The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    ColinO, I've seen a lot of Reg's videos and I can assure you he can play any key and any scale anywhere and everywhere on the neck.
    I've seen a couple of his videos and think he is amazing. That's why I'm trying to understand exactly what he is saying here. I have a ton to learn from a lot of people on this forum, Reg being at the top of the list. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that he is limited to one fingering although maybe it came off that way.

    Thanks.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    No Collin, I didn't take it that way it all, I didn't think you were saying Reg's fretboard system is limited. I believe I know what Reg is saying, but the way he wrote it is confusing to me also.
    Last edited by fep; 07-05-2012 at 12:36 PM.

  4. #28

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    Hey Thanks for interest and help. Sorry about confusion.

    Yes Fep... very similar to Leavitts, I'm a grad from Berklee mid 70's. But I was using the basic fingerings already. I went to Berklee to learn about jazz harmony and composition etc... I could already play... at least well enough to gig... I could read and had chops, the being able to play part would have been subjective...

    The point I'm trying to get across is all my playing, both on the guitar and in my head... has a starting point. My starting reference for relationships and development.

    All the fingerings on the 6th string are my starting references... Even if I'm playing Cmaj scale or arpeggio from 5th string 3rd fret... my tonal or mental reference would be Cmaj. But my mechanical neck reference would be... all six strings fingering from Gmixo. The fingering is simply a grid or pattern that always covers all six strings. My tonal point of reference can be anywhere on that grid or pattern.

    I'm really just talking about mechanical fingerings... that cover all six strings and moves up the neck seamlessly with least amount of effort.

    And these are just my starting points, I don't have to think about these fingerings... they are my instincts. There are other fingerings which have same mechanical principles. At some point you need to make choices... I did. Obviously I really don't need to think about other fingerings either, at least when I decide to use them.

    There might be other points of interest... more work and making your fingers do more difficult fingering might contribute to pain and even problems down the line... I've played for 50+ years, never just casually, I play and have played a lot. I've always enjoyed pushing the tempos, never had any pains.

    Another point... I for the most part of my career, have always played a Jazz Box with heavy strings and high action, helps create the style of playing I like. During the 70's and 80's I played simi and solid body guitars also, the fusion thing. Any fingerings work... you almost want more difficult fingerings to slow down or create some type of rebound.
    My point... probable less chance of doing damage to hands on solid body guitars. But the starting point reference concept still applies.

    We could get into structural aspects and mechanics of other systems, etc... do they have holes, hit walls, are they better.

    Reg

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    What I really would like to do is get into playing Jazz, becoming aware of different concepts and their applications...
    Right on, Reg! I thought you were starting to live stream one of your gigs when I saw the title. Very generous of you to put in the time... Some random thoughts: How about "Blues meets MM?" ... Interested in how you control blue notes--to paraphrase our buddy Mr.B. Also, Modal Interchange 101--keep it simple to begin... Thank you!

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    I went to Berklee to learn about jazz harmony and composition etc...
    Reg
    Hi Reg,

    I know you have done a lot of compositions and arranging. That also might be an interesting topic for your thread. It would be great to 'look over your shoulder and ask questions' as you go through a composition.

    Perhaps a little off topic, but maybe some food for future thought.

    If you're looking for anyone to do some 'ditch digging' for these threads for you, let me know. I can transcribe and/or notate some of your stuff.

  7. #31

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    I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to ask you about strings, picks and amps, because someone who has been playing as long as you have and at your level must have pretty much tried it all(or maybe you're one of the cats who found his sound instantly?).
    Myself, I'm going a bit back and forth when it comes to strings and picks. I've only been playing jazz for four years, so I haven't found my sound yet, but I'm getting close! Benson talked about combining heavy picks with light strings and vice versa. I was wondering if you have any thoughts about that and can share your observations about how different picks, strings and amps have worked for you and what your personal preferences are.

  8. #32

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    It's more of... I use MM for source of Blue notes, not all the time but for what I hear as jazz blues or when I cover funk jazz. I don't really like rock harmony.

    It's pretty simple... I use different approaches when playing,(or composing), to change or add chords or harmonic areas to pull from melodically and create harmonic movement... the changes. When I want or hear blues... I usually introduce MM as source for those blue notes... If nothing else, it's great camouflage.

    Simple example; I , VI- II- V7, Gmaj7, E-7, A-7, D7
    VI- becomes V7 of II-, E-7 becomes E7. Now Tri-tone sub Bb7#11 for E7... that gives you access to Blue notes of Gmaj7, the Bb and the F.

