The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #326

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    I'm going to try to restate some of this in the way that I think about it. Maybe somebody can then tell me if what I've written correctly restates the material Reg has described.

    Let's say the first chord of a tune is Gmaj7 in the key of F. 8 beats.

    Fairly vanilla approaches could include:

    1. playing the Gmaj7 for 8 beats.
    2. alternating Gmaj7 to G6
    3. Moving from one Gmaj7 voicing to another, while trying to get a melodic idea in the top note of each voicing.
    4. Adding different top notes from the key of G to the chord. So that, for example, you might go from xx2433 to xx2435. In fact, you can find a way to add any top note to Gmaj7.
    5. You could play a chord sequence that might be a kind of 3 6 2 5 or variant. G G#dim Am7 D7 is one the older big band guys used.

    Less vanilla approaches might include.

    6. Changing the Gmaj7 to a G69 or Gmaj7b5 (if it fits the tune).
    7. Changing it to something else, with Bm7 Dmaj7 and Em7 being likely candidates, but, I suppose you could throw in Coltrane changes if you were so inclined.
    8. You can use all these different voicings with different top notes (typically by leaving your left hand pinkie free to move around) to create some kind of counter line.
    9. Putting in a chord sequence that leads to the next chord in a logical way (too many possibilities).
    10. Voicing it in fourths say xx2233 and moving that through the major scale -- which creates 7 options for the top note per octave and often leaves your pinkie free to find others.

    I don't know if the next one is vanilla or not

    11. Harmonize every note of the melody and then find a way to utilize some or all of those chords in your comping.

    I know that I've omitted more options than I've included. If anyone has more ideas, let me express this wish ... please put them in a particular song or key with chord names and grips, if possible. It just seems easier to figure out than more abstract or theoretical comments. For me, it is comprehensible with a specific example. Maybe I'm not alone in that.

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  3. #327

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    Harmonized lead lines exist in a context

    Playing the melody or soloing with chords
    Rhythm Section Hits.
    Obligato behind melody/soloist
    Counter melody

    1. adding melody to chords
    2. adding chords to melody

    Both skills part of the same paradigm.
    Good to develop flexibility in both.

    Reg,

    Would like to hear more about chord patterns.
    Always glad to hear your perspective.

  4. #328

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    Thanks Reg ...I am more involved in composition so
    sometimes using subs of subs gets me somewhere
    that I would not presently ' hear ' which is cool.

    I am going to look at a lot of your stuff from earlier threads and digest it first and hopefully add some of my own ...it seems to lead to different ' soft cadences ' which are not strictly V - I or Vii - I ...with the Major b5s resolving differently and chord successions moving by common tones more than Roman Numerals functions sometimes..

    It's really cool that all the major 13b5 s and major7 #11s have that tritone but non dominant - I am finding cool ways to resolve them but not completely above water on cataloging the relationships yet.

  5. #329

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    Nice to see interest....

    Hey Matt...That sounds like a good idea, basically a comping video of what voicings I might use for playing tunes...

    So I would pick a few tunes, make quick analysis for big picture organization... make choice of style etc... then play. Basically what I do live at gigs etc...

    I like it... So you would get,

    1) the actual chords of tune, voicings with lead lines and how organized etc...

    2) the resulting performance of using those chords, their development, and the new relationship of added chords and chord patterns and their development.... also the lead lines and their organization, what type or style of lead line, which controls the notes below that lead line, the voicing intervals and interval between the lead line and the voicing below it. (all part of creating feel and style while reflecting the context or performance).

    3) World also get the theory organization of how I use Functional control of Harmonic and melodic movement and sustain.

    OK... I put something together and we can work with it.


    rpjazzguitar...

