George Van Eps Guitar Method

**Jacowoody** · 07-04-2011, 11:59 AM

I just found The George Van Eps Guitar Method.

In his first lesson he is teaching a harmonized C scale in triad form.

He shows six slightly different ways of doing this on different sets of three strings. In all six examples he is using 1st inversion triads except for the vi-. For this he uses a 2nd inversion F (c,f,a) instead of what I would use, a 1st inversion A minor (c,e,a).

What am I overlooking?

**monk** · 07-04-2011, 12:15 PM

The answer is here, straight from the Master's mouth: TedGreene.com - Audio - Ted Greene, George Van Eps Interview

George-Van-Eps-Interview.pdf

**NSJ** · 07-04-2011, 05:06 PM

What a great speaker.

Liked the part where he's telling Ted about the inferior tonal quality of "slab" guitars ("some people think you can take a 2x4 and put strings and HB on it and it'll sound right").

This is 1981--has Ted started playing a Tele yet?

**wizard3739** · 07-04-2011, 11:00 PM

Ted was playing Tele's & Strat's when I first met him in 1975'

wiz

**brwnhornet59** · 07-05-2011, 12:13 AM

Yeah, I really enjoyed that. Thanx Monk!

**edspyhill01** · 07-05-2011, 07:11 AM

I recently started working on Van Epps' first version of his method mentioned in the inverview, "The George Van Epps Guitar Method". I have to write out each of the exercises in all the keys but the triad based material seems to resonate with the way my brain likes to learn. I just "correct" all the vi chords. In this method version there is an exercise that has you play chords I, ii, iii, I, then ii, iii, iv, ii, etc for each of the 6 forms. It still is kicking my butt with the metronome clicking very slowly. It's "old school" learning but that was what my 8 years of grade school used so I'm pre-conditioned.

Ed S.

**cacibi** · 12-27-2012, 03:13 PM

The interview section starts at 12:40 on the 5th recording. Whew...that was a lot of listening to get there!

**pierre richard** · 12-27-2012, 03:58 PM

good stuff for sure man...

I also have the 3 volume Mechanisims set...

Working on Vol I...

time on the instrument..

**LePaul** · 02-07-2013, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by monk

The answer is here. Straight from the Master's mouth.
TedGreene.com - Audio - Ted Greene, George Van Eps Interview

I listened to that interview. George says he didn't expect the book to do much and that guitarists at the time played mostly poorly voiced big chords. So he just threw the F in. I guess I will use regular Am triads for practise. I sort of expected a deeper explanation here, with the last three chords in his harmonized scale hinting at a II-V-I.

**monk** · 03-11-2013, 03:26 PM

Most of the few videos that exist of George Van Eps date from his later career when he was playing fingerstyle on an electric guitar. Yesterday, I found a kinescope from a 1956 TV show with Van Eps playing his Epiphone Deluxe acoustically with a pick.
He doen't get a lot of screen time but what there is, is priceless. This is a 30 minute video with a clear, audible shot of Van Eps playing rhythm at 9:46 and another of him taking a solo at 10:40.

For anyone who has studied Van Eps' Guitar Method and asked the question "What am I supposed to do with this stuff?", watch the solo and see him answer your question.

Enjoy,

Regards,
Jerome

Addendum: I thought that I was posting a link to the YouTube video rather than imbedding the video on the forum. If anyone knows how to except the Van Eps segments from the video, please let me know. I hate to take up bandwidth with a 30 minute video for a few seconds of guitar playing. Thanks.

**edward74** · 03-12-2013, 11:48 AM

I just wanted to say how great it was to discover the Ted Greene audio interview with George Van Eps. Incredible to hear a legend have casual interview with a great guitar educator. Fantastic resource! It would be great to listen to other guitar idols this way. Anyone others I should be made aware of?

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-10-2013, 04:28 AM

I have a fondness for exploring early important jazz guitar printed methods. My videos of lessons in the Mickey Baker book have been helpful to some. Now I'm working through the George Van Eps "Method For Guitar", which I believe he wrote in the very late 1930s, and is for 6-string guitar.

I have a dedicated page for this exploration on my website.

LINK: http://robmackillop.net/george-van-e...od-for-guitar/

Maybe one or two of you will join me in exploring this interesting method? There are no hot licks, no tunes, no advice on what scales to play over what chords, etc, etc, but you will get to know the fretboard a lot better, you will be developing a technique guided towards playing solo pick/plectrum style repertoire, and pick up great hints for developing your own arrangements.

It might be a "period" tutor, lacking the "instant jazz" appeal of Mickey Baker's book, but I would argue it might be of better long-term benefit. Worth a look, I'd say.

The website is a Work In Progress, and will grow over the coming weeks and months.

Once again: http://robmackillop.net/george-van-e...od-for-guitar/

**Eddie Lang** · 12-11-2013, 12:10 AM

I bought that book on ebay a few months ago, but I admit that I haven't spent much time with it yet.

Your videos may be a good incentive to dig into this. I am really looking forward to watch them in the next little while.

