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Now to the real material... sounds like great Pub, I'm in ... Hey Tim I'll be in Portland late April...would be cool to hook up....I can buzz up from Portland. Reg
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03-06-2010 09:53 PM
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Sounds like a chord for math freaks. I've read hundreds and hundreds of charts and never encountered it once.
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On that Dim. maj 7 chord...where do you pull from, 4th or 6th degree of harmonic maj. with added nat. 13, (Har. Maj, C,D,E,F,G,Ab,B C, sometimes the Bb is added to make V chord have both b9 and #9, The normal V7b9 in Har Maj or V7#9)... or from symmetrical Dim....anyway name would depend on function is school of my choice...Good subject..Reg
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When in doubt.....write it out.
I would rather the composer/arranger write out the chord and voicing when they want a specific ,unusual chord (i.e. any thibg above a 13th)
When it comes to shortcuts i think the classical world has the jazz/pop world beat with their use of figured bass . You know, I 63 Ect. That pretty much tells you how they want it.
Still, if the arranger hear's a particular voicing he should write it out on the beat it occurs followed by the slashes.
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Suppose you're using a post-gregorian scale with altered major and minor thirds (GEGBDF#AC#..), you encounter the augmented 15th at C#. However, rather dissonant, 15th chords become available for passing use.
Originally Posted by Reg
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Full extension chords from note collections (scales) of more than 7 notes could be named with numbers including 15, 17, 19, 21, 23.
These occur with extensions of 8-12 note structures.
Apart from these kind of sounds being less familiar problems arise from the use of a naming system with 7 letters.
Post tonal theory numbers the notes 0-11 and calls them pitch class.
Name choice can be challenging when you are playing just a crunchier version of tonal movements.
Post tonal theory believes it wrong to describe music tonally that is not following tonal conventions.
Personally I don't fully believe in atonality when I can still hear resolutions between chords.
Maybe there are too many direct modulations, I see it as a shortcoming of my ears to keep up with complexities.
Post tonalists also use the word centricity to explain when one pitch class is featured over others.
I can get behind this idea. Dave Leibman in his book on chromatic harmony likes the idea of multi tiered slash chords because it gives insight into some component parts that can be played off of, perhaps a more multi chordal approach than the scalar approach conveyed by 7 note extended chord names.
When these ideas start manifesting on leadsheets with regularity we will have to deal with naming conventions as a collective.
Till that day it will be at times confusing.
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Very funny... and OK in your context, Reg Originally Posted by dfhwze
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If there was such a chord, it would be called a compound octave, no earthly use, the 13th is our ceiling [major 6th with a dom7]--11#[flat5],flat9 etc.
We're in the moving dominant business[around the cycle]. If that sounds too simple, get a copy of the LCCTO, Ive just received mine. No pain no gain.LG..
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There are a lot of theories of music, I am of the mind that investigation and understanding of as many points of view as possible is a good objective. Originally Posted by larry graves
Just because the traditional system of writing chord symbols is so widely used, doesn't mean that our personal musical mind must be limited to a notation system. I never advocated for the use of such a chord symbol, it was just an observation that this particular voicing for a dominant b9 sounds vastly different from others, and thus, has a slightly different function.
not sure what the LCCTO is.
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I cannot agree with this statement, having heard the chord and used it, it sounds very different from a traditional dom(b9) Originally Posted by larry graves
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Tim.What does it look like in a chord box. If I can play it I'll use it. The LCCTO means--The Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization [the Concept], by George Russell.It's rocket science with a pick. the fourth edition costs about a £150.00. If you have the wedge and are serious
about enhancing your jazz vocabulary,buy it!
Or steal it, you'll need serious cell time to learn it. LG..
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One example would be somthing like this
e---X-----1----X---X-----X---
b---4-----1----1---X-----1---
g---5-----3----0---3-----1----
d---5-----3----2---2-----1----
a---X-----4----4---4-----X---
e---4-----X----X---X-----1---
if the bass player plays Ab---- Db---- C-- C-- F----
Then you get the tention and resolution of the root to the 7th. At least thats how I hear it. I often use this voicing to get some added dissonance to the old (b9)
The Lydian Chromatic concept is definatley worth spending more time with, I've taken a gander but never jumped in all the way.
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I just saw this thread, didn't want to restart any controversy but... Originally Posted by timscarey
When I think of a "15 chord" I don't think 15th chord but 1,5 chord as in power chords played by rock guitarists (R,5 or R,5,R). Either a 2 or 3 note chord with the root on the 6th or 5th strings with no 3rd played.
While it technically may not be a chord and certainly much simpler than previous descriptions, I thought it might be interesting if to mention even though it probably isn't what the OP had in mind.
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Thanks for spelling out the C 15 chord. I googled it and found out how to play it here. It really does exist. It showed up in Moonlight Serenade, a Glenn Miller standard. I've never seen it before today.
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Exactly ...which is why we don't need to make Chord Naming and / or analysis any more complex than it really is. Originally Posted by Jazzarian
To denote a different script ror whether a Major 7th note is Octave 1 or Octave 7 is what Notation is for ...
Or on the Guitar if it HAS to be a certain voicing we have Notation or TAB right ? Or both for Mozarts like me who can barely read ..?
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