    When I use MM... I use in more of a modal style, non functional. Any chord structure or use of notes is cool... So the Bb7#11 is built from 4th degree of F melodic min. I now have access to all chords built on any scale degree of F melodic min. Which opens a bunch of access points for new relationships. I could also now sub for the sub... E7#9 for the 1st sub Bb7#11. The E7#9 chord has very typical blue note implications, very blues like and can even rock. This same process can be applied to the D7... the sub or Ab7#11, or sub of sub, D7#9.

    In this situation... the relationships and developments from my simple changes to VI- and the V7 chords are on the weak side of the Harmonic Rhythm of simple chord progression... the rhythm is Strong, weak, strong weak. So the basic feel of progression, even after changes...is same as original.

    If your soloing over the original progression... you would need to be somewhat subtle with your use of new harmonic areas, at least while you introduce to the ears.

    Simply put... I'm using Melodic minor for source of blue notes. I'm using method of introducing access to MM as system of harmonic control... the guidelines of use.

    In that simple I,VI II V... I used F melodic minor from sub of VI and then also Eb melodic min from sub of V... both gave access to blue notes, (and a whole lot more).

    Play Gmaj7, to F-maj9, to A-7 to Eb-ma9. hummm I'll post some playing examples later after gig.

    Frank, great idea, Would simple Jazz tune be cool. I need to write a few new tunes for upcoming new CD. Generally deadlines are the guidelines for when I compose.
    Reg

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmundLauritzen
    I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to ask you about strings, picks and amps, because someone who has been playing as long as you have and at your level must have pretty much tried it all(or maybe you're one of the cats who found his sound instantly?).
    Myself, I'm going a bit back and forth when it comes to strings and picks. I've only been playing jazz for four years, so I haven't found my sound yet, but I'm getting close! Benson talked about combining heavy picks with light strings and vice versa. I was wondering if you have any thoughts about that and can share your observations about how different picks, strings and amps have worked for you and what your personal preferences are.
    I played through a Twin in the 60's and still use one when I need the volume or presence. I use a Polytone the rest of the time. I have way to many amps... they sit or are loaned out. I use fender heavy picks, play from the sides, they last twice as long and change them quickly, they get scratchy.

    I'm always going between D'Addario chromes and Thomastic-Infeld or a mix of the two. I change strings at least once every two weeks, depending on gigs, every week.

    I've never really been that big on getting the best sound... I usually try and fit into the band. Everyone loves an ugly dog. Sorry just having fun... Sound is always a struggle, every room or stage has different sound on stage and if there is sound person... locally they know what I want, out of area, I do the best I can.
    The next video I make I'll go through what and how I play, might give clearer picture...
    Reg
    Last edited by Reg; 07-05-2012 at 08:31 PM.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Now Tri-tone sub Bb7#11 for E7... that gives you access to Blue notes of Gmaj7, the Bb and the F.
    1) In this case, you get the #11 because the E stays around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    I could also now sub for the sub... E7#9 for the 1st sub Bb7#11.
    2) How does this sub of sub process work? It seems we would just get back to where we started. Here, I'm really not clear where the #9 = G comes from since it isn't even in the Bb7#11. Or, going out on a limb, is the idea that you just want an altered chord/altered scale? Could have said E7b9?

    Thanks
    Last edited by jster; 07-05-2012 at 10:16 PM.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Frank, great idea, Would simple Jazz tune be cool. I need to write a few new tunes for upcoming new CD. Generally deadlines are the guidelines for when I compose.
    Reg
    Reg, that sounds great. Thanks

    I'm thinking it would be very practical if I learned from your composition and then tried to write one of my own using the same concepts. I'd then post it in a 'Tune in Progress' thread

  12. #36

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    Reg, I just a quick note to say thanks for your efforts. I know it's alot of work.

    I'm looking forward to the instructions.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg

    All the fingerings on the 6th string are my starting references... Even if I'm playing Cmaj scale or arpeggio from 5th string 3rd fret... my tonal or mental reference would be Cmaj. But my mechanical neck reference would be... all six strings fingering from Gmixo. The fingering is simply a grid or pattern that always covers all six strings. My tonal point of reference can be anywhere on that grid or pattern.

    I'm really just talking about mechanical fingerings... that cover all six strings and moves up the neck seamlessly with least amount of effort.
    Thanks for sharing this info Reg, I'm feeling on the brink of an epiphany!

    Are you saying your approach to a IIm7-V7-IM7 in key of G at fifth position, your starting point is a mechanical reference and anchor to your B Phrygian fingering, middle finger on string 6, fret 7?

    Cheers

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Floorstand
    Thanks for sharing this info Reg, I'm feeling on the brink of an epiphany!

