Play what you hear

**pierre richard** · 03-19-2009, 09:53 PM

you have to know where you are going or you will wind up somewhere else...

like joe pass says "play the melody"

we all start out with "safe" patterns that fall within and around the chord forms we learn..

the next step is to forget about the chord and think of the scale only and the tones that are in that scale...humming a melody in your head and transferring that to your fingers..

there is lots of beautiful music to be made by you and is waitng for your ability to proceed to get you there...

time on the instrument..pierre

**davidblair** · 04-04-2009, 08:06 AM

Playing and practicing scales, intervals, licks, is "limiting" to improvisation, etc. by a limited scope of practice. Doing it over and over the same way produces predictable results. I have practiced sometimes like this not recognizing that I was reinforcing mistakes or poor technique.
After many years of violin lessons with some very talented teachers I began learning "music" from a young pianist, A Berklee grad. He showed me the value of knowing scales, modes, and chords by demonstrating how to apply them and create a scene or feeling. Taylor knew the moods and modes...
But the "unlimiting" paragraph in his Berklee textbook enlightened me, defining practice for improvisation as a never ending variation of scales, intervals, modes, chord scales/inversions, combined with every conceivable timing drill and fingering pattern. Overlapping octaves, 24 keys, major, dominant, minors. Metronome!!! Speed drills.

I also try to imagine the lyrics or melody of the tune for a better solo.

I enjoy listening to Mike Marshall, he plays so well I can't tell who it is.

**Paul Dillon** · 05-07-2009, 07:25 AM

I am in the process of trying to cross over into this type of thinking. Like a lot of guitarists I learned to play by copying what I heard on records but as I progressed and got into scales and modes, my playing got more grounded in music theory. For a while this produced good results quickly but I have found it to be a bit of a straight-jacket. When I improvise on the guitar my hands keep falling into safe predictable patterns where my musical knowledge tells me the notes will work OK. Now I am trying to write guitar parts in my head and not pick the guitar up until the part is well and truly stuck there. After all these years of scales and modes I am now trying to think chromatically.

CC323 · 06-04-2009, 10:27 PM

Has anyone here seen Ed Byrne's "Linear Jazz Improvisation"? It seems like an interesting concept to me, from what the sample shows, there are some good ideas in there.

Also, what's the concensus on the Standring course?

**franco6719** · 06-05-2009, 05:19 AM

"But the "unlimiting" paragraph in his Berklee textbook enlightened me"

What? What Berklee textbook are you talking about? When I was Berklee (85 to 88 or so), we didn't have any textbooks. There were just paperbacks,workbooks and hand-outs. I never heard of any of this "unlimiting" material.

**franco6719** · 06-05-2009, 05:27 AM

"i don't personally own any but i've used one or two before. they seem to be pretty helpful but only if you actually have the dedication."

Oh, I have the dedication all right. But it seems to me sometimes that I will be in my seventies (now 41) before I can actually play what I HEAR or HEAR what I play, at this rate.

**artcore** · 06-05-2009, 11:31 AM

i think many great players use scales as warmup exercise and not as much
in improvising..If they do they try and hide it...Years ago I would go to a
club to watch John Abercrombie play..He would be on some nights, other
nights he would struggle..put he didn't fall back on licks often...Metheny
warms up with scales...You can hear a lot of scale like stuff with Metheny. I don't want a jazz guitarist falling back on scales..I would rather he keep trying to tap into somthing even if he fails...

**russellm** · 06-05-2009, 03:24 PM

I've found that the more I focus on theory, the more I "hear" interesting things. What my ear was capable of hearing before is no longer cool enough.

I have no doubt that what Kurt Rosenwinkel (as just one example) hears way deeper music than I hear, and it's largely because he has greater depth of knowledge.

**franco6719** · 06-06-2009, 04:34 AM

I don't hear many scales in Metheny actually. I hear a lot of patterns, licks and arpeggios, definitely, but not just scaly runs like you might hear in Al di Meola of Mclaughlin, or even, to some extent, in Pat Martino.

Pat Martino strikes me as a very horizontal, scale-based bebop player.

**doc** · 06-07-2009, 12:12 AM

Music to me is a language, notes are the letters that make up musical phrases and scores. When I learned morse code it started out as di and dahs sounds, then after awhile they faded I heard letters, then the letters faded and I heard words, then after awhile I heard sentences. I think music is the same way.

doc

**Paul J Edwards** · 06-07-2009, 12:23 AM

If I played what I heard it would sound like my wife naging me, my kids arguing, and dogs barking.
Who wants to hear that!!!