    I'll go through your post etc...
    Vanilla
    So playing Gma7 on a tune in Fmaj ? That's not vanilla harmony. When you use any of your approaches, your making Gmaj7 a Tonal Target.... and your chord patterns tend to imply Gmaj as a tonic. Is that what your trying to do... a modulation.

    less Vanilla
    Changing to G6/9 is good because it opens different possibilities, harmonically. But you might not be getting the concept.... When you comp or solo... what you play should have a reference.... in your example... the Gmaj7 chord in a tune that's in Fmaj.

    The way I approach performing.... is organized, everything I play has organization behind it. The organization may be wrong or not work, suck etc.... but it's not by chance.... I don't play things, lines because my pinkie might be able to.

    This is part of how I approach playing music.... my guitar or hands don't play me..... I make them play what I want them to. All technical aspects of my playing reflect this approach. That's why all my organizations of fingerings, fretboard organizations... my harmonic and theoretical organizations... yada yada... anyway sorry to rant, but everything is tied together, the only chance is choices I make.

    Anyway...I don't change the chord..... I extend the relationship. That's why I use analysis, which creates functional organization, a harmonic and melodic representation of a chord or chords and melodic lines that becomes a Reference.... a Functional reference. This naturally creates musical Organization. A musical Reference to work with or from.

    You don't throw in chords or chord patterns without being aware of the harmonic or melodic organization.
    Voicings... generally keep the same functional reference.... by term, same chord.

    Chord patterns are different from sequences.... sequences generally have mechanical organization, chord patterns have functional organization and are generally from jazz tunes.

    Using quartal voicings can camouflage... quartal harmony as compared to tertian harmony has different functional organization.

    You might be trying to throw everything into the same pot.... I'm not from that school.

    My approach to playing jazz may not be for you.... no big deal.

    Hey bako, if you read above comments.... Chord Patterns are functional, they assume a quality of individuality... that distinguishes them from other series of chords of same names... They become one big chord. Maybe like when we embellish a note... the embellishment is not the note, but becomes part of.

    Yea Robert.... all my playing is from compositional or arranging perspective....And part of the results of using functional organization is.... many more options... You end up with lots of plug and play organization. Maybe analogy could be... organized licks... somewhat longer licks that have choices of harmonic references.... and you can plug and play them. Results in working with pre-organized longer sections of music.

    When you play or compose with the spatial thing being part of the organization... Form etc... anyway you don't need to consciously think and hear every note or detail because you have already gone through the process and have internalized the sound, feel results etc...

    Like sight reading.... you really don't read every note by note... you recognize sections or phrases and patterns etc...

  6. #330

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    Sorry! Typo! That should have been Gmaj7 in the Key of G.

    If I have 8 beats of Gmaj7 in the key of G, I'm probably going to try to embellish it at some point.

    My "concept" is to try to complement the soloist while coordinating with the other comping instruments, and, at the same time, playing something interesting enough that it could stand alone.

    So, one way to do that is to stay with the Gmaj7 as the fundamental sound, but to vary the voicings and, in particular, the top note, to create some kind of melodic statement that enhances what is going on in the rest of the band. It's easier if there''s no piano.

    So, again speaking about only one way to do this, is to use what I learned as Chuck Wayne's voicings, which, when fingered carefully, allow you to get just about any note at the top of the chord. Then, you use your ear to figure out what sounds good and what doesn't.

    A comparable approach would use stacks of fourths for the voicings. I don't think they necessarily sound good when used interchangeably with tertian voicings, but that's taste. You can move a stack through a scale, arriving at 7 voicings and, again, with careful fingering, you can get almost anything you want on top. You could play the same countermelody, but this time voiced in 4ths.

    A different approach, to may way of thinking, would be to replace the 8 beats of Gmaj7 what I learned as a "chord progression". The old big band guys might start with Gmaj7, then go to G#dim then something with A in the bass and end with G6/B, perhaps. The possibilities seem infinite, but if it's not solo guitar, you may make trouble.

    Anyway, this is an example of how I think about it. I would like to understand Reg's concepts, but so far I haven't been able to translate his language into my internal language, so I haven't been able to grasp it.

