The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #101

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    Free again! The semester's over and that means a renewed devotion to serious studies outside of class demands. The modal compression book heads for the printers soon and that means distribution to a store in your neighborhood soon. Lots of examples, and a CD with examples and music played by Tim Miller and Mick. Soon.
    I want to talk Voice Leading Almanac and approaches a la Mick.
    The last I wrote here, I'd wanted to get some notes on how any of you tackle voice leading issues and how the Almanac plays a role in that. I'm back into revisiting and re-enforcing ideas in the next month. Here're some thoughts:
    I'm playing a lot of solo these days and I'm often reaching for voicings that have root movement in the lowest voice, sure it's the easiest to visualize but it means I have to get back to using voice leading better.
    So let me throw a wake up question out there, how many of you are actively voice leading your lines in a solo situation? When you comp? When you solo?
    I have lots of ideas that will make up my inter-session study but I'll throw them out there in the next post.
    David

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  3. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    Free again! The semester's over and that means a renewed devotion to serious studies outside of class demands. The modal compression book heads for the printers soon and that means distribution to a store in your neighborhood soon. Lots of examples, and a CD with examples and music played by Tim Miller and Mick. Soon.
    I want to talk Voice Leading Almanac and approaches a la Mick.
    The last I wrote here, I'd wanted to get some notes on how any of you tackle voice leading issues and how the Almanac plays a role in that. I'm back into revisiting and re-enforcing ideas in the next month. Here're some thoughts:
    I'm playing a lot of solo these days and I'm often reaching for voicings that have root movement in the lowest voice, sure it's the easiest to visualize but it means I have to get back to using voice leading better.
    So let me throw a wake up question out there, how many of you are actively voice leading your lines in a solo situation? When you comp? When you solo?
    I have lots of ideas that will make up my inter-session study but I'll throw them out there in the next post.
    David
    are you at Berklee or elsewhere? just curious. (and maybe a little bit envious)

  4. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    are you at Berklee or elsewhere? just curious. (and maybe a little bit envious)
    Yes, heart of Boston. Fortunate to be there, good to get away!
    David

  5. #104

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    great school. and well said.

  6. #105

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    Hi all, I've just joined this forum and this thread being my reason for doing so. I'm hugely intrigued as to your findings/work of your "Goodchord support group". I've been bashing away with volumes 1 since 2002 and volume since 2003. Are you all still wading through the books? I fully realise this thread is old and my post may drift into obscurity.

  7. #106

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    Hey there LozRuston, I have to admit I don't come around the forum much anymore, not being a gearhead and too busy worrying about not being distracted from the "hands on." But very good question. Who's making something out of all the voice leading and, what I'm interested in is, what is the process?
    The deeper I get into both diatonic and non diatonic harmony, the less inclined I am to talk about it. Don't get me wrong, I love finding people with whom I can share ideas, but it seems there is, for me, a huge disparity between knowing what the theory is, and using it as an improvisational tool to put together a really logical solo where the tools have their place and not for showcasing technique.
    So let me follow this bump with a slightly different question, what is the form in which work on these volumes actually takes? How much time did you spend on the cycles until it began to become spontaneous?
    I ask this to those who have specifically recognized a change in their style being informed by goodchord material.
    Yes, I've worked with people in a free-improv and over changes who've used voice leading and they're instantly recognizable. I don't know anyone who's integrated it without at least two months of real immersion. That's what I'm asking: Who's gotten there and what did it take, and what does it sound like?

    What cycles are of greatest use and over what time and meter situations do you apply this? One chord per beat? Arpeggiated? Do you continue a voice led line over key changes?

    These days I'm dividing my time between voice leading (within the harmony) and non tonal sequential or hybrid linear progressions, both of which I am ultimately working to integrate into song forms.
    Anyone out there have any thoughts beyond speculation? Who's done the homework? I'd love to hear.

    David

  8. #107

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    Lucked out and remembered a Berklee alum friend of mine had copies of book I and II, grabbed them from him last night. I'm looking forward to digging in.

  9. #108

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    I have a process I've started with, going through the book, and I am on the last cycle of triads in C major.

    For a given cycle, let's say the first one, cycle 2, I will:

    Play the close triads on the guitar
    Play the close triads on piano
    It helps to play through the entire cycle and sing along with the top voice, then sing along with the bottom voice, then sing along with the middle voice, but I'll admit to sometime skipping this step - I probably shouldn't!
    In my head, I will try to hear and see cycle 2 close triads on the fretboard for all 12 keys, which can take some time. After I do this, I can pick up the guitar and play through the close triads cycle 2 in all keys pretty quickly on the guitar.

    Then same exact process for the open triads.

