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Sorry Jake, there are two parties involved. Official word would have to be no. But let's figure out some way that the material itself could be shared. I'd love for interested people to be able to enrich this little subset of the forum.
David
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03-28-2013 01:02 PM
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+1 I would like to see if the people that have access to the material can somehow be able to make it available. Reading the post about the guy who borrowed them from his library gave me an idea,although this is probably more easier if you live in the US. Im currently working in Hong Kong, im also currently doing a part time Masters so i approached my University library to see if they can do an inter library loan from the US, and wether the US library is willing to send it between countries. Will let you know how i fare, they say it will take a few weeks to check, there is some sort of cue for these queries apparently. From what ive seen Part 1 and 2 seem available but i havent seen part 3 available in libraries, so this seems the hardest volume for most people to get their hands on.
Regards
SJS
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Reach me on this forum or preferably in a private message through this forum. I have all three volumes and could find some way to work with a library. Good idea.
Originally Posted by Jazzism
David
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I want to ask if the goodrick books are useful for chord melody. If I have to take care in putting the melody note in the higher string, it is impossible to observe this and the cycles rules at the same time. May be the position of the high note is not so important if you pick the chord notes at the same time (fingerstyle) but sure it is for strumming.
Goodrick rules are only about to keep the common tones between chords, I think is a superb effort but nothing you couldn't discover by yourself.
May be I'm wrong?
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sji,
The cycles are not a rule. They just cover all the possibilities of progressing within the harmonies of a scale/note collection.
For example in the major scale Ima7 goes to:
Cycle 2-IIm7
Cycle 3-IIIm7
Cycle 4-IVma7
Cycle 5-V7
Cycle 6-VIm7
Cycle 7-VIIm7b5
Melodies and consequentially chord melody is somewhat more complex than voice led cycle progressions and you will not find the solution to every situation searching the books. That said, I am better prepared to find a workable solution on the fly than I was before I practiced this material.
This is true. I had studied similar material with diatonic cycles with a jazz teacher many years prior.I think is a superb effort but nothing you couldn't discover by yourself.
Mick took it to another level of thoroughness and graphically did an excellent job of documenting the
movement of chord tones through each chord cycle. Although it was nothing new to me, it provided the impetus to dig in deeper and for this I am thankful to him.
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It's all up to you. Originally Posted by sjl
I'm reminded of a conversation I had with Ben Monder. I asked him if he'd worked with the Almanacs. He said he wished he'd had them ten years previous, meaning he'd done much of that work on his own in the interim, with a lot of use of Bach chorales. He built an entire style from his own take and assimilation of voice leading, and still he did find them useful for the sheer breadth and scope of the material revealed.
There's a LOT of stuff in the Almanacs. Some of it you'll play and you'll say "Hello there J.S. yeah I knew I'd find you in here somewhere" and other stuff you'll play and people will say "What kind of guitar is that? Mine doesn't do that!"
It's up to you. If you work out a good voice leading method on your own, you will be better off, because it will be yours. Go for it. If you want to see some of the stuff you would not have imagined, or see it in a way you may not have seen the logic of, then take a peek at the Almanacs. There's stuff, lots of stuff that Mick admits he will never play. He has gotten what he needs. But it's all there. Literally.
Also, don't underestimate its power as an ear training tool. It could very well help you develop a kick ass command of getting around the fingerboard by ear in four voices.
I'd warn you not to look at this as a guide to being able to play this way. That's ALL up to you, and a lot of time and work doing things you probably never were taught. But as bako says, it's a tool that gives you an instant birds eye view of many unimagined possibilities.
When you get to volume three, watch out. Some of that stuff is REALLY OUT.
As to your question about chord melody, absolutely. When thinking of chord choice, awareness of roots, their locations, the proximity of outer and inner voices, movement up and down or across the neck are all taken into consideration. The Goodchord really helps me keep sound and awareness in the equation. Again, you'll have to adapt the material, but since it's not to be taken as complete pieces but rather templates of movement, these books hold much for the chord soloist.
... if you internalize it.
David
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Yes, adding to Bako and David, one way to look at this material is that its really all about what you do with it. It's not a method book nor is it supposed to help with some specific area of playing the guitar. I think of it more like a map of the ocean that you can look at and go "oh, how interesting that that's how the ocean works...wow, the more I look at this, the more I think I understand the ocean...hey isn't that a unique little section of the ocean right there...oh but look, there's another one just like it on the other side..."
