The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1101

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    Thanks, David!

    Best wishes for everyone's music and looking forward to meeting again


    PK

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #1102

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    How’d it go guys?

  4. #1103

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    Hi Christian

    An excellent evening - two hours flew by and it was brilliant to see the faces behind the names on the Forum, plus some of the Alt Gtr Summit guys as well. As you'd expect, the various descriptions of working with the Almanacs were very illuminating.

    My big take-aways about the cycles was about hearing the chord roots. I'm also getting used to David's 'roman numeral fingerboard' - it's a useful device to commit to memory.

    David stressed the importance of ear-skills - in particular, hearing the root movement between the 4 voices (soprano, alto, tenor, bass) while playing the cycles.

    He also asked what our own experience of the Almanacs was:

    mine is a 15-years-plus journey through The Advancing Guitarist / Almanacs, using them to learn more about harmonic theory and its hands-on application to the guitar; and then, just as importantly, going beyond the guitar as well (that's your Partimento and figured bass, Christian). I'm comfortable with notation but the graphic representation used in the Almanacs is a great parallel way of seeing harmony – very clearly – I now use it fairly often to notate chord sequences.

    One lovely comment struck a chord: "Play the Harmonic Minor cycles and you'll find Bach in there". I've often felt that Bach, as a young man, might have written out something similar to the Almanacs as a means of 'working out' the set of all harmonic possibilities ...

    More later - got to dash.

    All the best
    Mick W

  5. #1104

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    I agree, nice to put faces to the names.

    The points that Mick said above, chord roots and harmonic minor cycles, were great points made last night but also the fact that we were playing a cannon in the example that David provided. Very cool!

    This morning I was experimenting with highlighting the roots then the thirds with a small melodic line

    For example using cycle 2 from last night play the Cmaj7 and on the root play something simple as D-C or E-D-C then for the Dm7 play E-D or F-E-D on the D note.

    For me this emphasizes the root but it's purely diatonic so nothing exciting. I'll be experimenting more with this concept over the next few days.

    Oh you can sing any movement as well if it falls in your range of course.

    Lots more to explore so exciting times ahead.

  6. #1105

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    I feel the same way. I am still new to this forum and was curious to meet people interested in Mick Goodrick's work. It has been very informative and eye opening for me. I just tried splitting cycle 2 into groups of two (dyads) by playing the outer voices and then the inner voices, which gave some nice textures and helped me hear the moving voices even better.


    I think we can all benefit from sharing ideas and application examples or even presenting our compositions. I am definitely looking forward to the next meeting.


    And since some participants yesterday talked about having been to the alternative guitar summit, I'm curious. Is the accommodation included in the workshop or do you look for a pension, hotel or Airb&B on site. Are any of you planning to be at the next guitar summit.

  7. #1106

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    Quote Originally Posted by mheton
    And since some participants yesterday talked about having been to the alternative guitar summit, I'm curious. Is the accommodation included in the workshop or do you look for a pension, hotel or Airb&B on site. Are any of you planning to be at the next guitar summit.
    Tickets — Alternative Guitar Summit Camp
    Your Teaching Team — Alternative Guitar Summit Camp

    The lineup of instructors is fantastic. I'm not there in any teaching capacity but I am documenting it on video and I'm going to be providing luthier/repair services and it's my plan to offer maybe a daily gathering of us to discuss, share and if we care, perform using ideas that have grown out of our experience from this material. It's always cool to see the peripherally profound applications of this stuff...and since Julian, Kurt, Wayne Krantz and Bill Frisell are among us for the week, it'd be really cool to actually have them in our gatherings; they're all Almanac alums.
    Food (really GOOD food) and lodging (nice lodgings at many levels of comfort) are a part of the provisions. You just check in and it's a week of mind blowing learning in one of the most beautiful parts of the world I've spent time in. Peaceful. Inspiring. Casual. Serious insight at your access.
    Joel Harrison is a member of the community here on the forum. You can PM him with questions or concerns too.

  8. #1107

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    Quote Originally Posted by mheton
    I just tried splitting cycle 2 into groups of two (dyads) by playing the outer voices and then the inner voices, which gave some nice textures and helped me hear the moving voices even better.
    Wait 'til you get into some of the impossible to finger voicings, ones with really wide spreads that CAN be played as dyads... they create lines and wide intervals that can be the basis of a soloing texture you never imagined playing, no less being able to control in a real time soloing situation.
    Triads over bass notes give you clusters, spread clusters, voice led possibilities into textures that Johnny Smith only hinted at.
    I can't wait to hear what you guys discover and can share.

  9. #1108

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    Of course the Bach Harmonic Minor thing got to me so I've just been messing with harmonic minor drop 2 top 4 strings. 1st inversion does it for me but if course chord 3 isn't easy to finger. I'll keep at it though. Such beautiful dissonance from that inversion.

    Here's Ben talking a out his old practice schedule


  10. #1109

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    Now I wonder why is it that drop 2/4s sound better as single note lines than drops 3s? More consistent intervals?

