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  1. #1

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    THE SECRETS OT THE AUGMENTED SCALE

    Two augmented triads T 3 5+ and 9+ 5 7 are making this scale

    In C :C E G# Eb G B or T 9+ 3 5 5+ 7

    It’s a symmetrical scale that could be named a minor third-half step scale:
    CEb EbE EG GG# G#B BC

    It’s an hexatonic scale with a repeating sequence of minor seconds and minor thirds:
    EbE GG# BC
    CEb EG G#B

    It contains
    6 augmented triads C+ Eb+ E+ G+ Ab+ B+
    3 major triads C E Ab
    3 minor triads Cm Em Abm

    As this scale has 3 tonals centers and divide the octave into three equal parts,therefore,there are 4 mutually exclusive augmented scales:

    I/ C augmented scale=E augmented scale=Ab augmented scale
    II/ Db aug scale=F aug scale=A aug scale
    III D aug scale=F# aug scale=Bb aug scale
    IV/ Eb aug scale=G aug scale=B aug scale

    The fingerings of this scale are quite easy ,and well described by Matt Warnock:

    How To Solo Over Maj7#5 Chords


    I SUBSTITUTION OF DOMINANT MODES BY THE AUGMENTED SCALE

    The altered mode (VII mode of the MelodicMinor Scale) and the Lydian dominant mode (IVth mode of the Melodic minor Scale) can be substituted by an Augmented Scale:
    This Augmented Scale will be at the Tonic, major third or augmented 5th of the name(Tonic) of the mode
    -Ab7 altered of A melodic minor Scale can be replaced by a Ab or C or E augmented scale
    C Eb E G Ab B, or T 9+ 3 5 5+ 7

    -D7#11is replaced by D or F# or Bb augmented Scale
    D F F# A Bb Eb, or T 9+ 3 5 5+ b9

    II SUBSTITUTION OF MAJOR MODES BY THE AUGMENTED SCALE

    The Major Scale is substituted by a Augmented Scale at the Tonic, major third or augmented 5th of his Tonic,as well commented by Matt Warnock.

    III SUBSTITUTION OF MINOR AND LOCRIANS MODES BY THE AUGMENTED SCALE

    a)Minor Mode

    Cminor Mode can be substituted by a Augmented Scale beginning at the minor third (Eb),perfect fifth (G) or Major 7th (B) of the name of his Tonic.

    Beginning at the minor third, by exemple Eb Augmented Scale,it will give: b3,b7,7,11+,5,9,b3,b7,7,11+,5 on C minor

    b)Locrian Mode

    A D Locrian Mode can be substituted by an Augmented Scale beginning,as for a minor mode, at his minor third, perfect fifth or major seventh.
    Replace a D Locrian by a F Augmented Scale, A Augmented Scale or Db Augmented Scale


    IV CONNECTION BETWEEN THE COLTRANE CYCLE AND THE TRIADS OF THE AUGMENTED SCALE

    I encourage you to read this excellent article made by Chris Parrello :

    http://www.chrisbuono.com/wp-content...9/JJG_0207.pdf

    Take a Coltrane cycle in C major by exemple:

    C Eb7 Ab B7 E Eb7 Ab B7 E G7 C

    Now ,replace the V7 of this Cycle by the 3 minor triads of a Caugmented Scale: Cm,Abm and Em
    You got:
    C Cm Ab Abm E Em Ab Abm E Em C

    There is no “clash”to comp with those triads of the Augmented Scale during a Coltrane Cycle because those 3 minor triads can replace the 3 V7 by the mechanism of polytonality:

    a V7 can be replaced ,among others options,by a minor triad beginning on the sixth degree of the Tonic:

    aTriad Cm can replace Eb7 = it gives on Eb7 :13 T 3
    aTriad Abm can replace B7 = 13 T 3
    aTriad Em can replace G7 = 13 T 3

    Now, substitute all the minor triads in the triadic sequence of the Augmented Scale by their relative Majors:
    Cm by Eb
    Abm by B
    Em by G

    You return on a Coltrane Cycle where the Dominant are replaced by theirMajor Triads:
    C Eb Ab B E Eb Ab B E G C

    Take the exercices proposed by Chris Parrello,and get some ideas to improvise on Giant Steps by mixing the Coltrane Cycle and the Triadic cycles ob the Augmented Scale.
    I give you some short ideas to improvise on Giant Steps, but in the C tonality as choosed in the Parrello paper:

    / TrC Eb75+ TrCm / Tr Ab B13 Tr Abm / TrE Tr Em G7 / Eb7 TrCm / TrAb B7 TrAbm / TrE Db7 TrEm / C.