    On a related topic -- most of my playing is with a piano. And, sadly, sometimes, I can't hear the piano very well (a horn band in a small rehearsal space). So, there are challenges. It's all relevant to making good choices for comping, but I guess it's another thread.
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 06-03-2018 at 02:15 PM.

  7. #331

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    Yes... thought was typo,
    anyway...

    "concept" is to try to complement the soloist while coordinating with the other comping instruments, and, at the same time, playing something interesting enough that it could stand alone.

    So there is a big difference between playing and even talking about playing. Everything you just stated is basically null an void... could mean anything to anyone reading it, right... and what is the musical organization, will it repeat.

    Maybe break that down...
    "compliment the soloist"... pretty vague right, make his or her hair look good. it could keep going, but you probable get the point.

    But I'll go with your line of thought.... I'm guessing your young or new to jazz etc.... all cool. Performing with a rhythm section is not just being a backing tract or making what he or she is playing sound good..... your job is to hear and understand what the soloist is doing musically and interact and react, sometimes even get ahead and help setup harmonically and rhythmically where the soloist is going melodically.

    "Stand on it's own"... maybe, but better to become musically part of what the soloist is playing.

    8 bars of Gmaj7... is going to get old quick. I'm taking it when you say "Fundamental sound"... your implying.... keep the same root and vary the voicings and lead line. Yes great, now become aware of different.... styles and feels....which imply different voicings and different types of lead lines. Bottom line, even if you come up with great groove.... will get stale in eight bars... even tunes like Bolivia with cool vamp on G7 get old with out some type of harmonic movement, or at least the perception a rhythmic and harmonic groove.

    CW's approach is great... but it's a technical skill to be able to play any chord or voicing with any note on top anywhere on the fretboard....you still need to translate that technical skill into performance skills.... make those lead lines become organized... counter lines in contrapuntal style... gets old quick and doesn't really imply that many styles. Groove lines are contrapuntal and can imply different musical styles and feels.

    The use of 4ths or any voicing should have a reason for using... not just that's what I can play etc... 4th are great cor modal harmony, help camouflage standard functional harmony. But you still need that perception of some type of cycle in motion... a groove etc...

    "Chord progressions"... still have function going on within the progression.... Chord patterns don't, unless you choose to make them. It's not so much the 1st time through or the basic level of playing... it's more about what other relationships you create and develop, the extending the basic relationship.

    If your really interested in my approaches... you'll need to expand your language and ears. Like I said earlier... it doesn't work in how you explain as your approach. Nothing wrong with your approach... But when you begin to perform with more players... you might need more.
    I gig with different rhythm sections that are vanilla all the time, and pianist that are vanilla and only know 10 finger voicings and think they should play all the time.... I hang a little while... then start verbally talking and playing off the vanilla.... most will hear... and then... I can make even the most basic part sound like what the arranger would like to have notated... and make sure the drummer and bassist can't help but lock in. It helps that I can sight read anything and rip off burnin solos when asked to.

    And always have the other players backs... this is important... really.

    And if I don't like the gig... I'm already booked next call.

    Most problems when performing in a rhythm section are technical. Not being able to play and interpret or understand what else is implied by the part or tune.
    Maybe if I get it together and make comping vids for Matt.... you'll see or hear something you like, or help you understand my approach to playing etc... or not, It doesn't really matter... you sound like you can play and you'll keep getting better and have fun, maybe even make some $. thanks for posting...Reg

  8. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Yes... thought was typo,
    anyway...

    "concept" is to try to complement the soloist while coordinating with the other comping instruments, and, at the same time, playing something interesting enough that it could stand alone.

    So there is a big difference between playing and even talking about playing. Everything you just stated is basically null an void... could mean anything to anyone reading it, right... and what is the musical organization, will it repeat.

    Maybe break that down...
    "compliment the soloist"... pretty vague right, make his or her hair look good. it could keep going, but you probable get the point.