    Then onto the next cycle, close then open.

    I've found the more I do this the faster I can get to a point where the cycle is just a sound that comes out somewhat automatically on the guitar, no matter what key. I'm hoping it won't be all that much more effort with the four part chords.

    I have been doing a lot of solo improvisation that is NOT based on any tune, and I think working with this material will help me in these performances...to have more of an awareness of each voice when I am improvising chords, and to just have a greater range of material.

    I've learned a lot of interesting little things even just in the few days I've spent with these first cycles.

    A few little things that have stuck out:

    obviously, spread triads are a more open sound than closed, a completely different texture.

    looking at keys in cycle format allows for an interesting perspective on harmonic options, going from one place to the other. you see all diatonic options in a very simple way.

    there are three ways to harmonize, diatonically, a melody note as a triad

    there are ten ways total to harmonize a melody note with a triad.

    register makes a huge difference

    being able to play through a cycle quickly, and in different keys, seems a worthy goal. I'm really big on making sure something is actually integrated into my playing and my fingers rather than just having an intellectual awareness of what's going on. I want to be able to play! But I think doing work to try to hear the movement without the instrument actually makes it easier to then put it on the instrument...but I intend to do tests to make sure I'm not BSing myself.

    There's always the balance between glossing over a large amount of material and becoming very fluent and familiar with a small amount of material.

    Anyway, more observations to come as I work through. There's a lot of tangential stuff I've realized even just from looking at the table of contents of these books.

  10. #109

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    I am very interested to read what you are getting out of these books.

    I hope to dig in one day myself, when I can find a copy...

  11. #110

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    I think the purpose of the thread was to share discoveries made with the material. I've found lots of little things and big things I liked. Here's a little thing - arpeggiating the spread triads of one of the cycles:



    let me know if anything is unclear.

    Could be a neat line or concept for any F melodic minor harmony:

    Fminmaj7, E7alt, Bb7#11

    I am tuned down two whole steps, to C, sorry, so the example is in concert Db (minor) rather than F as it appears.

    I hadn't practiced the fingering for the higher octave at the end so that was clunkier.
    Last edited by JakeAcci; 02-02-2013 at 03:06 PM.

  12. #111

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    Yeah! Really nice. Are you working with certain cycles or looking for a specific context to play a cycle over?
    I really like cycle 6 because every other chord is the pattern in cycle 4 which is so common in all jazz. I get to weave in and out of the harmony and every other change is just where you want it to be. I'll have to make an arrangement of All The Things with cycle 6 chord progressions.
    Nice playing, Jake!
    David

  13. #112

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    Thanks David!

    I am going through page by page and just listening and letting discoveries happen.

    Cycle 7 and Cycle 2 are interesting as they are laid out because they have the largest interval jumps between voicings, that was probably why Cycle 7 caught my ear here - it lends itself to this type of arpeggiation better than the other cycles. Not having repeated notes between chords is another factor that lends itself to smoother arpeggios.

  14. #113

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    Yeah, cycle 6 and 3 are the ones that evolve one note at a time.

    Part of the beauty of cycles is the timed arrival to a chosen destination,
    while integrating some additional engaging sounds along the way.

    Cycle 6 arrives at cycle 4 in 2 moves and at cycle 2 in 3 moves.
    Cycle 3 arrives at cycle 5 in 2 moves and at cycle 7 in 3 moves.

  15. #114

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    This stuff is fascinating to me... It is reason I joined this forum... I started working with the books.. I found all 3 vol. I just been going through them bit by bit. I sure been learning many chords and my voice leading chops have gotten better. I'm trying to find more applications of this stuff and the last few examples on this thread have some great ideas. Nice demo of the mel minor Jake... And I'd like to hear what kind of ways things like this , and TruthHertz's ideas as applies to ATTYA... Thanks y'all for sharing


    Todd

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako View Post
    Yeah, cycle 6 and 3 are the ones that evolve one note at a time.

    Part of the beauty of cycles is the timed arrival to a chosen destination,
    while integrating some additional engaging sounds along the way.

    Cycle 6 arrives at cycle 4 in 2 moves and at cycle 2 in 3 moves.
    Cycle 3 arrives at cycle 5 in 2 moves and at cycle 7 in 3 moves.
    YES! and it invites crossing the bar lines with poly metric phrasing, 3 changes over 2 bars is pretty out when you hear it, but all in the cycles. I'd say, though, that one of the greatest challenges is to get to know this stuff by ear. It's one thing to work out the fingerings (can be a lot of work) but until it's in the ear, it was too easy to lose context of the piece, the songform, of the tune I was working with. It's like keeping your focus on two things at once, but since it's all tonal, or tonal with a dominant substitution if you're working with melodic or harmonic minor, it's very consistent within the cycle.

