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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeyih
    David, check your PM/Email.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib

    Hey David,


    sent you a message few days ago, but not sure if you received it ... Let me know please

    Gib
    When I contributed to this thread, I was under the name of TruthHertz. That member has been deleted.
    Please contact me as Jimmy Blue Note
    By the way, I just talked with Mick yesterday. He said he himself didn't have a copy of Factorial Rhythms, so I'm bringing him a copy :-)
    I have copies available, so do reach me PM please, under this name.

    I've been using this book quite a bit. One comment/observation: It seems that as I learned about soloing, there were many aspects that I spent my time assimilating. Harmony, Melodic, Voice leading, Chromaticism, Reharmonization, Extended harmony, ...but rhythm was always a consequence, or even an afterthought. It wasn't until I studied rhythmic phrasing as a primary focus, that entirely new possibilities of solo construction opened themselves up to me.
    I could say so much more with so much less by making use of space in ways I hadn't before.
    There's a tradition of eighth note linearity that has its deep roots in jazz, and from the time of Kenny Clark to Max Roach onwards, drummers have been largely responsible for the rhythmic development (of course Monk wasn't tied to bebop phrasing....). Guitarists have been notoriously slow on thinking in unusual rhythmic units; treating rhythm as a basis for infinite variation for content.
    The Factorial Rhythm book is most useful for the player who is at the restless edge of their rhythmic imagination, eager for a new way of hearing.

    The pandemic has been a great time to add the language of rhythmic possibilities to my playing. It's been a challenge to "hear" in a new way. It's been a revelation to divide my phrasing into rhythmic blocks that are much shorter, more thoughtful, less rambling and have rhythmic impact for that.

    If you guys want to buy a copy, or ask questions about it, let me know PM and if you want to buy one, I'll have Mick sign it for you.

    David

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    How about some free examples?

  4. #28

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    I am intrigued, but what ballpark price are we talking here?
    Namely, I am primarily a bass player, hence the predilection to rhythm as the source of improvisational material...

  5. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by GastonD
    I am intrigued, but what ballpark price are we talking here?
    Namely, I am primarily a bass player, hence the predilection to rhythm as the source of improvisational material...
    It was published in 2008 for $20.00.
    It's out of print
    I'm selling it for cover price plus $5 for postage. $25 unused fresh from the box.
    PM me with your questions and let me know your snail mail address.
    If it's out of the country it's going to be a lot more. I'm sorry. It's the postal service, I have no control over that.
    If I have the opportunity, I'll get Mick to autograph the copy if that's of interest to you.
    Factorial Rhythm by Mick Goodrick-screen-shot-2021-05-21-3-33-03-am-pngFactorial Rhythm by Mick Goodrick-screen-shot-2021-05-21-3-33-36-am-pngFactorial Rhythm by Mick Goodrick-screen-shot-2021-05-21-3-33-59-am-png

  6. #30

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    Thanks Jimmy!
    I am in Europe though, will sit on it for a while.

  7. #31

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    Not to imply anything wrong with Mick's book... he's an amazing person and player......but why don't you get rhythmic studies from a drummer. I started using the Bellson books back in the late 60's and my rhythmic technique improved fast. Not to mentioned sight reading skills. His basic approach to understanding rhythmic figures and being able to recognize them before starting to "Break Down" the figures seem to actually work and again improve speed and accuracy.
    Just some thoughts.
    Original book was out in 60's and later republished in 80's
    Sorry! Something went wrong!

  8. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Not to imply anything wrong with Mick's book... he's an amazing person and player......but why don't you get rhythmic studies from a drummer. I started using the Bellson books back in the late 60's and my rhythmic technique improved fast. Not to mentioned sight reading skills. His basic approach to understanding rhythmic figures and being able to recognize them before starting to "Break Down" the figures seem to actually work and again improve speed and accuracy.
    Just some thoughts.
    Original book was out in 60's and later republished in 80's
    Exactly spot on Reg. I think that any drummer sourced material is really useful for any musician, and guitarists especially. I found Syncopation by Ted Reed a game changer for me.
    The books of Gary Chaffee (who taught Steve Smith and I thought Vinnie Coliuta but I'm not sure of that) are also really great for odd meters, polyrhythms and sticking patterns which can have their own translation for the imaginative guitarist. As a matter of fact, Chaffee and Mick did a lot of collaboration on addressing the patterns of rhythm that would eventually become Factorial Rhythms.

    Factorial rhythms is an exhaustive study on rhythmic permutations presented in a way as to instill in the guitarist a sense of macro and micro phrasing (seed rhythms as molecular phrases combined in ways so they can easily permuted on the fly when soloing in real time). While this may be different from other drumming methods, it's certainly not mutually exclusive.

    THe truth of the matter, you can be a real fine guitarist without the informed study of rhythm, and you can also be an interesting guitarist without even knowing who Max Roach was or even caring. But for a guitarist who develops a sense of phrasing that is uniquely his/her own, at some point, usually later rather than sooner, you're going to see a strong prejudice towards melodic thinking, and find yourself limited by lack of a rhythmic approach.