    But I'll go with your line of thought.... I'm guessing your young or new to jazz etc.... all cool. Performing with a rhythm section is not just being a backing tract or making what he or she is playing sound good..... your job is to hear and understand what the soloist is doing musically and interact and react, sometimes even get ahead and help setup harmonically and rhythmically where the soloist is going melodically.

    "Stand on it's own"... maybe, but better to become musically part of what the soloist is playing.

    8 bars of Gmaj7... is going to get old quick. I'm taking it when you say "Fundamental sound"... your implying.... keep the same root and vary the voicings and lead line. Yes great, now become aware of different.... styles and feels....which imply different voicings and different types of lead lines. Bottom line, even if you come up with great groove.... will get stale in eight bars... even tunes like Bolivia with cool vamp on G7 get old with out some type of harmonic movement, or at least the perception a rhythmic and harmonic groove.

    CW's approach is great... but it's a technical skill to be able to play any chord or voicing with any note on top anywhere on the fretboard....you still need to translate that technical skill into performance skills.... make those lead lines become organized... counter lines in contrapuntal style... gets old quick and doesn't really imply that many styles. Groove lines are contrapuntal and can imply different musical styles and feels.

    The use of 4ths or any voicing should have a reason for using... not just that's what I can play etc... 4th are great cor modal harmony, help camouflage standard functional harmony. But you still need that perception of some type of cycle in motion... a groove etc...

    "Chord progressions"... still have function going on within the progression.... Chord patterns don't, unless you choose to make them. It's not so much the 1st time through or the basic level of playing... it's more about what other relationships you create and develop, the extending the basic relationship.

    If your really interested in my approaches... you'll need to expand your language and ears. Like I said earlier... it doesn't work in how you explain as your approach. Nothing wrong with your approach... But when you begin to perform with more players... you might need more.
    I gig with different rhythm sections that are vanilla all the time, and pianist that are vanilla and only know 10 finger voicings and think they should play all the time.... I hang a little while... then start verbally talking and playing off the vanilla.... most will hear... and then... I can make even the most basic part sound like what the arranger would like to have notated... and make sure the drummer and bassist can't help but lock in. It helps that I can sight read anything and rip off burnin solos when asked to.

    And always have the other players backs... this is important... really.

    And if I don't like the gig... I'm already booked next call.

    Most problems when performing in a rhythm section are technical. Not being able to play and interpret or understand what else is implied by the part or tune.
    Maybe if I get it together and make comping vids for Matt.... you'll see or hear something you like, or help you understand my approach to playing etc... or not, It doesn't really matter... you sound like you can play and you'll keep getting better and have fun, maybe even make some $. thanks for posting...Reg
    Thanks for the reply. I'm intrigued by the ideas. I'm just having trouble going from the written word to an idea of what to play, or even how to approach figuring that out. Presumably, my limitation. I've always had a much easier time going from specific towards general than the other way around.

  9. #333

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Nice to see interest....

    Hey Matt...That sounds like a good idea, basically a comping video of what voicings I might use for playing tunes...

    So I would pick a few tunes, make quick analysis for big picture organization... make choice of style etc... then play. Basically what I do live at gigs etc...

    I like it... So you would get,

    1) the actual chords of tune, voicings with lead lines and how organized etc...

    2) the resulting performance of using those chords, their development, and the new relationship of added chords and chord patterns and their development.... also the lead lines and their organization, what type or style of lead line, which controls the notes below that lead line, the voicing intervals and interval between the lead line and the voicing below it. (all part of creating feel and style while reflecting the context or performance).

    3) World also get the theory organization of how I use Functional control of Harmonic and melodic movement and sustain.

    OK... I put something together and we can work with it.
    Speaking just for myself, this would be incredibly helpful. I'd be very grateful for something like this. Examples really help me learn much more than just descriptions. Thanks in advance if you do this.

  10. #334
    Couldn't find these. Need a place for them to live.

    Reg scale fingerings major melodic minor mm pdf attached
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