    David

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddep View Post
    And I'd like to hear what kind of ways things like this , and TruthHertz's ideas as applies to ATTYA... Thanks y'all for sharing


    Todd
    here ya go!


  18. #117

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    Building on David's idea (the simple diatonic version) 1st 8 All The Things

    Cycle 6 (3 5 7 9---1 3 5 7)

    AbMa7 Fm7 | DbMa7 Bbm7 | Gm7b5 Eb7 | Cm7 AbMa7 |

    Fm7 DbMa7 | FMa7 Dm7 Bm7b5 G7 | Em7 Cma7 | (Am7 F#m7b5) ||

    Cycle 6 (5 7 9 11---3 5 7 9)

    Cm7 AbMa7 | Fm7 DbMa7 | Bbm7 Gm7b5 | EbMa7 Cm7 |

    AbMa7 Fm7 | Am7 FMa7 Dm7 Bm7b5 | GMa7 Em7 | CMa7 Am7 ||

    Cycle 6 generates a 2 voicings per chord option emphasizing various extensions
    depending where in the cycle you start. 7 9 11 13---5 7 9 11 (starting on Eb7 Cm7 etc.)
    is also possible but moves further astray from a clear statement of the chords
    which is a good or bad thing depending on.....

  19. #118

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    Thanks Bako for the quick reply and ideas, I'm gonna check this out soon..

    And thanks to Jake for the YouTube link, which leads me to my next question....

    What does Tim Miller eat for breakfast?

  20. #119

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    This is becoming an exciting thread and it's giving me good cause to revisit this material in a fresh way. Thanks!
    I want to throw out a thought that may be part of a larger issue, something that can impart a larger sense of individualism to this ocean of material: Phrasing.
    Because the voice leading permutations and cycles are presented in a, for a lack of a better term, mathematically exhaustive manner, there's a danger that, taken as is, it can become an exercise; cold and flat. Of course harmonically it's complex and rich, but I'd be really interested in how people are using this rhythmically.
    Too often, especially among the older bebop based practicioners, there's a criticism of modern players for being unintelligible. Formulaic. Unfeeling. This is due in part to material that is "run" without being sung. Now this Goodchord material is really challenging- to take these cycles and make them breathe the same way a uni-harmonic phrase would. The perspective of breathing is different, the architecture of pulse is different. But some players can make a solo breathe without compromising complex material... and other players are musical machine gunners. It should be a choice that comes from awareness, not a habit that you're left with from practicing without phrasing.
    Anybody else struggling with this issue, either in accepting this material, or finding a use for it, or making it fit into your own style?
    Did you know that Mick also wrote a book on rhythmic permutations? Ways of grouping notes with space that can make you very aware of beat, how to hear and use notes within a measure. It may or may not necessarily be of use, because personally, I think rhythmic sense is a very personal issue, maybe one that is introduced after the strictly melodic and harmonic ones have begun to become internalized.
    Anybody think about these things? Thoughts or musings?
    Some of this was alluded to in being able to fit 4 note voices within a space where 3 chords (to an arrival point) need to be covered. Some of it comes from just realizing that 4 notes might be 2 16th notes, a dotted quarter and an eighth in a series that will eventually make its own sense of cycle. Who knows?
    Just my present fascination with bringing life to these unexpected and amazing sounds.
    David

  21. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddep View Post
    What does Tim Miller eat for breakfast?
    Obviously "Rock Star!"

    I wonder if he covers any of the Goodrick voice-leading and/or chords (Miller/Goodrick book) in his online school??

  22. #121

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    Oh yeah, rhythm.
    So far I mostly have practiced this material 1 or 2 chords per bar choosing a basic rhythmic figure for each cycle that sometimes evolves. It is obvious that more can be done creatively and I will take your thoughts as impetus to integrate it into my practice.

    At the same time, there is also something said for keeping it simple, meditative, focusing on the movement of voices. Sometimes I play against the bass motion generated from Finale and other times I like to play each cycle against a drone of each note to teach my ears how well each chord functions as an extension or approach chord in relation to each modal degree.

    I am not as smart and patient as Jake, waiting till I fully master something before I move on.
    These are a few things that I think about, have jumped ahead and played around with.

    The integration of scale pairs, different strategies of alternating or combining the harmonies of 2 scales.
    On one hand it generates interesting esoteric sounds that surprise me in some ways, sounding both very fresh and at the same time just a small variation off of the 1 scale diatonic counterpart.

    I like to add improvised and or mechanical connective melodic content to the cycles.

    Another area that I have only touched upon is the integration of different voicing spreads alternating between 2.