Thank you so much for all the videos and insight that you post here and on your website. Your enormous generosity as well as your delightful playing are always greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-11-2013, 02:59 AM

Well, many thanks for that, Richard

I've heard more and more murmurs about this Method over the last year, I just thought I'd take a look at it. And I found it very interesting. Van Eps was really quite unique in his time, even today his ideas can still sound fresh - though I'll leave off the Harmonic Mechanisms for a while!

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-11-2013, 02:16 PM

Van Eps' interesting take on chords in a minor scale... Exercise 26 has just been added:

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-12-2013, 06:45 AM

Van Eps has three versions of the minor scale. The one in the post above is the harmonic minor. This one is the rising melodic minor in ascent, but the regular harmonic minor in descent. Later comes the full melodic minor.

**KevinV** · 12-12-2013, 01:18 PM

Hello, Rob...

Thanks for doing this. I really dig Van Eps' playing and would love to work through his study material. Your videos are great and will make studying more enjoyable and accessible. Per his reccomendations I'm concentrating on the first 3 forms of the triads this week. Thanks again for doing this.

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-12-2013, 03:55 PM

Cheers, Kevin. Any questions, just ask. I can't say I'll know the answer, but someone here will.

Like Mickey Baker, Van Eps' has the habit of showing you six ways to do something, then says, "Do this in all twelve keys"! You know he's right, but I'd say get to know one key quite well before adding another, otherwise it can be a bit overwhelming.

Also, make sure you do his fingering - it is a bit odd at times, but he is laying the foundation for later movements.

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-13-2013, 08:23 AM

Here's the last of his three minor scale harmonisations, this time the melodic minor. This scale goes up one way, yet comes down a different way, which is a rather odd thing to do. It derived from the practice of singers, who like to sing sharp when rising, and flat when falling.

Here we have D Melodic Minor: D, E, F, G, A, B, C sharp, D - rising. And D C natural, B flat, A G F E D when falling.

Next up - 7ths.

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-14-2013, 10:21 AM

George Van Eps now explores 7th chords. I've put together Exercises 33 and 34, simply playing each in turn. But then I add a little exploration at the end of how we might apply these forms in regular playing, maybe comping or soloing. The formations could form the basis of chord soloing, or provide structure for single-note lines.

I do make a mistake in Ex.34, Form 2, where I play the 4th bar on strings 2 to 4 instead of 1 to 3 - sue me!

There are a few errors in the original text, which I detail on my web page:http://robmackillop.net/george-van-e...od-for-guitar/

**va3ux** · 12-14-2013, 03:12 PM

Years and years ago, I worked my way through that entire book. If he was hoping to impart some musical knowledge with all the exercises, I never got it. I ended up assuming the book was just technical exercises designed to develop the left hand proficiency. Deep down, I don't think that was his intent. But that's all it ended up being for me.

BTW, what guitar are you using in the videos ? And....very nice job

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-14-2013, 03:45 PM

That's why I add a section on practical application, but the book is new to me, and I'm only halfway through. I look forward to seeing what other people do with it.

The guitar is the Ibanez PM2, the cheaper of the two new Pat Metheny models. I replaced the pickup with a Harmonic Design Z90. Love the guitar, but need a better amp. It's going through the Yamaha THR5.

**bako** · 12-14-2013, 07:11 PM

Rob,

Nice work. Great idea and service to the studying community to document your educational book endeavors
in step by step video.

Do you have any insight into why George Van Eps chose to harmonize the VIth degree with an F chord instead of Am?

Thanks,
Bako

**Rob MacKillop** · 12-14-2013, 07:29 PM

Not definitely. He could have been looking at it as an approach to the tonic - the last three chords could be viewed as F G7 C - IV V I or even Dm7 G7 C - ii V I. But it is certainly ambiguous. I think these two sequences I've mentioned are more typical of his style and period of music than Am Bdim C. And I'm not convinced he set out to give a harmonised chord for each letter name.

Taking that that further, his sequence of chords could be interpreted as C Dm G6 F G Dm7 G7 C - in other words a series of ii V or IV V cadences before the tonic returns. Seen in this light, the chord movements take on a different importance.

But I might be completely wrong - and it's late at night, and I'm just off to bed

**FatJeff** · 12-14-2013, 09:10 PM

I'd like to join in on this thread. I downloaded the PDF of the Method book, and I'll have it printed off and spiral-bound tomorrow.

I've been taking lessons with Steve Herberman for a while now, and he is huge on Van Eps. His basement has pictures and posters and LP covers of Van Eps all over the place (along with Wes and Ed Bickert - pretty solid company, I'd say). Steve told me that years ago, he worked through the entirety of the Van Eps Harmonic Mechanisms books (yes, all 3 volumes), and it took him about 5 years of continuous effort. He was, in his own words, "pretty ruthless in following the fingerings exactly." But, he says, it informed his playing in an enormously fundamental way, and opened up many possibilities for more movement in his comping

For this reason, I myself am currently working through the Harmonic Mechanisms (HM) book, Volume 1. I am on about page 50 after a few months of daily work. And I will say this...the Van Eps HM book has really solidified my knowledge of triads. I thought I knew this stuff before, but in truth, I did not. I plan continue with my efforts and work through until I complete the 3 volumes of HM. It might be cool to see who else might like to come along for the ride once we make our way through this earlier Van Eps book. :-)