    Cheers
    HB
    Last edited by Hyppolyte Bergamotte; 04-16-2015 at 07:29 AM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2
    destinytot Guest
    This looks like a really useful post - thank you, HB!

  4. #3

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    Excellent info. I'll have to do some shedding with these ideas. Thanks!

  5. #4

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    F##$ just when I thought I knew everything some #$## jazz musician has to come along and point out there is yet another scale I am not using. Curse you!

  6. #5
    destinytot Guest
    I've read about applications of this scale, but it didn't make sense to me because it was overwhelming.

    I think you've done an excellent job of breaking it down, HB, and you've made great use of links. Your post is one of those special cases where it's useful to press Ctrl + P, save as PDF and print so I can study it at the piano. I'm still on the first page, but I like what I'm hearing. (I wouldn't call myself a 'modernist', although I did rather enjoy being called a 'hipster' the other day... as Mr Waller put it, "One never knows, do one?")

  7. #6

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    abomination ! Guitarzen !
    cheers
    HB

  8. #7

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    Hi destinytot!

    If something seems overwhelming for me,I have the habit to break it in little pieces in order to betterunderstand.

    HB

  9. #8
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyppolyte Bergamotte
    Hi destinytot!

    If something seems overwhelming for me,I have the habit to break it in little pieces in order to better understand.

    HB
    I work that way, too - but have so much on my plate that I doubt whether I'd ever have bothered looking into this scale had it not been for the excellent job you've done in presenting it in manageable chunks.

    Instead of being overwhelming, this an adventure; it's fun. And neither is it putting too much on my plate: "If you want something done, give it to a busy person."

    Nice one, HB!

  10. #9

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    Thanks Hyppolyte. Love your contributions.

    I have been reading an old blog post about doing an extended study of coltrane changes and this fits right in.

    Ever Up and Onward: Countdown to Giant Steps

    The Matt Warnock article is attached as a pdf just in case like me you are printing all this to put on the music stand.

  11. #10

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    and to take the augmented scale a few steps further into the far reaches of symmetric harmony..blend it with the diminished scale...

    this is a very insightful read for those that feel .. there must be a way to NOT get lost in a solo....

    Augmented Scale Theory ? Javier Arau


    also..a slight correction in the post..I encourage you to read this excellent article made by Chris Parrello :

    http://www.chrisbuono.com/wp-content...9/JJG_0207.pdf

    in example 2 the last G to E note...the tab should read 10 7 not 7 10
    Last edited by wolflen; 04-14-2015 at 01:13 PM. Reason: correction in posted link

  12. #11

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    Always a pleasure to hear from you,lumena.


    Thanks for the blog of Mac Donald.
    You saw that Trane used the Augmented scale in his division of the Octave!

    Trane divides the octave into 3 equal parts. In the key of C this looks like:

    C --- Ab --- E --- C

    Think of these as tonal centers (or key areas) descending by major thirds. A progression is formed by preceding each tonal center with its dominant (V7). Theorists call this "tonicization".

    John Coltrane superimposed this harmonic cycle into existing, commonly played tunes within the jazz repertoire.
    I think the Coltrane Cycle is in fact an extended II V I pattern:

    If you substitute in bar 1 the Tonic B,by his IIm7,you got :

    /C#m7 D7/G Bb7 /Eb F#7/B

    Applying the triads of the Augmented scale is a key to enter in the Trane Universe
    Cheers
    HB

  13. #12

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    Kollosal Wolflen !!!

    HB

  14. #13
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    and to take the augmented scale a few steps further into the far reaches of symmetric harmony..blend it with the diminished scale...

    this is a very insightful read for those that feel .. there must be a way to NOT get lost in a solo....

    Augmented Scale Theory ? Javier Arau
    Thank you! This really is a great thread.

    I hope it's cool to post this - I'm intrigued by the idea of blending small-group swing with a more modern language, like Branford does from about 1m20:

  15. #14

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    Thanks so much for this great insight!!!!

