The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Maybe you didn't see my post above as to why someone might think melodic minor. in short because it's in the dvd book

    edit: plus there's a difference between how he treats line playing and harmony

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758
    Maybe you didn't see my post above as to why someone might think melodic minor. in short because it's in the dvd book

    edit: plus there's a difference between how he treats line playing and harmony
    OK. I thought the 5432 stuff was just presented in this off the cuff, almost rudimentary way, to give people notes to play , so that you can have this default pool of notes to choose from to make lines, which can be applied to any kind of chord quality and so forth

  4. #53

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    Has anyone here made it to DVD II? Is minor scale line building discussed in depth there?

  5. #54

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    I own it and have watched it, but haven't put the principals into use like I have for #1.....there's too friggin much

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Has anyone here made it to DVD II? Is minor scale discussed in depth there?
    Just to be clear do you mean part two of the series? Part one was four DVDs part two was four was DVDs as well I think of it as DVDs one through eight .

    part 1 is DVDs 123 and 4.

    part 2 ( recorded like a decade later , with Alan on guitar ) is DVDs 5-8. That’s how I understand it

  7. #56

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    Haha I feel you. I’ve properly assimilated maybe 30-50% of the material on pt 1 into my playing.

    But what I have assimilated has massively built my vocabulary already. It has taken a couple of years to really get going with it.

    The difference between understanding the stuff and playing it is always huge for me.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    Just to be clear do you mean part two of the series? Part one was four DVDs part two was four was DVDs as well I think of it as DVDs one through eight .

    part 1 is DVDs 123 and 4.

    part 2 ( recorded like a decade later , with Alan on guitar ) is DVDs 5-8. That’s how I understand it
    i mean pt 2

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    i mean pt 2
    Looking at my notes, I must’ve gone through like DVDs 1-4 (part 1) five and six, i.e. the first half of part two . So I still have to go through the last two DVDs
    The first DVD of part 2 is all about movement, how to get from one chord to the next, functionally, using diminished or using lines and surround notes, then explains Going through rhythm changes.

    DVD six it’s all about the half step rules . That’s as far as I got. . Here are some of my notes .

    1.Which diminished gets you where ?


    I dim —-iii, V
    I# dim—II, IV, vii
    II dim—I, vi


    2.Major and minor 6 ° scale —from the tritone’s Minor (5th built from the tritone of a Dominant 7th ) serves as the ALT scale for that Dominant . Thus Db-6 ° serves as the “alt scale “ for the C7. Tritone of C7= Gb7, 5th of Gb7 =Db.

    3. I think Sheryl Bailey was also paying attention and use this little nugget for many of her classes

    “How do you generate a Dom7 from any chord quality ?? you see a m7b5, remember that this arpeggio is the from the third degree of a dom7. A m7 is arp measured on the 5th degree of the dom7. A M7 is the arp measured from the b7 of the dom7.

  10. #59

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    TBF it’s often not that big of a deal what exactly we do on minor afaik because in general in minor lines I am setting up the dominant and resolving into the minor chord. I’m not really playing that many notes on the minor chord and not usually a whole scale.

    Barry’s focus on the dominant scale is really significant imo

    So I actually have no problem playing tunes like Yesterdays, Alone Together and so on without really having done that much minor scale work.

    I notice in the RBH video the i chord in a minor blues is dressed up with movement (ii v i) which kind of removes the need to play over a long expanse of static minor.

    That said I do practice for instance this line:

    1 7 6 b6 5 4 b3 4 2 b2 1

    Which I understand to be the 3 added note version of the minor scale.

    Which I learned in class (if I remember it right)

    The question I wouldn’t mind knowing the answer to is what form the minor scale takes with no added notes.

  11. #60

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    Dm -
    D E F G A Bb B
    C7 down to third of A7 -
    Bb A G F E D C#
    Dm -
    D E F G A Bb B

    Works better... Maybe that's why?

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Dm -
    D E F G A Bb B
    C7 down to third of A7 -
    Bb A G F E D C#
    Dm -
    D E F G A Bb B

    Works better... Maybe that's why?
    Assuming you mean key of D minor, it’s pretty much mirrors the form I wrote above for key of C minor .

    CDEbFGAbA
    AbGFEbDCB
    CDEbFGAbA

    7 note min 6 dim scale to the 6th
    take the V7 of the tonic, move it up a minor third because they are brothers and sisters ( your case-A7-C7-Eb7-Gb7; my scenario G7-Bb7-Db7-E7); descend from the flat 7 of the Brother to the 3rd of sister V7.

    The key BH principle s playing with brothers and sisters ( the 4 dominant seventh chords built from each diminished ) and coupling with the minor six diminished chord .

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    Assuming you mean key of D minor, it’s pretty much mirrors the form I wrote above for key of C minor .
    Sorry I missed it, my eyes glaze over when I see long lists of note names. I wish it were easier to post staff notation.