CC323 · 06-07-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by doc

Music to me is a language, notes are the letters that make up musical phrases and scores. When I learned morse code it started out as di and dahs sounds, then after awhile they faded I heard letters, then the letters faded and I heard words, then after awhile I heard sentences. I think music is the same way.

doc

That's a great insight doc. A very influential jazz pianist on my development shares that same opinion. The reason he says that he can transcribe so much more effortlessly than I do is because he's spent years (50+!) playing and listening to melodies and patterns common in jazz. Rather than hearing DFACBGFDCEGBC as single notes, he simply hears it as a(the most?) cliche ii-V-I lick which is as familiar to him as rudimentary english is to most people. This leads me to think that building a massive vocabulary of these licks is the best way to gain expressive freedom. I'm not saying steal 100 Parker licks and solo with those exclusively; It just seems to me that using patterns and other devices is a means of linking the hands and the mind's 'ear', simplifying the process from having to translate individual notes from one's ear to the hands, to hear a pattern or shape one has shedded to the point of it being natural. I don't know, maybe I'm overintellectuallizing this...

Take care,
Chris

**GrooveKing** · 04-06-2010, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by aPAULo

I wish I could play by ear. Even when I try to play by ear, nothing pops into my head or I just end up letting my fingers run off everywhere. I think it probably would take a pretty long time to learn how to really play by ear.

Here is a tip for all of you that have this problem.
Start your playing with one single note and hold it for some time until some kind of melody pops into your head. It is incredible how a single note can be inspiring and open up your imagination much more than a scale or a pattern.
Stay focused and think of what you will play next. That will prevent you from mechanical playing. Another thing. When you hold the note, try to make it last differently each time. For example: you hold a note for two whole notes and one half note before you move to another note. Next time try 2 whole notes and a quarter not, then a sixteenth etc.
Hope that helps. It helped me a lot.

**cosmic gumbo** · 04-06-2010, 05:28 PM

I used to jam with a kid named Johnny one-note. Guess why we called him that?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 04-06-2010, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I used to jam with a kid named Johnny one-note. Guess why we called him that?

His given name was "John"?

**franco6719** · 04-07-2010, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by Paul J Edwards

If I played what I heard it would sound like my wife naging me, my kids arguing, and dogs barking.
Who wants to hear that!!!

**franco6719** · 04-07-2010, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by CC323

That's a great insight doc. A very influential jazz pianist on my development shares that same opinion. The reason he says that he can transcribe so much more effortlessly than I do is because he's spent years (50+!) playing and listening to melodies and patterns common in jazz. Rather than hearing DFACBGFDCEGBC as single notes, he simply hears it as a(the most?) cliche ii-V-I lick which is as familiar to him as rudimentary english is to most people. This leads me to think that building a massive vocabulary of these licks is the best way to gain expressive freedom. I'm not saying steal 100 Parker licks and solo with those exclusively; It just seems to me that using patterns and other devices is a means of linking the hands and the mind's 'ear', simplifying the process from having to translate individual notes from one's ear to the hands, to hear a pattern or shape one has shedded to the point of it being natural. I don't know, maybe I'm overintellectuallizing this...

Take care,
Chris

Yes, I agree with this. You actually start hearing whole patterns, cliche's, arpeggios, etc, common stylistic tendencies, phrasing of some particular musician, chord progressions rather than individual voicings, etc.. Transcriptions, "copping licks" and playing along with recordings is the way you really learn this language, without worrying so much about "abstracted" ear training exercises that focus on three of four random intervals. It may be that both approaches have their place though.

**doc** · 04-16-2010, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Paul J Edwards

If I played what I heard it would sound like my wife naging me, my kids arguing, and dogs barking.
Who wants to hear that!!!

Ok, the music is to the beholder.....imagination.......or maybe reality.

**hubert54** · 04-17-2010, 03:24 AM

there is a lot of "truth" in this question. "Noise" is around everywhere, very difficult to "play".
But without ears, hm -

**Jazzguitarsussx** · 12-24-2012, 01:27 PM

Is there a book version with cd of the play what you hear course?

**doc** · 12-24-2012, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by CC323

That's a great insight doc. A very influential jazz pianist on my development shares that same opinion. The reason he says that he can transcribe so much more effortlessly than I do is because he's spent years (50+!) playing and listening to melodies and patterns common in jazz. Rather than hearing DFACBGFDCEGBC as single notes, he simply hears it as a(the most?) cliche ii-V-I lick which is as familiar to him as rudimentary english is to most people. This leads me to think that building a massive vocabulary of these licks is the best way to gain expressive freedom. I'm not saying steal 100 Parker licks and solo with those exclusively; It just seems to me that using patterns and other devices is a means of linking the hands and the mind's 'ear', simplifying the process from having to translate individual notes from one's ear to the hands, to hear a pattern or shape one has shedded to the point of it being natural. I don't know, maybe I'm overintellectuallizing this...

Take care,
Chris

No Chris, its all intellectual and there are many different ways to articulate the experience. BTW, I like what you wrote and agree with every word. Its music tools being created by each people to advance the music experience, its what humans do really well!