  16. #15

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    So unfortunately, they cut out the standards that he played, maybe for copyright reasons I guess. But Sco played some killer solo guitar at the end of this fantastic interview. Including a piece that I believe is just him riffing on the augmented scale.

    Fast forward to 39:30...the whole interview is great. But if you just want to hear the tune. It's killer.

  17. #16

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    IMPORTANT FOR THE UNMINDFULS !

    Don't forget that all the explanations of Matt Warlock in his G exemples,could also be applied to B augmented scale or Eb augmented scale.

    Why?
    Cause the symmetry of this scale :
    G augmented scale= B augmented scale= D# (Eb) augmented scale

    Economy! 3 scale patterns for the price of one


    HB

  18. #17

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    II V7 Imaj7,with V7 as triads od an Augmented scale

    Let's take A Augmented scale (or F or Db augmented,they are symmetrics) as a dominant scale:
    We have 3 possibilities in a II V I movment:

    Em/A7/Dmaj7
    Cm/F7/Bbmaj7
    Abm/Db7/Gbmaj7

    Now,we replace A7 F7 and Db7 with triads of theAugmented scale of A , F or Db

    Em/ C+ Db F A / Dmaj7
    Cm/ C+A Db F / Bbmaj7
    Abm/ C+ A F Db / Gbmaj7

    It works well if you place the last triad before the maj7 a perfect fifth above the Imaj7

    cheers
    HB

  19. #18

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    Minor augmented,played by triads

    Play a minor augmented scale by a sucession of desending or ascendings augmented and major triads at a minor third,a perfect fifth and a major seventh of the name of the minor chord

    Exemple

    Db minor augmented:

    triads:
    Ab/ Ab+ /C/ C+/ E/ E+/

    it gives:

    Ab /AbCEb= 5 7 9
    Ab+/AbCE =5 7b 3
    C /CEG =7 b3 11+
    C+/CEAb =7 b3 5
    E/EAbB = b3 5 b7
    E+/EAbC =b3 5 7
    HB
    Last edited by Hyppolyte Bergamotte; 04-17-2015 at 04:29 AM.

  20. #19

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    HB yep...your seeing the beginning of the "great Mandela"

    lets meld the diminished tonics (C Eb Gb A) in some augmented chords (C E Ab)

    using the ii7 V7 chords of each dim tonic to resolve into the augmented tonic chords

    Fm7 Bb7 C minor 3rd sub
    Dmi7 G7 C diatonic
    Bmi7 E7 C major sixth sub
    Abmi7 Db7 C the ol tri-tone trick

    do the same for E augmented and then Ab aug

    Ami7 D7 E etc

    note the ii7 V7 are a minor 3rd apart(dim cycle)

    now add extensions to all chords Mi9/11 dom 9/13 Ma9 6/9 13 etc ..use inversions and wide voicings

    then mix and match some of the progressions..review Coltrane changes for insight...there will be a lot of "(ah Haa) moments...have fun
    Last edited by wolflen; 04-16-2015 at 10:28 PM.

  21. #20

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    That's great stuff.
    Thanks guys.

  22. #21

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    Ok Wolf

    I follow you easily.

    You're applying the minor third cycle(dim cycle) to the 3 tonics of C+: C,E and Ab,with their 4 possible II V subs.

    Let's take,ie,the following Coltrane Cycle in C:

    Dm Eb7/Ab B7/E Eb7/Ab B7/E G7/C

    You could replace that ,inter alia,by the following progression:

    Dm9 C#m /C+ C7#11 /Ab+ A79+ /E+ Ebm /C+G7alt/C

    and so on,with so many possibilities.

    What embarrase me,that's those Coltrane cycles are traditionnaly so quickly played by all those sax players,that all those beautiful shades don't have the time to be played on guitar.Me,anyway.I'm not a guitar virtuoso with one thousand notes/sec .
    That's why I prefer to play rapid tunes"à la Trane" with triads only.
    If the song is not so quick,then I play as you advise

    cheers
    HB
    Last edited by Hyppolyte Bergamotte; 04-17-2015 at 07:14 AM.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyppolyte Bergamotte
    What embarrase me,that's those Coltrane cycles are traditionnaly so quickly played by all those sax players,that all those beautiful shades don't have the time to be played on guitar.
    Pat Metheney does a wonderful slow version of Giant Steps. It's a little jarring at first to hear it so slow, but once you get used to it, it's lovely to hear him stretch out on those changes.

