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  1. #201

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    I thought Barry Harris taught harmonic minor without calling it that...

    D-7b5 play descending scale: Ab G F Eb D C B

    G7 b9 same as above

    C- tonic play C D Eb F G G# A (B)

    So isn’t that in other words harmonic minor over the ii and the V? Yes
    And then on the minor tonic play the minor major scale (MM) with added #5 (Of course BH calls that the 6th dim scale)

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  3. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop View Post
    I thought Barry Harris taught harmonic minor without calling it that...

    D-7b5 play descending scale: Ab G F Eb D C B

    G7 b9 same as above

    C- tonic play C D Eb F G G# A (B)

    So isn’t that in other words harmonic minor over the ii and the V? Yes
    And then on the minor tonic play the minor major scale (MM) with added #5 (Of course BH calls that the 6th dim scale)
    Nah boss

    On Dm7b5, we relate to Bb7. We play Bb7 scale (which is the same notes as C natural minor)

    On the G7b9, we run the Bb7 scale to the third of G7.

    This can turn in the harmonic minor, but actually as I now understand it but really it's more like you take the dominant shit you've worked out (because basically you should have spent about 18 months coming up with cool bop shit to play on dominant chords without bothering with other chord qualities) and be able to run it into a minor chord using the dim7 on third of the G7 chord...

    Or use the tritone of course.

    Tonic minor is correct. You could also think of that scale as a harmonic minor with an added 6... Which is actually how I view it... I see the 6 as a colour tone on the tonic chord.

    C harmonic minor can be broken into C minor triad + B dim 7 chord.
    C min-6 dim is Cm6 + B dim 7 chord

  4. #203

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    On Dm7b5, we relate to Bb7. We play Bb7 scale (which is the same notes as C natural minor)
    got it , yes , Jaco mentioned that's how he thought of B-7b5

    Thats interesting , do you ever think of it as the 'back door'

    On the G7b9, we run the Bb7 scale to the third of G7.
    Could you illuminate that a bit ?
    slightly confused ..... the third of G7 is B natural innit ?

  5. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu View Post
    got it , yes , Jaco mentioned that's how he thought of B-7b5

    Thats interesting , do you ever think of it as the 'back door'



    Could you illuminate that a bit ?
    slightly confused ..... the third of G7 is B natural innit ?
    It’s a Barry Harris idea - you play a Bb7 scale descending from the 7th note (Ab) but end on a B (third of G7) instead of a Bb. This gives a nice fit over a minor turnaround i.e. Dm7b5 to G7. It also works over a G7.

    Check out the YouTube channel ‘things I’ve learned from Barry Harris’. He covers all this stuff really well.

  6. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by pingu View Post
    Could you illuminate that a bit ?
    slightly confused ..... the third of G7 is B natural innit ?
    Non-devotees of Barry Harris will often dismissively refer to this as "just harmonic minor", and it sort of is on a technical level (V7b9 from HM starring on the b9 and descending to the 3rd).

    But there's a lot more to it than that. First of all, it's the simplest way to learn to play HM over that change, as a beginner, period. It stacks those seven notes in that smaller interval which avoids the augmented 2nd, it's really easy to hear and play, and most of all, it gets you playing minor without any extra theory really. It's beautifully simple.

  7. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Non-devotees of Barry Harris will often dismissively refer to this as "just harmonic minor", and it sort of is on a technical level (V7b9 from HM starring on the b9 and descending to the 3rd).

    But there's a lot more to it than that. First of all, it's the simplest way to learn to play HM over that change, as a beginner, period. It stacks those seven notes in that smaller interval which avoids the augmented 2nd, it's really easy to hear and play, and most of all, it gets you playing minor without any extra theory really. It's beautifully simple.
    Also you can solo on that progression just using the dominant language you already have without having to learn a bunch of new harmonic minor stuff

  8. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu View Post
    got it , yes , Jaco mentioned that's how he thought of B-7b5

    Thats interesting , do you ever think of it as the 'back door'
    Yes it’s the same thing.

    As is minor plagal.

  9. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    It’s a Barry Harris idea - you play a Bb7 scale descending from the 7th note (Ab) but end on a B (third of G7) instead of a Bb. This gives a nice fit over a minor turnaround i.e. Dm7b5 to G7. It also works over a G7.

    Check out the YouTube channel ‘things I’ve learned from Barry Harris’. He covers all this stuff really well.
    Chris covers the minor turnaround stuff here:


  10. #209

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    I don’t think of the II V I as a turnaround because it ends on a resting chord.... I would think of a I II V as a turnaround.

    Am I only the person who makes that distinction? I find it useful and teach it, but don’t know if it crops up elsewhere.

  11. #210

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    You’re probably right, thinking about it.