Major Minor Scale

**Chaz** · 09-04-2009, 12:56 PM

hey is there another name for this scale?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-04-2009, 01:02 PM

I'm slow, so could you give an example of this scale?

**derek** · 09-04-2009, 01:40 PM

Never heard of such a scale before. Can you spell it out or give the formula?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-04-2009, 01:51 PM

Since it's Friday, let's make up scales that could be called "Major Minor":

#1) A B C D E F# G# A G# F# E D C B A

That's just A melodic minor (without reverting to harmonic minor on the way down). Often called "A jazz minor" in jazz.

#2) A B C C# D E F# G# A

That's A major with the minor third added. I don't know another name for it, but I usually think of the minor third as just an added blue note

#3) A B C# D E F G A

That's Mixolydian mode of D jazz minor. You can use it over A7 going into Dmin.

I feel like I'm playing Battle Ship. Any hits?

**JohnW400** · 09-04-2009, 02:17 PM

How about

A C C# E F# For a pentatonic version

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-04-2009, 02:20 PM

And how could I forget the Major Minor Whole Note Scale:

A B C Db Eb F G A

**Zip** · 09-04-2009, 08:30 PM

Cripes, you two guys show off

How about the alphabet scale: ABCDEFGH.
Actually, I read once where Bach (amongst other German composers) used an 'H' note. This was really B, and B was really Bb. That is a major minor talking point don't you think!

**JohnW400** · 09-04-2009, 10:25 PM

Your right. It comes from German notation. I always see it mentioned on the Sibelius help forum. But reading our charts is tough enough.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-05-2009, 01:51 AM

Dmitri Shostakovich also used his name "DSCH" = D Eb C B as a motive in one of his string quartets.

**bird.land** · 09-05-2009, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Dmitri Shostakovich also used his name "DSCH" = D Eb C B as a motive in one of his string quartets.

As did BACH

**FatJeff** · 09-05-2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by bird.land

As did BACH

One of the last pieces he composed, as I understand it. This self-reference is analyzed in great detail in the book "Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid."

**derek** · 09-05-2009, 11:05 AM

So Chaz, did you find anymore information on this scale so we can assist you?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-05-2009, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by derek

So Chaz, did you find anymore information on this scale so we can assist you?

Chaz, as a tip in this forum, and any other, and in life in general: define your terms and give examples. Don't assume others know what you are talking about or can read minds.

**Decapriology1** · 09-06-2009, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Chaz

hey is there another name for this scale?

Yes, there are two: Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor. Other than than that, there is no other known nomenclature. What you are trying to allude to, I would imagine, is the large 7 and the small 3rd...correct? Both scales begin with "minor large" ( min-maj7) voicings. There are many hybridizations involving exotic scales, modes, and fusing of tetrachords, but we do not call anything Major/Minor scale or Minor/major scale. As nomenclature seeking material, we must keep in mind ( in general language) that flat third constitutes minor scale and major third constitutes major scales.

However, there is an exception with "Neapolitan Major" scale which has a flatted third. The "majorness" is dubbed because, as opposed to Neapolitan Minor it has a natural 6th. NM= C, Db, Eb, F, G, A, B, C and Nm= C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab, B, C ***Note, both scales keep a flat third and large seventh as constant.

The above exception may be close to what you are asking about, if you are not simply throwing words together. You can inform us.

Another close encounter with what you may be suggesting is merely a mode of Harmonic minor called: Phrygian Major: C, Db, E, F, G, Ab, Bb, C; and we can notice the similarities with the aforesaid Neapolitans. Eyeing the large 3rd. The b7 confuses the issue away from functioning as major, but the mode (fifth mode of F Harmonic Minor) gets that coined name within some theory-head circles. It is still a mode being glorified ( or looked upon ) as a scale.

Yet another encounter can be Locrian Major: Like the Phrygian Major, it also has a large 3rd, but also has the small 7th and thus confuses the issue as simply major: C, D, E, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, C

As an aside, flat 7ths can be used when blowing against maj7th chords, when in the hands of an experienced player.