  24. #23

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    HB

    yep...but the Coltrane changes (Giant Steps) -- taken out of tempo/song structure..and just look at the changes and the possibilities. You quickly get overwhelmed..just by the cycle of subs that are produced..and the scale possibilities are almost endless..using the tri-tone scale as a sub alone gives you many ideas..

    CM7 Dm7 Em7 Bb7 EbM7 Ab6 CM7

    CM7 Dm7 Em7 Bb7 EbM7 Ab13 Db-triad.wide voiced...C triad wide voiced

    now both the Ab (flat 6th) and the tri-tone (Db) both resolve nicely to the C

    TriTone scale from D dim(G7b9)...D E F G Ab Bb B Db -- tri tone scales can be built on the 2 4 6 8th degree of Dim scale

    E F Ab Bb B D
    1 b2 3 b5 5 b7
    now you have two tri-chords E F Ab (1 b2 3)and Bb B D (1b2 3) ... these are what the augmented scale is made of--

    ahh the Augmented scale..E G Ab B C Eb--see any tri-chords here..

    G Ab B -1 b2 3 Eb E G - 1 b2 3

    for me I use the tri-tone scale for both Dim & Aug chords..

    have fun...

  25. #24

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    eye on this one.

  26. #25

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    Hey Wolf !

    Inter-relations between 4T and 3T systems
    I took 2 full days to learn his theory,and I succeed !!

    Augmented Scale Theory ? Javier Arau

    Maybe,i'll share it in a post,cause certains points are not explained,ie (013)trichords, (014)trichords,or eluded for beginners in Harmony
    cheers
    HB

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyppolyte Bergamotte
    Hey Wolf !

    Inter-relations between 4T and 3T systems
    I took 2 full days to learn his theory,and I succeed !!

    Augmented Scale Theory ? Javier Arau

    Maybe,i'll share it in a post,cause certains points are not explained,ie (013)trichords 1-b2 b3 scale degree in diminished (four tonic system) scale---, (014)trichords, (1 b2 3) scale degrees in augmented (three tonic system) or eluded for beginners in Harmony
    cheers
    HB
    It took me a bit to see the relevance .but write out the scales dim and aug..and you will find the scale degrees embedded .. see my post above for the augmented scale breakdown

  28. #27

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    you did understand me
    I have all understood
    The point is,should I comment different points in his article that are not well explained by him for our community
    cheers
    HB

  29. #28

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    HB

    It took me several readings over a couple of weeks of Arau to put together a basic picture of what he is saying..so its not for basic beginners..(Coltrane changes alone scare some pros!)

    to realize that the diminished and augmented scales and their use is one of the most confusing aspects in music..for guitarists--an occasional diminished chord and its use in minor thirds is about as far as most delve into their function and use..the term symmetric is lost on many..

    now im using the progressions and "thinking" of this type of stuff on my own compositions-so I can make them fit .. to fit it into a "standard" lets say..would be almost an engineering task..you may be able to re-harmonize a tune using Part of some of this type stuff .. but your not going to be able to fit it in your every day pop/rock/or even fusion pieces without some careful foresight..

    so while this information is good to share..so is quantum theory..hope you see my point..

    pointing out the embedded chords in these scales is a good beginning as many have not seen this analysis in these scales..then the use as subs may be the next "eye opener" ..

    melding the dim and aug scales together may be for those who have an appetite for advanced jazz theory..

    do try though..see what kind of feedback you get

  30. #29

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    Wolf
    I'm also Sure that this theory is not made for standards but well for prepared compositions;otherwhise you would have to change deeply the harmonic progressions of those Classic standards.

    As you said,the 3 possible subs of II V in the 4T theory coming from the diminished scale would be a good beginning to make a post.
    After maybe,the trichords 014 of the Augmented scale and 013 of the diminished scale


    When he reveals the 4T C system from the C diminished scale,I think It should have been possible to do that also and easier with the help of the Ab diminished scale,as This scale does give the same results concerning the II V subs toward C.
    Moreover,Ab ,as he said,is a link between 3T and 4 T scales...
    HB
    Last edited by Hyppolyte Bergamotte; 04-22-2015 at 06:34 PM.

