used not as a movement but as a chord substitution. This fellow explains it on piano and shows how the chord movement is used in standard tunes like Green Dolphin Street or Lover Come Back To Me at about the two minute mark. He demonstrates an example in the key of Ab.
Originally Posted by guitarboy
I was showing a student the tune Pennies From Heaven and one fake book uses the substitution of a minor with sixth in the bass for the first chord, (F#7b5 for C major). It makes for an interesting harmony. Here is an example of Lou Donaldson with Peter Bernstein playing Pennies From Heaven using this substitution.
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Don’t we have another example of that later in the tune?
Last edited by christianm77; 09-25-2018 at 01:41 PM.
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Yes. Bar 7 of Night and Day is C major, bar 8 is A minor, bar 9 is F#m7b5. This is the major moving to the sixth minor to the sixth with a sixth in the bass. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Chris Standring on Dmin7b5 here?
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If you take the first chord as Abmaj7, used as the IV chord in Eb, Warren Nunes ("there are only two types of chords") subs are Fm7, Cm7 and Dm7b5.
If you take the first chord as Dm7b5, and think of it as generated by Fmelmin, the Mark Levine ("all melodic minor chords are the same chord") subs are: Fm6 (or Fminmaj7) G7susb9 Abmaj7#5 Bb7#11 C7b13 Ealt.
Some work better than others to my ear.
Basically, it's anything that works as the chord before the V7. Per other posts, you can think of Ab as a modal interchange, but you can also think of it as simply sliding into the G7 from a half step above.
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Replacing iim7b5 with VImaj7 is a fairly common substitute - it works well, as long as it doesn't clash with the melody.
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My guess is that Dm7b5 sounds a bit thin at the beginning of a tune so they used AbM7 because it's stronger. Matter of taste, I suppose.
There's also Fm7 which is quite interesting.
(But if I was soloing I'd use F mel whichever chord it was)
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Many (especially older) Songbooks re-use the hand-engraved vocal-piano scores with guitar or ukulele chords from the original sheet music. I always find it worth to take a look at those (and in this case ignore the guitar chord notation and only look at the piano part) to get an impression of the original composition.
source
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That's an Abmaj7 for the first chord after the verse That is, a Cm triad (broken in the right hand) with an Ab in the bass.
The pickup bar is C6/A. Same notes as Am7.
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I know it's cheeky but I haven't touched this song for five years. So I've just done one... try to put up with me :-)
(I've used Fm7 to avoid DISPUTATIONS!)
Last edited by ragman1; 06-23-2023 at 05:42 AM.
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You just beat me to it. Cm my ----- Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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It sounds just like harmonic suspension to dominant (G7) to my ear. Kind of exeggerated altered dominant.
Dm7b5 works because it function in the same way in particular voicing (with no clash with melody).
Interesting... quite static melody (by itself non-expressive) with repetitive short motives and harmonic motion below is so typical for Cole Porter.
His songs seem to have two distinct leyers working only together and melody almost never informs about the harmony.Last edited by Jonah; 06-23-2023 at 09:47 AM.
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Playing Abmaj7 lines over a G7 chord is a device that George Benson uses (he demonstrates it in that ‘hot licks’ video he did some years ago).
Effectively it’s similar to playing Ab melodic minor over G7, the only difference (in G7 terms) is that you are playing a fourth (C) in the line instead of a major third (B). At the speed Benson plays, it sounds much the same.
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Cm in the chords and the Ab in the piano bass - tell me you think guitarists couldn’t manage an Abmaj7 chord without telling me Mr editor haha.
But - actually, yes. Cm/Ab is the actual sound of trad Abmaj7. Don’t play that Ab in the treble… )G in the melody of course)
Of course that’s the standard grip for guitar players anyway, but don’t get cute jazz students
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All tied into the slowly dawning realisation that the leading tone (B) is for dweebs Originally Posted by grahambop
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Stupid things like that are why I don't like using the original sheet music. They're written only for pianists. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I think the Real Book is just a compendium of Bill Evans, Chick Corea and Keith Jarrett's changes. I've gotta practically threaten his Mynah bird's life to get this one BE clone I used to play with to get him to play an AbMaj7 as the first change instead of his damn Bill Evans Dm7b511th..
Then on his solos, he'd go back to the Dm7b5 chord.
If I want to play a Cole Porter tune that starts on on a iim7b5, I'll call "I Love You" or "All of You".
Starting on the bVI offers so many great arrangement ideas that it resulted in one of my best BB charts.
I vary it with the iim7b5 for some contrast.
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That seems fair and proportionate
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Does no one else like this? Originally Posted by blackcat
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I like it, you're saved :-)
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Good man. I was beginning to think Standring's version was not up tp scratch! Originally Posted by ragman1
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The others were just busy elsewhere probably. It's fine playing.
PS. He fingerpicks like Mancuso :-)
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I thought that too. Seems to make his living out of smooth jazz but is clearly well founded in the 'tradition'. Originally Posted by ragman1
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