    7 note min 6 dim scale to the 6th
    take the V7 of the tonic, move it up a minor third because they are brothers and sisters ( your case-A7-C7-Eb7-Gb7; my scenario G7-Bb7-Db7-E7); descend from the flat 7 of the Brother to the 3rd of sister V7.

    The key BH principle s playing with brothers and sisters ( the 4 dominant seventh chords built from each diminished ) and coupling with the minor six diminished chord .
    Yeah. You know, I was aware of this concept before I learned it via Barry Harris... Pat Martino teaches a version of it... Anyway I seldom use the E7... I should get into it.

    Anyway, one step at a time. It's much more important to me to properly be able to apply one thing consistently in every possible situation before moving on. I spent about a year or two on Bb7, and started Db7 about six months ago.

    I actually learn very slowly, but I do at least tend to retain information at a deep level once it's gone in.

    Barry would get very impatient with my lack of talent and ability lol.

    Also, there's a lot there. There are a bunch of different ways you can apply and change each simple concept, developing flexibility as you go.

    ATM, I am also looking at pivots (octave displacement). This is a huge area for developing more language from what I'm already working with.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Sorry I missed it, my eyes glaze over when I see long lists of note names. I wish it were easier to post staff notation.



    Yeah. You know, I was aware of this concept before I learned it via Barry Harris... Pat Martino teaches a version of it... Anyway I seldom use the E7... I should get into it.

    Anyway, one step at a time. It's much more important to me to properly be able to apply one thing consistently in every possible situation before moving on. I spent about a year or two on Bb7, and started Db7 about six months ago.

    I actually learn very slowly, but I do at least tend to retain information at a deep level once it's gone in.

    Barry would get very impatient with my lack of talent and ability lol.

    Also, there's a lot there. There are a bunch of different ways you can apply and change each simple concept, developing flexibility as you go.

    ATM, I am also looking at pivots (octave displacement). This is a huge area for developing more language from what I'm already working with.

    Well I feel better that I’m not the only one around here that learns very slowly. It takes me constant practice of doing something over and over and over and over again before I get it. I didn’t play guitar or music as a kid, and pretty much started the whole thing only a few years ago from the time I joined this site. So there was no van Halen Malmsteen era for me. On the other hand, as an adult, I knew my Fletcher Henderson for my Chick Webb. But, thankfully, after learning very slowly and practicing a ton, when I get it, I get it .

  15. #64

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    Count me in for the "slow learner" club.

    Is the dominant scale strictly a soloing thing? I see it mentioned in Alan's book but not really discussed. But Alan's book is mainly about chord movement. (I'm still working on the chord scales).

  16. #65

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    Yeah I think so. The soloing stuff forms the basis of Roni Ben Hur’s Talk Jazz.

    There is a dom7-dim scale for use in chords, but it’s different from the dominant scale

    1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7 7

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah I think so. The soloing stuff forms the basis of Roni Ben Hur’s Talk Jazz.

    There is a dom7-dim scale for use in chords, but it’s different from the dominant scale

    1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7 7
    Yeah, IINM, Alan also mentions that but doesn't get too into it. But I still have plenty of "brothers and sisters" work to do before I need to worry about that, so not a pressing concern ATM.

  18. #67

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    Please excuse me if this has already been answered, but why does he play a miscast I Major 7 in bar 7 and in bar 10 rather than a I7 or I6 ?
    All my life I thought I heard the greats playing I7 or I6 or iii7 or III 7 at that point
    Last edited by rintincop; 09-10-2018 at 07:52 PM.

  19. #68

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    he's teaching to play a turnaround to ii there

  20. #69

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    Last edited by rintincop; 09-10-2018 at 07:53 PM.

  21. #70

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    cool, don't do it

  22. #71

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    Last edited by rintincop; 09-10-2018 at 07:49 PM.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    Please excuse me if this has already been answered, but why does he play a I Major 7 in bar 7 and in bar 10 rather than a I7 ?
    All my life I have heard the greats playing I7 there.
    For an actual example, look where the melody goes to in bar 7 of Billies Bounce by Charlie Parker - there’s an E natural on the F chord.

  24. #73

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    it's a scale that sounds the turnaround, not the chords he uses. standard turnaround to 2 is C, F7, Em, A7, right?

    do re mi fa thats the c chord.. could be maj 6, maj7, or dom 7

    sol la ti la that's you F7 "ti" is the note you don't like, but that is what gives it a an augmented 4th. lydian dominant or whatever

    sol fa mi re- there's your Em

    di (#1) that's the third of your A7

  25. #74

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    Charlie Parker plays I maj 7 in this spot.
    I haven’t studied Wes as much, but I did hear him play I maj there too. Both sound alright. The maj7 sounds less bluesy, more melodic.

    We are taking playing that when soloing, right? Most blues heads have the I7 there I believe.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    For an actual example, look where the melody goes to in bar 7 of Billies Bounce by Charlie Parker - there’s an E natural on the F chord.
    Right. And listen how Charlie Parker solo in this tune, I maj7 straight in the first chorus.