  31. #30

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    Can someone post the different ways that this information is useable to Jazz improvisation? I mean apart from it's use in Coltrane changes.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Can someone post the different ways that this information is useable to Jazz improvisation? I mean apart from it's use in Coltrane changes.
    ok..first..please re-read this entire post ..there is a lot of info posted so go slowly..you should be able to pick up a few ideas .. now if your not familiar with diminished and augmented scales and all the chords that are embedded within them..do some research..again in this post you will find some keys to unlock the scales..


    example: the diminished scale

    C D Eb F Gb Ab A B
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 6 7

    you will find chords from the 2 4 6 (not the flat6!) & 8th degree of this scale you will have Dmi Fmi Abmi Bmi..now also in the scale are the b7th note of these chords..so you now have Dmi7 Fmi7 etc..and in the scale is the Major 3rd of these chords--so now you have D7 F7 etc..and you can alter the D7 into a D7b5..because the scale also has the flat fifth of these chords..and because the 7b5 is a tri-tone chord..in the diminished scale you have two tri-tone scales-the are 6note scales (hexatonic)

    D Eb Gb Ab A C--D7b5 is also Ab7b5 so this scale covers both chords..the other triton scale is:

    F Gb A B C Eb -- F7b5 & B7b5...

    and there is more!!

    so in the place of a dim chord or a 7b9 chord try some runs using any the arpeggios of these chords instead or my fave is the tritone scale is has the essence of the dim scale but its not so predictable..

    hope this helps

  33. #32

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    princeplanet68961]Can someone post the different ways that this information is useable to Jazz improvisation? I mean apart from it's use in Coltrane changes.

    ok..first..please re-read this entire post ..there is a lot of info posted so go slowly..you should be able to pick up a few ideas .. now if your not familiar with diminished and augmented scales and all the chords that are embedded within them..do some research..again in this post you will find some keys to unlock the scales..


    example: the diminished scale

    C D Eb F Gb Ab A B
    1-2 -3 -4-5-- 6-7-8
    1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 6 7

    you will find chords from the 2 4 6 (not the flat6!) & 8th degree of this scale you will have Dmi Fmi Abmi Bmi..now also in the scale are the b7th note of these chords..so you now have Dmi7 Fmi7 etc..and in the scale is the Major 3rd of these chords--so now you have D7 F7 etc..and you can alter the D7 into a D7b5..because the scale also has the flat fifth of these chords..and because the 7b5 is a tri-tone chord..in the diminished scale you have two tri-tone scales-the are 6note scales (hexatonic)

    D Eb Gb Ab A C--D7b5 is also Ab7b5 so this scale covers both chords..the other triton scale is:

    F Gb A B C Eb -- F7b5 & B7b5...

    and there is more!!

    so in the place of a dim chord or a 7b9 chord try some runs using any the arpeggios of these chords instead or my fave is the tritone scale is has the essence of the dim scale but its not so predictable..

    hope this helps

  34. #33

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    I guess I'm a little bewildered by the Javier Arau article and wonder if it's worth investing a dozen hours or so just to get my head around it. The opening post gives some interesting usage ideas in Dom, Maj and Min situations, but get the impression some people who use these pitch collections rely on them for inter key excursions in ways that might be of interest.

    Basically I'm too lazy () to break it all down and am hoping that someone has decoded it in such a way as to explain how they use this knowledge. Eg- do you use it contexts such as Blues or Standards, or more for non functional harmony or modal based tunes?

  35. #34

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    prince..

    yes its a bit of work to see all the implications of this kind of stuff..but to me its worth it..

    your question on context..for me playing over a blues progression of any kind is wonderful..as your not bound by any restrictions at all..except for resolution of course..

    with standards you have to be a bit more careful..but even here..seeing a group of chords as "one" chord and playing over them with this kind of concept brings a sense of freedom in my playing that I have worked long to have..

    and of course "non-functional" harmony..fusion for example..is a green light to experiment on the spot..

    small example..Progression.. CMa7 Dmi7 Emi7 CMA...if I were to solo over this..I see it as one chord..CMA .. now I can use fragments from the C Aug scale..notes E Eb B Ab G Eb E..or use the E/Bb tritone scale that is embedded in the D diminished scale.. E F Ab Bb B D ... now this will sound cool over the Emi7 also as it has flat five flavors and ends on the b7th of the Emi..then I could resolve back to the tonic with the G tritone-G Ab B Db D F..with G7 flavors move right back to CMA..