    I suppose they are quite akin to open triads and those always sound awesome

  11. #1110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    Of course the Bach Harmonic Minor thing got to me so I've just been messing with harmonic minor drop 2 top 4 strings. 1st inversion does it for me but if course chord 3 isn't easy to finger. I'll keep at it though. Such beautiful dissonance from that inversion.

    Here's Ben talking a out his old practice schedule

    Everything sounds better in harmonic minor innit

  12. #1111

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    With material as dense, supercompressed with information and far reaching in implication, it's truly hard to even touch on even a fraction of the Almanac mind set in a forum (Damn! This thread is over a THOUSAND posts!).
    I had near two hours of non stop talking and incredibly inspiring commentary and stream of consciousness tangents that kept true to the dimensions of going from vertical thinking (changes and chords) to horizontal thinking (multiple voices with equality of internal movement and non-root specific harmonic structures of texture and tension manipulation)...and more.
    It made me realize that a Zoom format was made for exploration of multidimensionality and individual real time cooperative revelations and oblique approaches.
    I'm still thinking of finite topics to cover next time. I'm looking forward to it.

  13. #1112

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    So during the meeting I mentioned a song that I wrote which David and Mick W liked. This is the tune below. It starts with a 1625 though not many people hear it.
    There are extensions, chromaticism and dissonance....my favourite type of music
    Anyway I've been writing some nice stuff in this vein which I plan to record so I thought that I'd start a channel just for this project.
    If you have a channel of your own where you post this kind of music (Goodrick, Monder etc inspired) please let us know as I'd be keen to check it out.
    In the meantime I hope that you like this short piece.
    Peace
    https://youtube.com/shorts/yT8kEt2KdZU?feature=share

  14. #1113

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    Just formed an Email group to go with the ZOOM group. Let me know in PM if you didn't receive the first mail out.

  15. #1114

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    Did Mick Goodrick know about this thread?

  16. #1115

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnoL
    Did Mick Goodrick know about this thread?
    Yes - see his post in reply to Kai in the comments Mikko Hilden's YouTube review of Almanac Volume 2:


  17. #1116

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnoL
    Did Mick Goodrick know about this thread?
    He most certainly did. I started this thread a long time ago (as TruthHertz) and I was also Mick's care giver until his last breath as I was by his side.
    We talked a lot about the concepts but after his retirement, he leaned more pronouncedly towards "That was a world from long ago. I can't even think about what to do with it now. That's your job." and he left the public and private use of this materials in my hands.
    My full time care of him precluded any progress in reformatting this for a publisher and many publishers outright rejected the association because they didn't see a practical use in it (Mel Bay, Sher, Berklee Press, Hal Leonard are among the long list of "You've got to be kidding" rejections).

    Since I've put Mick to rest, the fate of the Almanacs is in my hands. I have made the decision that it's not for me to take any profits for his work and he wanted so much that his teachings should pave the way for a paradigm shift in improvisational possibilities.
    I'm going to work with Tim Miller and create a website where Goodchord Almanacs Volume 1,2 and 3 will be public domain for everyone.
    I'm also working with a core of interested students and seasoned players to create a broadly informative yet open ended approach to understanding and using this material. This work I will be published by the end of the year.

    That group meets on Zoom once a month and is open to everyone and anyone of any level, lurkers are most valuable as they ask questions from a perspective that will be precisely what I'm trying to reach.

    Mick was very pleased and always enthusiastic about the revelations of myself and my peers and he'd always add some deep well of insight. In our later days, we'd come up with things he hadn't thought of (chromatics and voice led symmetrical scales) and it pleased him to no end to hear about these things. He had a mind that was addicted to puzzles and connections. This work and its logical growth thereof were his joy of life.

  18. #1117

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    thank you for sharing your impressions. i find it impressive that you care about the continuation of micks work.
    i am looking forward to our next zoom meeting

    all the best

  19. #1118

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    Wish that I wasn't teaching in a few minutes. Just played something very nice using cycles and would like to get stuck in.

    Looking forward to tomorrow evening

  20. #1119

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    Thanks David for organizing and thanks to everyone that attended.

    An interesting meeting with lots of little things to work on or at least experiment with.

    * Write out the cycles and see where to clusters of major and minor chords are

    * Pick a cycle and sharpen the 5th if a chord for a moment if dissonance only to be corrected by the next chord

    * Use inversions to fill space

    * It's all about the resolution

    * To go outside play major or minor etc over chromatic bass.

    In partimento there's a thing called the rule of the octave which follows a scalar bass. Worth experimenting with.

    * Use TBN for suspended textures

    * Play each cycle with different feel, style and) or tempo etc. Make it musical.

    Going forward I'm happy to keep writing my own material with the cycles with the aim of recording one short piece per month.

    What will you guys be working on this month?

  21. #1120

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    sounds very interesting. Hope I can attend again next time...

  22. #1121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    Thanks David for organizing and thanks to everyone that attended.

    An interesting meeting with lots of little things to work on or at least experiment with.

    * Write out the cycles and see where to clusters of major and minor chords are

    * Pick a cycle and sharpen the 5th if a chord for a moment if dissonance only to be corrected by the next chord

    * Use inversions to fill space

    * It's all about the resolution

    * To go outside play major or minor etc over chromatic bass.