Lydian Minor, by the way, also has a natural third. C, D, E, F#, G, Ab, Bb, C.

These scales are not usually taught in schools, but they exist and are used by some musicians. Each scale has subtle alterations and so the similarities should be studied.

This is as close an answer as I can come up with for you. Word concoctions are meaningless in such a case. The actual viewing and listening of the notes is where it's at.

-TD

**jseaberry** · 09-06-2009, 11:34 AM

Well, hello Tony!!!! You guys should listen closely to Mr. Decaprio; he is a fount of experience and knowledge!!

**derek** · 09-06-2009, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by jseaberry

Well, hello Tony!!!! You guys should listen closely to Mr. Decaprio; he is a fount of experience and knowledge!!

Amen.

**Electric Larry** · 09-16-2009, 02:11 AM

If you put a passing tone between the 4th and 5th of a major scale, you will get a major bebop Scale. If you put the passing tone between the 3rd and 4th of a dorian scale, you will get a dorian bebop scale. If you put a passing tone between the 7th and root of a mixolydian scale, you will get a mixolydian bebop scale.

major bebop scale: G A B C C# D E F# G

dorian bebop scale: A B C C# D E F# G A

mixolydian bebop scale: D E F# G A B C C# D

Jazzarian · 09-16-2009, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Decapriology1

Both scales begin with "minor large" ( min-maj7) voicings.

I suspect there's some confusion with mi(maj7) chords and similar sounding scales? All I can think of is the melodic, harmonic and "jazz" minors.

Jazzarian · 09-16-2009, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

And how could I forget the Major Minor Whole Note Scale:

A B C Db Eb F G A

Don't forget the Lydian Major Minor Whole Tone Mode:
Db Eb F G A B C

**Decapriology1** · 09-20-2009, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Electric Larry

If you put a passing tone between the 4th and 5th of a major scale, you will get a major bebop Scale. If you put the passing tone between the 3rd and 4th of a dorian scale, you will get a dorian bebop scale. If you put a passing tone between the 7th and root of a mixolydian scale, you will get a mixolydian bebop scale.

major bebop scale: G A B C C# D E F# G

dorian bebop scale: A B C C# D E F# G A

mixolydian bebop scale: D E F# G A B C C# D

Unrelated to OP. OP speaks of 7 note asymmetrical scales. Chromatic Passing tones create a different aspect and subject matter.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-21-2009, 09:39 AM

I see the original poster Chaz has never returned to this thread to explain himself. Oh well...

**Meggy** · 09-21-2009, 02:57 PM

Having just been reading the Jazz Theory Book, I think the original poster was indeed refering to the melodic minor scale, as it is refered to as a suitable scale to play over a "major-minor" type chord when improvising i.e. a minor triad with a major 7th, as has already been suggested. Having read through the thread, I'm just wondering if the jazz minor scale is the same as the melodic minor. I have always thought this was the case, but now I'm not quite sure, can anyone tell me?

**FatJeff** · 09-21-2009, 03:04 PM

My understanding is that when you just say "melodic minor scale", you are referring to the classical scale where it is melodic minor ascending (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1) and natural minor descending (1 b7 b6 5 4 b3 2 1). The "jazz minor" scale is simply the ascending part of melodic minor both in ascent and descent (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1) and (1 7 6 5 4 b3 2 1).

**Meggy** · 09-21-2009, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

My understanding is that when you just say "melodic minor scale", you are referring to the classical scale where it is melodic minor ascending (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1) and natural minor descending (1 b7 b6 5 4 b3 2 1). The "jazz minor" scale is simply the ascending part of melodic minor both in ascent and descent (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1) and (1 7 6 5 4 b3 2 1).

Of course you're correct FJ, I was being lazy in my use of the term "melodic minor" to mean (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1) both ascending and descending when strictly it does indeed have a b6 and b7 on the way down (I remember this from hated violin lessons as a kid!). But cheers for clearing up the jazz minor thing - it is indeed what I thought it was!