  36. #35

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    good information, I'll check it out.

  37. #36

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    The classic Sears & Robuck bridge on "I Got Rhythm" in Bb

    | D7 | D7 | G7 | G7 |
    | C7 | C7 | F7 | F7 | to Bb

    Becomes:

    | A-7 D7 | Eb-7 Ab7 | D-7 G7 | Ab-7 Db7 |
    | G-7 C7 | C#-7 F#7 | C-7 F7 | F#-7 B7 | to Bb

  38. #37

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    With symmetrical scales you can play them whenever you want, sort of like adding a dash of special effects. You don't have to place the correctly with the underlying harmony, although you can (on a V7 chord is an obvious spot). Their symmetrical quality alone makes them listenable over most any harmony, imo. It's a simple organized way to play outside briefly. You can play "symmetrical intervals" and not have to worry about "outlining" or "associating" too much with the harmony, that over complicates the simplicity of symmetry. My favorite players use it in small tasteful doses and then come back "inside",.
    Last edited by rintincop; 09-21-2015 at 04:06 PM.

  39. #38

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    am hoping that someone has decoded it in such a way as to explain how they use this knowledge.
    Hi Princeplanet !

    I opened this post.

    On the advice of Wolflen,I studied for a few months the Javier Arau theory.
    I'll try to decode for you very basically the 4 principal points wich ensue from his theory,IMO.

    1
    replace a V7 by an Augmented Scale on the b9, 9+,5+ or b7 of the name of the v7 chord

    take G7 play Ab Augmented Scale;you got: 11 5+ 13 T b9 3
    or play Bb Augmented Scale; you got:9+ 11+ 5 b7 7 9
    or play Eb Augmented Scale;you got:T 9+ 3 5 5+ 7
    or play F Augmented Scale;you got: 9 11 11+ 13 b7 b9
    2
    Replace a IIm by an Augmented Scale of the same Tonic

    take Dm7 ;if you play the D Augmented Scale on Dm7,you got: T b3 3 5 b6 7

    3
    a IIm chord has common extensions with the Augmented scale on the 9, b5, and b7 of the name of the chord

    take a Fm chord.Play on this chord the G,B or Eb Augmented Scale;you got: 9 11 11+ 13 b7, b9

    4
    bVI major and minor are "structural chords; You can replace the 4 dominants of a Major Root (original diatonic, minor6 substitution, subdominant minor subs and tritonic subs ) by those chords or arpeggios

    play Dm/Ab maj /C or Dm/Abmin/C
    You'll see that the the bVI min is ,in fact, the altered scale

    cheers
    HB
    Last edited by Hyppolyte Bergamotte; 09-22-2015 at 01:55 PM.

  40. #39

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    HB...thanks for the tip of the hat..

    key point in symmetric harmony-don't make it more difficult than it has to be..reduce duplication and enharmonic reference

    In regard to the diminished scale..There are only 3 scales C Db D..now within them are ALL diminished scales by other root names..that is for C dim-Eb Gb and A diminished are included and the notes are the same (inversions if you will).but at different starting points..so to those just beginning to study this type of theory it seems much less confusing if you apply just the C diminished nomenclature to the function.

    Same logic to the remaining diminished scales

    Db diminished is also E G and Bb diminished


    D diminished is also F Ab and B diminished

    notice that ALL twelve tones of the chromatic scale are included in these three dim scale roots - as we become more familiar with these scales and start playing them in different positions and in different inversions the root name will have a more logical reason to be used..and as we delve deeper into all the embedded chords in the diminished scale- it is a great benefit to make things less complicated to grasp a difficult concept


    Now--this is my take (and some others that have explored this kind of thing..and I get some flack about it..)

    The whole/half half/whole diminished scale thing...OK..the C diminished scale starting on C is called a whole/half dim scale

    If it starts on B it is called a half/whole B diminished scale - this of course creates an additional 12 diminished scales and fingering and - well a lot of very confused (and frustrated players)

    so NO it is NOT a B diminished scale..it is the C diminished scale - starting on the B note..(you have just reduced confusion by 12 diminished scales) suddenly the fingering/positions/inversions do NOT have to be relearned..just as starting a G major scale on F# does not change the name of the scale-it is G Major..and all the positions and inversions now are just one note away from what you already know and identify by name G major!

    now apply this type of logic to the augmented scales and theory

    now we have only four augmented scales C Db D Eb and the inversions of each scale
    C aug includes E and G#/Ab scales
    Db aug includes F and A
    D aug includes F# and Bb
    Eb aug includes G and B

    again..note all 12 chromatic notes are included in these scales

    so my suggestion is for someone just beginning to study this type of stuff use just the name of the Four aug scales to begin with..and as you become more familiar with using them and their inversions-and their names will be far easier to see the logic for doing so..it will be far less confusing in the beginning..

    ok..this is just my take..you may have a very different approach..and it is just as valid..

