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07-13-2018 01:45 PM
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Christian, lovely video, one of your best, interesting & very nice vibe, i thought about the comment, dont tell anyone you doing ok....
Christian, keep doing what you doing, you're doing good.
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Thanks dude
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Duncan Lamont, blimey that name brings back memories. Used to see him at Ronnie Scott’s. Nice tenor sax player, his sound reminded me of Stan Getz.
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Enjoyed the video and it got me thinking about what books really influenced the way I play.
I'm going to omit the basic books that helped me learn to read music and find chords, well, other than to mention Rhythms by Colin and Bower.
I have the usual shelf full of books, but only a few were actually helpful, in retrospect.
In no particular order:
Warren Nunes' Jazz Guitar Portfolio. Iirc correctly this is a very slim book, but it presents the concept of tonal center. I studied with Warren in the 70s. I can't recall if I got this concept in a lesson, from the book, or both.
Jazz Theory by Mark Levine. The most helpful chapter was the one on melodic minor. The one on upper structures was helpful to a degree.
The original Real Book (It might have been better, but, in reality, I wasn't going to transcribe all those tunes myself).
Nelson Faria's Brazilian Guitar Styles.
I can't think of another at the moment.
I have lots of books with licks and patterns, but I don't think I actually use any of them. I have lots of books about chords, but I learned chords mainly from grids drawn by my early teachers and then by finding them myself from knowing how they are constructed.
I found a couple of Reg's videos helpful, but perhaps not for their intended purpose. His videos reminded me of what great time feel sounds like and to strive for it at all times.
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Haha I know what you mean about Reg...
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Thanks christian, always enjoy your posts and opinions...stumbled on this a bit late.
Looks like I'll try the Forward Motion as it juxtaposes BH.
The New Guide to Harmony is a bit steep @ $300 so I'll wait on that.
Any opinion on the Jazz Harmony Book by David Berkman...I'm working through that one now.
P.S. Please, next time, post a screenshot of the titles or a list so I don't have to scroll the vid for an hour.
Thanks,
DH
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Don't know the Berkman book I'm afraid
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Hey there Christian do you know
The New Guide to Harmony with Lego Bricks: Amazon.co.uk: Conrad Cork: 9780951579534: Books
?
It has a lot of the same material as 'Hearing the Changes' but gives weight to how a progrsssion's placement within the form changes the way that superficially similar chord progression are FELT. I actually find the Coker book to be EXCRUCIATING due to this oversight.
Given that amazon has a total of ONE copy for sale, and that a surprise since I have been looking to replace the copy that a pupil appropriated for over a decade, there is also this
Dropback Buy Now
Here is John's Podcast which is a great listen and represents one of the very few podcasts to ever address the appetite of the novice jazz performer.
John Elliott's Insights In Jazz Podcast | Free Podcasts | PodOmatic"
I share with you the love of the AB guide but lament the fact that it's prescriptive (as opposed to descriptive) approach seems to have been the model for the lamentably inaccurate Berklee method.... And by inaccurate I mean that the majority of all improvised melodic statements in the history of Jazz would seem to be flawed when measured by it's certainties.
The Schoenberg is great, have you read the didactic works by Hindemith ? I think you would enjoy them for the same reasons.
Paul Hindemith - Wikipedia
Anyway..... nice vid there. I've just realised that you are that guy, the one youtube has been recommending, cool.
D.
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Open the video in youtube, click on 'show more' in the description, and you will find the titles and authors of the books.
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TBH it's been so long since I checked out either book, I couldn't comment from memory.
Originally Posted by Freel
That's great. I'll add to to the list of the many hours of things I want to check out :-)Given that amazon has a total of ONE copy for sale, and that a surprise since I have been looking to replace the copy that a pupil appropriated for over a decade, there is also this
Dropback Buy Now
Here is John's Podcast which is a great listen and represents one of the very few podcasts to ever address the appetite of the novice jazz performer.
John Elliott's Insights In Jazz Podcast | Free Podcasts | PodOmatic"
Lamentably inaccurate... hah... Brace for turbulence my friend! What Berklee method book are you talking about?I share with you the love of the AB guide but lament the fact that it's prescriptive (as opposed to descriptive) approach seems to have been the model for the lamentably inaccurate Berklee method.... And by inaccurate I mean that the majority of all improvised melodic statements in the history of Jazz would seem to be flawed when measured by it's certainties.
I'm just glad I learned what a secondary dominant and leading tone diminished seventh is. It seems from conversations you can get through 4 years of top level UK jazz school and not realise E7b9 is the same thing as G#o7 and the target chord for both is Am (or major.) No, really.