    A thought I had this morning as yet unexplored, can songs be understood as multi scale, multi cycle collections as a compliment to the typical analysis methods. It of course begs the question, what is gained by this viewpoint to which my answer so far is I'm not sure.

    While the cycles themselves can be used as approach chords as in the example above, another possibility is to insert an approach chord (V7 or bII7 being the most obvious) before each chord in the cycle.

    The integration of 2 cycles.

    Cycle 4 with cycle 3 interpolated (borrowing a Sloninsky big word)

    I (III) IV (VI) VII (II) III (V) VI (I) II (IV) V (VII) I

    I operate on the idea that material I spend time with will somehow organically integrate itself into my playing but you raise the question as to how to be proactive in this regard. I saw a quote yesterday from Danilo Perez
    (my paraphrase) who said he felt overwhelmed initially at the level of improvising going on in the Wayne Shorter band, having difficulty following the movement of keys, etc.. He said he addressed this challenge by practicing improvising scores to cartoons with the sound turned down. Improvisation is about being fully engaged and less about executing the mechanics. How to integrate mechanical study efforts into creativity is a very important question.

  23. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako View Post
    Oh yeah, rhythm.


    The integration of 2 cycles.

    Improvisation is about being fully engaged and less about executing the mechanics. How to integrate mechanical study efforts into creativity is a very important question.
    Yeah, integrating 2 cycles of course. The flow of changes within a piece changes its intervallic relationship all the time, and with the voice leading cycles in the ear, it's great to voice lead through a piece, or add a two step cyclic element to the movement of changes.
    How about integration of two voicings within one cycle? Drop 2 and drop 3 can make a nice lateral movement of chord density while staying within a given cycle.
    Mixing and matching voicings has a lot of interesting potential.

    Wow, so much to work with. Heh, none of this stuff means a thing without a lot of time getting it in the ear. But it opens doors.

    Hey try this one: 1st 5 bars of All The Things cycle 6 drop 2. Turnaround of your own doing for 3 bars in C. 5 bars of Cycle 6 in Ab drop 3 or something even more spread if you're arpeggiating. Turnaround of your choice for 3 bars in G.
    That could shake things up.

    Possibilities.
    David

  24. #123

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    I really can't thank you guys enough for sharing your investigations into this material on this forum.

    I don't have a copy of the books, but I am able, using the foundations Mr. Goodrick provides in Advancing Guitarist to derive the basic principles of the Almanac... Reading about your discoveries and the applications you have discovered has been very inspiring and provided me with a great deal of material to investigate in my own practice.

    i have benefitted greatly from your efforts and just wanted to know that you guys have a "fan" out there in the jazz guitar internet universe.

    jerome

  25. #124

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    Does anyone have a copy of vol. 2 or 3 that they would sell. Or a pdf? (since it's out of print). Pm me if anyone has pertinent info. Thanks!

  26. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako View Post
    Building on David's idea (the simple diatonic version) 1st 8 All The Things

    Cycle 6 (3 5 7 9---1 3 5 7)

    AbMa7 Fm7 | DbMa7 Bbm7 | Gm7b5 Eb7 | Cm7 AbMa7 |

    Fm7 DbMa7 | FMa7 Dm7 Bm7b5 G7 | Em7 Cma7 | (Am7 F#m7b5) ||

    Cycle 6 (5 7 9 11---3 5 7 9)

    Cm7 AbMa7 | Fm7 DbMa7 | Bbm7 Gm7b5 | EbMa7 Cm7 |

    AbMa7 Fm7 | Am7 FMa7 Dm7 Bm7b5 | GMa7 Em7 | CMa7 Am7 ||

    Cycle 6 generates a 2 voicings per chord option emphasizing various extensions
    depending where in the cycle you start. 7 9 11 13---5 7 9 11 (starting on Eb7 Cm7 etc.)
    is also possible but moves further astray from a clear statement of the chords
    which is a good or bad thing depending on.....
    Cool...Just spent some time with these at the piano...

    Expanding on the first example, some form of 'modal interchange' (not really?) by borrowing the first chord of every pair from the parallel melodic minor but keeping the second as is. the dominants get melodic minor for both beats:

    AbMa7#5 Fm7 | DbMa7#5 Bbm7 | Gmaj#5 Eminmaj7 | C7 AbMa7 |

    F7 DbMa7 | FMa7#5 Dm7 Bma7#5 G#minma7 | E7 Cma7 | (Aminma7 F#m7b5) ||

    it still is cycle 6 throughout, I like the alternation between Mm and major scale to add a bit of tension...I'm sure the concept doesn't have any limits...
    Last edited by JakeAcci; 02-07-2013 at 11:51 AM.