What is the Major Scale based on?

**bobsguitars09** · 09-17-2009, 12:36 PM

What is the Major Scale based on? where does it come from?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-17-2009, 12:39 PM

This sounds like something you might find on Wikipedia. Have you tried there? I seem to remember a J. S. Bach quote: "if you have to ask, man, you ain't never gonna know."

**bobsguitars09** · 09-17-2009, 12:49 PM

This tells me what it is
Major scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wanna know "Why" it is

**randalljazz** · 09-17-2009, 01:00 PM

huge topic. physics. biology. cosmology. spirituality. start with acoustics:

Musical acoustics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Acoustics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Music and mathematics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

history of music:

:: Welcome to A History of Western Music - 7th Edition ::

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-17-2009, 01:37 PM

When I took piano lessons I always wondered why C major got to be "all white keys". Shouldn't they have started with A?

I also wondered about the piano pedals. I pedaled for years and the damn thing never went anywhere.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-17-2009, 01:57 PM

the greeks, right? they called it ionian. it was just one of several scales that became known as the "church modes" later on. there's nothing special about it, other than the fact that someone up and ran with it!

that's the real question--what i want to know is who was the composer we can thank (or blame) for making it the basis of almost ALL WESTERN MUSIC?

**DonnyK** · 09-17-2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

When I took piano lessons I always wondered why C major got to be "all white keys". Shouldn't they have started with A?

I also wondered about the piano pedals. I pedaled for years and the damn thing never went anywhere.

Sounds like something Tom Waits would say

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-17-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by DonnyK

Sounds like something Tom Waits would say

I'm a huge Tom Waits fan. What does he say on "Nighthawks at the diner"?

My pork chop started beating up my coffee, but my coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself!

**dwdougherty** · 09-17-2009, 02:13 PM

Try this link, which provides some context around the Western 12-tone, equal temperament scale:

Equal temperament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**DonnyK** · 09-17-2009, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I'm a huge Tom Waits fan. What does he say on "Nighthawks at the diner"?

My pork chop started beating up my coffee, but my coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself!

About being so horny even the crack of dawn best be careful around me?

EDIT: just seen all of your original post!!

Absolutely love Waits myself

**Joe Dalton** · 09-18-2009, 03:07 AM

People tinkered, thought this particular collection of notes were pleasing and so far, people agree. It wasn't a one shot discovery but something that gradually grew and is still growing.

**timscarey** · 09-18-2009, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by bobsguitars09

What is the Major Scale based on? where does it come from?

In an equal tempered 12-tone system, the ionian or major scale has a dominant chord built on the note a 5th above the root, thus creating the strongest possible resolution of root movement and leading tone to the 1 chord from the 5. that is why the ionian scale is thought of as the tonic scale in the diatonic system.

as for the diatonic system, in a tempered 12-tone system, a scale with 7 notes made up only of half steps and whole steps allows for the most harmonic possibilties, thus leaving either a diatonic or melodic minor system.

to understand the origin of the 12-tone system I suggest "the craft of musical composition" by Paul Hindemith, it's pretty in depth.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-18-2009, 03:58 PM

Whoever chose the Ionian mode to be the MAJOR one got it wrong, or had too sunny a disposition. If you arrange the modes from brightest to darkest there is a self-evident order:

Lydian
Ionian
Mixolydian
Dorian
Aeolian
Phrygian
Locrian

What's at EQ 0? Dorian. That's your natural choice for the neutral MAJOR. You'll have three modes you can go to brighten things
up and three to make things darker,

**timscarey** · 09-18-2009, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Dorian. That's your natural choice for the neutral MAJOR. You'll have three modes you can go to brighten things
up and three to make things darker,

but you can't make a 2 chord sound like home unless you leave the mode. you can only do that with the 1 chord via the 5 chord.

**Jake Hanlon** · 09-18-2009, 05:14 PM

It is to do a lot with Pythatoris(sp) theories on harmonics and disonance vs consonance.

The Ionian Mode has the avoid tone's placed in a way that allows for the most melodic uses without special treatments needed. In Medievil times as mentioned these became Church modes which had a great deal to do with the avoidance of Tritones and the need to have things moving in a stepwise motion.

At least that is some of it.

Also, the white key theory is flawed. Major scales existed in nature long before a Piano was ever concieved.

And what is the relative minor key of C? A.... A minor is the 1st mode in many ways of thinking in music pre 900c because this was not a happy time, much of Sacred (the only institutionalized form of music) was in Minor modes or keys rather then Major modes/keys

At least my limited understanding in those 9am classes when I was asleep remembers.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-18-2009, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by timscarey

but you can't make a 2 chord sound like home unless you leave the mode. you can only do that with the 1 chord via the 5 chord.

Are you talking about leading tone resolution? Gmaj->Cmaj (b->c)

Yes, Dorian doesn't have a major 7th, but you can always do:

Ami7 -> Dmi7 (e->f then d)

Scales without a leading tone have a different feel, but they can still serve as a "home" tonality.

(ps. I'm not entirely serious about rewriting all of western music since 900 CE.)

**timscarey** · 09-18-2009, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Ami7 -> Dmi7 (e->f then d)

Scales without a leading tone have a different feel, but they can still serve as a "home" tonality.

I would argue that the D minor sounds like a 4 chord in that progression. once again, the Ionian is considered the parent scale because there is a dominant chord built on the 5 without any alteration to the scale. the same reason the melodic minor scale is considered the parent scale of that group of modes.

I'm not saying modal music is wrong, I'm just answering the original question.

Jazzarian · 09-18-2009, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by bobsguitars09

What is the Major Scale based on? where does it come from?

It has its advent mere milliseconds after the Big Bang, 14.5 billion years ago.

That's when gravity split off from the other 3 forces, strong, weak, electro-magnetic.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-18-2009, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by timscarey

I would argue that the D minor sounds like a 4 chord in that progression. once again, the Ionian is considered the parent scale because there is a dominant chord built on the 5 without any alteration to the scale. the same reason the melodic minor scale is considered the parent scale of that group of modes.

I'm not saying modal music is wrong, I'm just answering the original question.

What things sound like depends on your expectations. Someone posted a YouTube link about "hearing modes" that demonstrated this. For example, if you play the C major scale:

C D E F G A B C B A G F E D C

you hear C major. If immediately after this you play the E phrygian scale:

E F G A B C D E D C B A G F E

You still hear things in C. It doesn't sound like a phrygian scale. But if you had played C phrygian instread:

C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C Bb Ab G F Eb Db C

You would not hear Ab major, but C phrygian. It all depends on where your expectation of the tonal centre lies.