    Are you saying your approach to a IIm7-V7-IM7 in key of G at fifth position, your starting point is a mechanical reference and anchor to your B Phrygian fingering, middle finger on string 6, fret 7?

    Cheers
    The II V I in G is a chord progression. The tonal center or key is Gmaj. My mechanical fingerings are the patterns covering the entire neck. I use 6th string reference points to talk about my fingering.

    I usually wouldn't use a 5th position fingering.

    1-3-4
    1-3-s4
    1-3-s4
    1-3
    1-3-4
    1(3-4)

    Yes, I would use if I was in that position on my neck... the B Phrygian fingering. More often I would be in, or start in 4th position, or my A Dorian fingering, with 1st finger stretches for A- D7 Gma.

    Playing Amin from that 5th position with 4th finger stretches is very rocky, not bad of good, just doesn't have a jazz feel to me. When I use that 5th position fingering it's usually combined with 4th position A Dorian fingering and move to 5th position, (and 2nd) for pentatonic licks.

    I rarely stay in one position for more than a beat or two. The position fingering become instinctive... I move up and down the neck to play whatever and that... 7 positions 6th string reference is my mechanical guideline... my default starting point to be able to move up and down the neck as needed.
    Reg

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Reg, that sounds great. Thanks

    I'm thinking it would be very practical if I learned from your composition and then tried to write one of my own using the same concepts. I'd then post it in a 'Tune in Progress' thread
    Hey Frank... sounds fun, will be cool to hear from your ears... I'll make somewhat simple form and then try and camouflage...

    E- / A- /..../ ..../ groove
    E- / A- /..../..../ different groove developed from 1st groove leading to
    ?.../.../..../...../ longer maybe time change then pivot chord to rel. min..
    F#-11, new groove , longer section, hip melody
    last part... something sub-Dom, bVI like.

    There we go "A" "A" "B" "C", some what typical form and harmonically close. I'll try and make it a little hipper and post later. (fill in the blanks)
    Reg

  16. #40

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    Hey jster...

    The original changes are; Ima, VI-, II- V7 , a diatonic chord progression, in my example... Diatonic to Gmaj. Ionian. All the complete chord tones from each chord are from Gmaj. and all with reference to Gmaj.

    Typically when playing or composing jazz... that is a little boring, beyond boring... There are many methods of introducing and developing different types of relationships within that simple chord progression, with or with out melody, and still be based... have the same starting point of reference and imply that same diatonic progression.

    What I'm doing in this example is adding blue notes. I want to use Melodic Minor as my source for adding Blue notes. I'm using subs for my access to MM.

    So E- becoming E7 by becoming V/II- and the sub of that E7 is Bb7#11 which implies chord tones;
    Bb, D, F, Ab, C, E, G, Bb, from F melodic Min. There are other choices, but this choice is very typical with Jazz Harmony and playing Jazz and the one I'm using.
    So now by way of introduction of Bb7... which now also has a relationship with the chord progression, and my reason for going through this process is to frame and give harmonic implications to blue notes, all with reference to the original diatonic chord progression in Gmaj. Anyway the Bb7 gives me access to the Bb and F.. blue notes of Gmaj.

    So now if I want to get a little closer to blues or rock approaches to playing blue notes or pentatonic... Gma pentatonic or the relative Emin pentatonic. I would use sub for Bb7#11... I'm flipping the tritone to come up with E7 but keeping the same collection of notes from F melodic minor... result is E7altered. So in this case the sub of a sub.

    There are other methods of using sub of sub;
    Example; The sub Bb7 pulled from Note collection of F melodic Min.
    Because MM can and is use in a Modal type of application. Once you introduce Melodic min. You can use any chordal or note collection built on any scale degree of that MM. Anyway the Bb7 sub in my earlier example was pulled from F melodic Minor... So I could Sub any chord built on any degree of F melodic min.
    The typical example is E7alt. But could be Abmaj7#11 the 3rd degree of MM. I would be careful with the implied #5.
    Or the II-7 chord of F melodic min. G-7.
    All sub of subs...

    Reg

  17. #41

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    Dear REg!

    Thank You for Your kindness and help, its a pleasure to learn from one of the PROests here! Its the greatest journey to see things You like to learn from a point of view of a guy (You) who has tons of the greatest materials in his head.
    2 noob questions:

    1st: what is that MM (Sorry, but really dont know what that means)?
    2nd: How do you think when reading sheet music? I mean You take a look 1st on how many bs or #s are in the sheet, then You look at the rhythm, and then are you thinking in chords when You see those "dumplings" -ups notes sry- or just put Your fingers on the exact frets? What is the best method in jazz (i mean in jazz there are much more accidentals than in classical music)?

    thanks

    laci

  18. #42

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    MM = Melodic Minor.

