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  1. #31

    "to hear a scale" its tricky

    there are some automatic things that i think would help me dealing with new modes,
    i think i need some "markers" like chords that i'll know what scale to play on them , beside the try and error process that i'll would have to do

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    St.Petersburg, Russian Federation
    you see the thing is that in this book it looks like modes is somethong out of discussion.
    But plenty of people play without any reference to modes.

    I am not agaist chord scale approach in general.. but I think it's really distructive if the player does not know functional harmony and simple melodic approaches based on its tensions and release

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by nirs View Post
    to the question, in jazz, in general , not according to levin, is there any welll known chords that represent modes of the melodic minor ?, chord that i know that when i see them i can improvise on a certain mode?
    accordin to levin i see there are many , can you give me some classic exemple of 1 or 2 chord for each mode?
    I'm not certain I fully understand this question. But, I'll give it a shot.

    If you see a C minmaj7 chord, it is contained within C mel min. If you improvise using the notes of C mel min, it is likely to work.

    There may be other scales which also contain C minmaj7, so, depending on the situation, maybe some other scale or mode would be better, but I'm not enough of a theoretician to know what all the possibilities are.

    The same argument applies to every one of the chords that Levine cites as coming from mel min. If you see one of those chords, you can try the appropriate mode of melodic minor. If it doesn't work, at least it's probably not off by more than a note or two.

    I would encourage you to create a backing track looping, say Fmaj7 and G7#11. Then try every mode/chord/cluster of notes from Dmelmin against the G7#11. You'll be able to hear how it works.

  4. #34

    ok, thanks i'll try it, do you know

    other good books for jazz exept this one?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by nirs View Post
    other good books for jazz exept this one?
    Bert Ligon - Jazz Theory Resources

    Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

  6. #36

    great thanks

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by nirs View Post
    other good books for jazz exept this one?
    I have a shelf full of books.

    I got very little from any of them that improved my ability to improvise.

    Warren Nunes wrote a very thin book called the Jazz Guitar Portfolio. It's really short, but, iirc, it covered tonal centers and use of major scales and modes. I found it useful.

    I did find Levine's explanation of melodic minor to be very helpful.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    St.Petersburg, Russian Federation
    I like Burt Ligon...

    but whatever you take... keep in mind that jazz is noi the music that is connected with written educational tradition.
    Even in classical - where there is a theory as a part of tradition - the best way to learn is analyze earlier music and compose.

    You see - we do not know who you are, we do not know your background... applying Levine's book at the beginning can result in total mess... Actually resulted already.

    In jazz you can read books- and find it supportive..
    but the best way is still to try to figure out the audial relation in music..
    How the harmony sounds.. how it is realted to music... what is the musical idea you want to play...

    And transcribe - but not complete solos! - just something that catches your ear... a phrase, turnaround and see how it works...

    One of my teachers once told me. I was trying to explain something I heard in sonata but I did not know the terms... I asked him how can I call thios chord? He said: I don't know... the most impostant thing is that you understand how it works...

    And as a theoretic basisc I would recommend functional classical theory combuned with solfeggi... I mean theory in practice.
    So that you would hear chord connections and relations...

    Then you can read and apply anything you hear about jazz... the most important thing is that you will trust only what you hear.

    Check for example Chrstian Miller's or Jordan Klemmon's threads here and their videos - I do not say that it is the only way...
    but they are all about ears, they are profound and do not give trick to fool around, but they are extremely practical.

    You know I watched recent Pete Bernstein's masterclass on facebook and was a bit sad about the questions I saw in the thread below... seems like people just do not know why they begin to play...

  9. #39

    thanks guys for all the knowledge and the advises

    im sure that more intresting questions will come in the future,

  10. #40
    Everybody does such a good job In talking about musical Concepts I'm not going to bother with the nuts and bolts... I think you're looking at Mark Levin book in the wrong way.. first I'm going to recommend reading jean-philip rameau's book.. Mark Levin wrote his book when there were a lot of Concepts being invented and reinvented.. see now we're actually talking about music theory.. keyword.. Theory.. I have issues with some of his Concepts but he was trying to put things in a way we can communicate.. try to get past the way it's written I mean how many different ways do we write a diminished seventh chord. just try to hear the concept. Play the chord and then read what he saying about it. Understand what his opinion is because you're going to run into a lot of people that think just like him and you need to understand where they are coming from.

  11. #41
    He's adding "A" or "La" because wants to. Seriously, things like this appear all over books/lead sheets. They often use the most "vanilla" chord symbol even if the written out voicing contains more extensions.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Ottawa, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by nirs View Post

    I see what Levine is thinking in relating this to melodic minor in that most of the chords derived from the scale have many of the same qualities but - taken in isolation - this is just a plain old Bbmaj7#5/D (third in the bass). There is no G in the chord so why name it G anything? Of course you can say it is the chord derived from the third degree of G melodic minor thus it is G something but why would you do that? It just seems a sloppy way of naming chords that already have names.

    Am I crazy?

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Metrowest Ma
    Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't the 'A' on a G-maj7/D chord the 9th? That would make it 're' based on the chord (G), not 'la' based on the parent scale (C).

    That's how I see it anyway.
    Check out my new book, Essential Skills for the Guitarist on Amazon.

  14. #44
    I wouldn't have named it based on a G root, I guess.

    It's just that there's another way to think about it.

    Levine's view is that every chord in melodic minor is the same chord.

    In this case, the only argument I can see for Levine's name for this chord is that calling it Gminmaj/D might alert the reader to the underlying melodic minor harmony. Maybe he's going out of his way to make that clear.

    OTOH, if you don't have a G in the chord, don't put a G in the chord name.

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