    In partimento there's a thing called the rule of the octave which follows a scalar bass. Worth experimenting with.

    * Use TBN for suspended textures

    * Play each cycle with different feel, style and) or tempo etc. Make it musical.

    Going forward I'm happy to keep writing my own material with the cycles with the aim of recording one short piece per month.

    What will you guys be working on this month?
    Tonight's session was highly enjoyable: many thanks, David and everyone. Here are a few of the ideas that I'll be working on next week, in addition to some of the others, already listed, above:

    –David re-emphasised the importance of developing the ear using this material, hearing the roots as they appear in the various voices, and then the other component parts, as well. To my mind, this is about having an awareness of the roots, rather than a requirement to emphasise them when playing, which creates a weird angular line that that doesn't sound melodic (to me) ... nevertheless, I'll also try singing them for reference.

    – He also told of how intensely Mick Goodrick studied Julian Bream's recordings of Bach, for a year or more, before In Pas(s)ing was recorded in 1978. (Richard pointed out to me that The Advancing Guitarist recommends listening to the Bach Chaconne BWV 1004, which Bream recorded in the 1950s). There's also a clear connection with the Almanacs' sequences, right there.

    – it was inspiring watching Christian working through some of the 'outside' playing ideas in real time (These sounded similar to the 'Grip Slipping' studies in Almanac Vol. 3).

    – Barry's comment, about how we negotiate bigger intervallic leaps in melodies, will provide much food for thought. This topic feels important for the practical application of the cycles to standards and to other compositions.

    Kind regards,
    Mick W

  23. #1122

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    ... I mentioned Christian Saggese at the Zoom chat tonight - he's done some interesting crossover work from classical to jazz/rock (including some Allan Holdsworth pieces). Lots of his tips etc., on YouTube here: Guitar Secrets

    All the best
    Mick W

  24. #1123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    What will you guys be working on this month?
    I'm going to try to touch on four areas each meeting:
    1) Some new idea or concept from the Almanacs and why I think it has some importance. It might be how to use a scale, it might be how to use some guideline on the cycles page...
    2) An open discussion on the different ways we look at the improvisational process and some ways that the Almanacs can expand or reframe our ideas so we can open up new possibilities.
    3) Some practical take away that can show a useful way to expand our improvisations.
    4) Collective discussions on ways we've discovered to practice this in our pursuits to sharpen our ears, visualization, kinesthetics and theoretical guidelines (awareness and direction).

    What we get out of our time and what's important to you at the moment is all up to you. I just want our time together to open up possibilities, provide expanding vision and give us inspiration.

    Maybe I'll take a standard and we can talk about how we might use a given harmonic form as a springboard for new unimagined sounds.

  25. #1124

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    I think doing a standard is a great idea. Maybe the A section of a 32 bar tune might be a manageable chunk at first.

    So the chromatic bass/chromatic major
    seventh thing, by bass

    Cmaj7
    Gmaj7/B
    Ebmaj7/Bb
    Bbmaj7/A
    Abmaj7
    Then I put a G7sus4

    but you could keep going and end up with a convoluted Coltrane cycle I guess. This example strikes me as akin to Lady Bird turnaround.

    You can also use the soprano voice as David said and then you end up with different cycles depending on the voicing. So I was using drop 3, so we start with a G in the top voice. We go
    5-7-1-3 on top if we go root, 1st, 2nd, 3rd inversion … so

    Cmaj7
    Gmaj7/B
    Fmaj7/C
    Cmaj7/B
    Abmaj7

    interestingly although the cycle is different we end up in the same place… the Abmaj7. I think this would be true for all voicing types, because we are descending the same interval into root position, whatever chord tone is in sop

    I think it’s good to focus on the top note and improv it for different voicings and chord qualities? That would allow its use as an on the fly reharmonisation technique. even if you get the cycle ‘wrong’ I suspect it would still sound cool.

  26. #1125

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    Wow, I'm just thinking over the sheer depth and breadth of what we covered yesterday. Here are a few of my favourite takeaways:
    Creating new linear possibilities from chord forms by playing a chord as two dyads, or dyads combined with a single note.
    That discussion on visualization of the fingerboard and the ways we can use complete fingerboard visualization to navigate the chords as we voice lead them.
    Cycles moved non diatonically over diatonic bass notes.
    Non diatonic bass note movement over diatonic cycles.
    Entire chord sequences based on a consistent inversion grouping moving non diatonically to a convergence with the harmony.
    Cycles in three part 4ths (We've GOT to get deeper into this one!)
    Sequences.
    Creating new songforms, tempi, even new genres based on hearing the cycle material in new ways.
    And the amazing wealth of ideas that different people are bringing to the group with peripheral things that are springing out of the general ideas we introduce.
    Discussions about history and evolution of harmonic concepts and really breaking open those traditions with new ways to order harmony in a compositional and improvisational way.

    This is turning out to be richer than I ever imagined and I didn't even realize it until I picked up the guitar and started playing with these ideas.

    I'm really looking forward to the next gathering.
    These sessions remind me of talks I'd have with Mick. Always open to new ideas to try and increasing the web of what can be done and how...then doing it.