I haven't read the Hindemith, but then Hindemith gets a bit passed over doesn't he? What are your favourite pieces? I know fuck all about him. Apart from that he wrote an opera about Kepler.The Schoenberg is great, have you read the didactic works by Hindemith ? I think you would enjoy them for the same reasons.
Paul Hindemith - Wikipedia
Anyway..... nice vid there. I've just realised that you are that guy, the one youtube has been recommending, cool.
D.
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there's no way! Originally Posted by christianm77
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Mostly I know his didactic works.
Elementary Training for Musicians: Amazon.co.uk: Paul Hindemith: 8580000688719: Books
The AB guide's section on melodic consrtuction seem to be the inspiration for lamentably PRESCRIPTIVE attempts to codify jazz language. There are screeds of descriptions on how to build a jazz line that have almost nothing to do with jazz lines and an awful lot to do with an attempt to copy the AB guide to music theory's explanation of First Viennese School melody with a jazz slant.
E7b9 ?
A, or C or Gb or Eb, major or minor...... but that is assuming movement in one direction of the cycle of fourths.
II 7alt also moves nicely to I (think 'Sitting on the Dock of the Bay') so also F,Ab,B,and D.
Anything works if you have the sense to not give a furk about being right.
D.
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I don't think the AB guide is a seminal text. I think the influence must come from somewhere else. Originally Posted by Freel
It's been about 20 years since I've read the book, so I can't really comment on the specifics.
Sure, I was just giving the most basic option, in G major for instance.E7b9 ?
A, or C or Gb or Eb, major or minor...... but that is assuming movement in one direction of the cycle of fourths.
II 7alt also moves nicely to I (think 'Sitting on the Dock of the Bay') so also F,Ab,B,and D.
Anything works if you have the sense to not give a furk about being right.
D.
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I am not so sure, if I were under pressure to formulate an ad hoc syllabus and wanted to lean on a well regarded text in 1965 if might find myself looking for inspiration and justification in the something like the book which Eric Taylor revised for the ABRSM. And if I were a money making institution I might find that it would be expedient to stand behind that ad hoc prescriptive text for commercial reasons ,even if all the more accomplished staff found it trite and risible. Originally Posted by christianm77
I wonder why seminal doesn't have two E's ? Anyway my rice pudding is finally ready and I am going to bed now post carb crash, if you are aware of an audio podcast other that John Elliot's which is aimed at musicians of some accomplishment then I would be glad to hear of it.
D.
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I think I'm glad that my start was pre-jazz academia, and there were no jazz books to speak of. I snagged a copy of William Russo's Jazz Composition and Orchestration, because that was all there was. Haven't bought another jazz book since then.
The masters I look to didn't have any books, and it kept them from regurgitating some codified jazz-like tripe. Theirs was very uniquely personal stuff. I think the products of academia (publishing) has had an inhibiting factor as much as it may have provided a codex...for jazz...ha-ha-ha. That's a ridiculous concept.Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 08-25-2018 at 09:46 PM.
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I've tried learning from books, and I've probably learned a few things from books, but I don't think any of it has made its way into my playing in any identifiable manner. I've definitely learned more from listening and picking up and then playing around with language from recordings. It hasn't stopped me from buying books though!
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really thought this was required reading
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Never heard of it :-) Is it any good? Originally Posted by WILSON 1
really thought this was required reading
Probably is required reading. I don't think anything is required reading though, required listening, maybe...
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Oh wait, I did see in the forum, downloaded and skimmed through it, it's on my computer.
I think it's a good book. I found about it too late in my development for it to be much of an influence in that I'd already worked the stuff out from it myself by checking out music, and it's one of those things were I go - oh yeah, that's what i thought.
There's probably some stuff later on in the book that I should check out.
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This juxtaposition is not one I wanted. Originally Posted by Freel
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Yeah, he gets into BH stuff towards the end. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Seems like required reading to me. But it is from an intro to jazz harmony course he taught, so it assume very basic knowledge. Still absolutely one of the best.
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Yeah, I'm fairly sure I'm working my way backwards but I get a kick out of the harmonic theories that confirm one another. Originally Posted by rlrhett
Berkman's book puts a diminished 7th right on the tonic as a sub and (call me slow) but there it was BH seventh diminished scale with a dim on the fourth of the scale.
So, as I was having trouble with "It Could Happen to You" when it gets to the tonic and sort of lingers there, I've got another option...eh, that I failed to catch through AK's book.
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