  19. #43

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    Great Reg, I'm following you I think. After 12 months it's starting to sink in! One more question about this. When you say "use" this stuff, are we supposed to imagine the bass player just plunking on an E? And wouldn't you have to talk it over with the piano player if you were going to start going off Bb7#11 or Abmaj7#11? I have this image of you just using telepathy with the other guys in your bands and somehow everybody instantaneously invokes the same subs. I can understand subs for chord solos/composition. But how does it work for solos? How much do you have to talk over with the pianist beforehand? Thanks so much.

  20. #44

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    I don't think everyone has to play the subs unless you're reharmonizing, then give others a "heads up". I think of the subs just making the original chord more complex. Am I wrong on this?

  21. #45

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    Thanks edh, yes Melodic Minor.

    How many layers and what methods I use to develop changes or use of harmony.... more into my understanding of in a jazz style... depends on band. Most jazz musicians can and will hear the standard approaches, of which subs, Melodic minor, modal interchange, blue notes etc... are all pretty typical. We'll hear what's going on and adapt as we play. And even if someone is really stretching... we know how to stay on form and either simplify, pedal or at least stay in touch with the harmonic rhythm... what ever strong weak pattern is going on and listen for clues. Jazz players are very good at making decisions with very little info.

    Gramps is right.. if your not sure, or depending on gig...it's fairly simple to verbally say, let's use this approach, ... and yes subs still have same tonal reference(s), Reharms imply new tonal center(s) . To me maybe simply more interesting. I mean every chord or note can imply any numbers of standard chord patterns.

    OK ...so I'll put together a post of how I comp. How I have beginning references, mechanical references up and down the neck, just like how I have fingering that are always my default starting points. I use basic chord forms up and down the neck. I don't worry about inversions, drop 2 or 3 etc... obviously I'm aware of what they are... but I'll get into my mechanics. Reg

  22. #46

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    Glad to see this thread happening!

  23. #47

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    Fep might go with a different thread for this... But I'll post to start.
    Frank wanted to get into composing... so I talked about a basic form and harmonic idea... then I sat down and very quickly added a few relationships to the very basic original idea... I started with this from post above...

    "Hey Frank... sounds fun, will be cool to hear from your ears... I'll make somewhat simple form and then try and camouflage...

    E- / A- /..../ ..../ groove
    E- / A- /..../..../ different groove developed from 1st groove leading to
    ?.../.../..../...../ longer maybe time change then pivot chord to rel. min..
    F#-11, new groove , longer section, hip melody
    last part... something sub-Dom, bVI like.

    There we go "A" "A" "B" "C", some what typical form and harmonically close. I'll try and make it a little hipper and post later. (fill in the blanks)
    Reg"

    So here's the next step... a simple work lead sheet and I added a quick video to hear... One more time cleaning up and one down a few to go.

  24. #48

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    Cool Reg. I'm not sure I want to check your new post out yet as I'm still working on my 'homework' for this composition. Should I continue fumbling down my own path a bit, or check out what you've done? I'm trying to decide.

    I got busy learning a list of tunes to play bass on a local jam session, so I haven't spent much time on the composition. I did mention to you that I had a little bass line in my head, so I notated that and added some chords trying to keep in mind to use chords from the melodic minor. So this is all I've got right now. And, right now my wife is dragging me off to visit the relatives.

    Is this little bit on the right track?
    Last edited by fep; 07-08-2012 at 11:18 AM.

  25. #49

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    Hey Frank... nice groove... Hey two tunes are better than one.
    We can both work together on both directions...
    Some notes on my composition process... I wanted to camouflage My simple E- to A- , so I used approach chords which also gave me more harmonic material to work with. Somewhat general rule of comp. maybe use something twice, never three times with out introducing a new relationship etc... harmonically, melodically or rhythmically. There are always exceptions... especially when repetition is part of a concept.

    I always dig playing around with getting balance between different aspects of composition... can be location of use, actual physical time line, sections of tune, trying to compound balance different aspects with each other. Harmony and rhythm etc.. I like to see and hear music with all aspects being part of contrapuntal concept... I'm using contrapuntal in respect to not just melodic... all parts of composition.
    Reg

  26. #50

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    Hi Reg.

    I know you´re not one for big self-advertsing....but after reading a lot from you here and watching quite a few of your youtube vids i wanna ask:
    Are there any records out there with you playing on them? And do you have a website or something where we can browse them and read about the line-ups and such??

    I enjoy your playing a lot and would love to hear it in a band context...


    Cheers,
    Helgo