    Factorial rhythms are NOT going to give a guitarist instant rhythmic freedom or hip ways to think of the beat the way some good drummers may. Work with those drumming books. They're time tested and true.
    Factorial rhythms made me think differently about melody, the ways melodic ideas can be contrasted and complemented against one another in organic and constructive ways, much less genre specific than a jazz drumming approach might. For me, it was a way of creating etudes with formerly unthought of rhythmic accents, and those things, after a lot of work and ear assimilation, became different ways of phrasing for me.

    It's like any study, like painting techniques (watercolours, oils, sumi-e, photoshop) or culinary arts (French, Chinese, Italian or Ethopian cuisine) or martial arts (Wushu, Muay Tai, Karate, Aikido) you can find a direction or approach that fits what is missing in your life. Devote yourself to an approach and really immerse and master the ideas in practice and play, and roads will converge down the road somewhere.

    Bob Moses Drum Wisdom. Amazing resource. Check it out. But it's always good to keep one's mind open to a broader perspective. Just sayin'

  9. #33

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    Yea Mr Blue Note.... I've checked Bob's Drum Wisdom, but haven't been through. Loved his, "Internal hearing and Sound Like Yourself", and the groove thing with a canonical formula... I'll have to go through , thanks.

    I did study with Alan Dawson back in early 70's... that was pretty humbling, but really open my path with rhythm etc...

    And I agree with your points about rhythm.... guitarist need to put much more time in. And I just always thought Micks books were obvious.... what musicians should figure out and organize etc... themselves.

    Yea have the Syncopation books. I just like the bellson because its single line, the snare.... But Like I said, learn rhythm from Drummers....It's hard to go wrong.

  10. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Yea Mr Blue Note.... I've checked Bob's Drum Wisdom, but haven't been through. Loved his, "Internal hearing and Sound Like Yourself", and the groove thing with a canonical formula... I'll have to go through , thanks.

    I did study with Alan Dawson back in early 70's... that was pretty humbling, but really open my path with rhythm etc...

    And I agree with your points about rhythm.... guitarist need to put much more time in. And I just always thought Micks books were obvious.... what musicians should figure out and organize etc... themselves.

    Yea have the Syncopation books. I just like the bellson because its single line, the snare.... But Like I said, learn rhythm from Drummers....It's hard to go wrong.
    You knew AD? That's quite an honor. I got to know him back in the day. As a matter of fact, one of the recordings I made will be out in July: Alan, Mike Stern and Harvie Swartz, trio, standards, Alan playing more melodically than any of those melodic masters.

    Yeah I do surround myself with the wisdom of the masters (and many stories AD told me about the music world that he knew; master class in music history not written in any book). I have a record called The Drum by Papa Jo that Adam Nussbaum turned me onto. Hoo boy, talk about stories nobody wrote down!
    Mick's stuff is not obvious. There is never a single "Do this" in his Almanac type books, or even a suggestion of how to use it. But in that rude push into the pool, there's the sink or swim education of knowledge that comes on your own. With the Almanacs and the rhythm books, I'd say 80% of those who own them say "This is uselessly non musical math/bullshit" and they sit on shelves. Of those who benefit from them it's always the player who is not afraid to swing the sledge hammer against the mountain. In other words, if you spend your time actually playing, exploring, formulating the logic system that fits you, don't give up and love the new frontier more than anything, his books provide an extremely detailed and vague map of what is possible.

    He says "It's not for everyone but you ask serious questions, you'll find serious answers".

    I was just talking with Ben Monder. He'd written a piece based on Mick's ideas. When Mick heard it, he commented that "I have no idea of what he's doing there, it's beyond anything I had in mind." and that's why he did it.

  11. #35
    I had a friend who was a student of Mike Sterns and sent me a standards tape cassette except it has AN on drums and it was really outstanding! The tape I heard was at the 55 bar in NYC. When I first moved to NYC in the eighties my roomate and I went there and we sat close to the stage. Mike came close while he was soloing and it was like "heres the New York standard are you ready? " but thats why its good to come to Big Apple and see where a person stands. I decided I needed to practice more! and Do Not develop a chorus addiction! But anyway Mike can sure play uptempo and ballads well and the rhythm section was great! With Alan Dawson it should really be on fire!

  12. #36

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    I was just talking with Ben Monder. He'd written a piece based on Mick's ideas. When Mick heard it, he commented that "I have no idea of what he's doing there, it's beyond anything I had in mind." and that's why he did it.
    What is the name of this piece? Has it been released?

  13. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnoL
    What is the name of this piece? Has it been released?
    No, there'll be on a future project. Right now, they're compositions for unaccompanied guitar.

  14. #38

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    Yea... I only knew AD through lessons, Ray Santisi, (whom I was taking lesson from) suggested I try and get on his calendar... and I got lucky. (yea... old musician stories...)

    Lookin forward to your release... I remember when AD passed. I was still in Boston when had to leave Berklee.

    I wasn't trying to imply any of Micks teachings are BS....And apologize if came off that way. The serious thing...personally is just a given and what and how Mick approaches music should be taken as so. Personally I had/have different perspectives of that process. Not good, bad, better or worse etc... just different.

  15. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg

    Lookin forward to your release... I remember when AD passed. I was still in Boston when had to leave Berklee.

    I wasn't trying to imply any of Micks teachings are BS.....
    Of course not. I respect you too much to think that. So many people trying to get a handle on this music, you're one of the ones who did the work.
    Here's something to read 'til the record drops:
    https://njjs.org/2021/03/07/bassist-...FmpGUFL3_97QI0