  41. #40

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    Thanks all, I can't wait to find a few spare hours to tinker with this stuff. Meanwhile, could anyone point to specific examples of it's usege in recordings?

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Thanks all, I can't wait to find a few spare hours to tinker with this stuff. Meanwhile, could anyone point to specific examples of it's usege in recordings?
    Herbie Hancock - Survival of the Fittest about 2:00. Freddie Hubbard plays the 3 triads lick.

    There's a Wayne Shorter recording with James Spalding on alto where James plays the same lick, but I forgot which one it is.

    If you check Brecker you'll come across it too, but I don't remember the titles (My roommate when I was studying had all the Brecker Cd's I only have one..)

    Jens

    Edit: he is called James Spaulding, and it's in the alto solo of the Soothsayer
    Last edited by JensL; 09-23-2015 at 02:30 PM.

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by JensL
    Herbie Hancock - Survival of the Fittest about 2:00. Freddie Hubbard plays the 3 triads lick.

    There's a Wayne Shorter recording with James Spalding on alto where James plays the same lick, but I forgot which one it is.

    If you check Brecker you'll come across it too, but I don't remember the titles (My roommate when I was studying had all the Brecker Cd's I only have one..)

    Jens

    Edit: he is called James Spaulding, and it's in the alto solo of the Soothsayer
    Cool thanks. Any guitar players?

  44. #43

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    Eef Albers, my old teacher, used it quite often in concerts but I don't have a recording of it.

    Jens

  45. #44

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    Regarding point I: are you seriously saying that when the piano player hits an altered chord, you play a scale with a natural fifth and a major seventh?

    Also, John Taylor (RIP) is the guy to check out for augmented harmony. Ambleside Days for example.

  46. #45

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    Progression.. CMa7 Dmi7 Emi7 CMA...if I were to solo over this..I see it as one chord..CMA .. now I can use fragments from the C Aug scale..notes E Eb B Ab G Eb E..or use the E/Bb tritone scale that is embedded in the D diminished scale.. E F Ab Bb B D ... now this will sound cool over the Emi7 also as it has flat five flavors and ends on the b7th of the Emi..
    Read a very good post relative of the use of the tritone scale for the 4 V7 dominants of the minor third Cycle and for the minor chords in the blog of saxophonist Bob Hartig !:

    The Tritone Scale

    HB
    Last edited by Hyppolyte Bergamotte; 09-25-2015 at 05:36 AM.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyppolyte Bergamotte
    Read a very good post relative of the use of the tritone scale for the 4 V7 dominants of the minor third Cycle and for the minor chords in the blog of saxophonist Bob Hartig !:

    The Tritone Scale

    HB

    HB

    Been a fan of Hartig (Stormchaser) for years..love sax lines..the triad exercise is very cool..lots of connecting points to just about everything..

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    HB

    Been a fan of Hartig (Stormchaser) for years..love sax lines..the triad exercise is very cool..lots of connecting points to just about everything..
    The scale is in fact a pair of triads with no common notes so everything you know/use from that concept can be applied to it, and also the other way around, so you can use his examples on all your triad pair stuff

    Jens

  49. #48
    I've been studying this thread since about November and read the Javier Arau paper many times since then at all hours of day and night with insomnia. Is anyone from this original thread still active?

    I have tons of questions and can't seem to give up...

  50. #49

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    Some of us are still around ... Maybe try and ask the questions and see who responds. I still have a couple myself!

  51. #50

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    I find this thread overwhelming. I see the augmented scale pattern in much simpler terms.

    There are to symmetrical augmented scales. There harmonies are parallel augmented triads.
    I play it over Dominant seventh chords for that special effect.
    It is a "special effects" scale in my mind, it creates a certain mood. It gets boring quickly.
    I can use it when I want that mood during an episode of free play.