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I appreciate very much your answers, but, anyway the books are not available.
Am I wrong again?
At the other hand. I am into Barry Harris harmony (Alan Kingstone book) and I think its voice leading solution is as easy as it can be, just put a diminished chord in between (he uses substitutions as well).
In Randy Vincent's drop 2 book he offers solutions for using different voicings than diminished in non chord tones, another great book.
I know guitarists are often scared about the easy ways of doing something but why to stay away of them.
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No, they're not available presently or...who knows.
Easy is good but nothing complex about what is in the Almanacs.
Book I and II anyway deal with scale based material mechanically and systematically moving different chord types through cycles with voice leading.
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sjl, not that it really benefits me to defend Mick's books, but I'd propose that you look at the material from a different angle. Originally Posted by sjl
The material you mention might be about solving problems with jazz voicings and directly giving the reader material for comping or arranging. That's very useful, the almanacs do not attempt to do that. It's a different type of resource, just like a dictionary, a thesaurus, an encyclopedia, and a book on etymology are all different types of resources.
You mention the "easy way of doing something" but there isn't a thing that the almanacs are specifically trying to achieve, the point is that they are what you make of them. That is different than Barry Harris's or Randy Vincent's material, which attempts to provide tangible solutions to tangible musical problems. Very different.
The almanacs are not, in my opinion, 'must have' material for every jazz guitarist, as I think a guitarist can learn to play beautifully in a variety of contexts (solo, duo, trio, modern, swing, bebop, whatever) without even being familiar with the basic premise of the books. They're a resource that ask the reader to come up with their own applications.
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I understand you Jake.
It is something like Ted Greene books, where you go in order to take ideas.
I hope they will be again on the market!!
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That is exactly the way Mick described it to me as he was writing them. "You have the ocean, and there are fish everyone knows about, they catch them and see them all the time. But beneath the surface are fish you don't see, deep sea squids people have only heard about. And then there are the REALLY weird fish with all these glowing parts and there are things you never imagined. It's all in there. " Originally Posted by JakeAcci
This is his mathematical and systematic search for all the fish in the ocean. You will not become an expert on anything by dabbling with the books, but for the inquiring mind, you have a big book of fishes.
David
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Do I need a horrible guitar for learning this books?
Miller, Lofsky, Goodrick, and the antiarchtop brigade.
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Ha ha! Don't forget Ed Bikert's tele.
Yeah, how 'bout when Mick played that tiny Hohner body-less headless canoe paddle? It's further proof that when it's about the music, an instrument is just an instrument. That being said, he's sounding great on a custom archtop these days. But he also sounds great on a hundred dollar ukelele he plays too. Not fair.
Hey does anybody else find that the more one finds immersion in the challenge of the music, the less room there is for obsession about guitar acquisition? Just a question of curiosity. Something I find true for myself anyway.
David
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Good point there!!
More about music and less about the tool!
We are the instrument.
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what about some kind of common re-writing of the books in an open document format? Originally Posted by JakeAcci
I don't guarantee it's 100% bulletproof, but my sample website could be used to copy/paste the progressions...
It should be a matter of patience in formatting and editing the pages...
It's a lot of work, but divided in chunks could be feasible...
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I agree on all the answers you got form these fine guys that for sure work a lot more than me on this topic.. Originally Posted by sjl
I'd only add that chord melody is related for sure to all this Goodrick stuff, but a bit more loosely, due to the fact that you have to respect a top melody line, and that sometimes this voice leads to some "improper" passing chords, that in that spot are the best sounding solution, without being contemplated in any theory book...
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There is a guy in Spain called Jordi Farrés (Jordi Farrés ? GUITAR) who has a book about Van Eps techniques, and he doesn't find a publisher for it.
The editorial world is a very strange but may be, we are a very little piece of market.
If an intelligent (may be a romantic one) publisher is reading this, it is time to republish the almanac!
(And the Farres' book as well).
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and of course, that's the stuff i'm interested in Originally Posted by TruthHertz
the triad and 7th chord cycles are great, but they're not hard to figure out on your own.
but the fourth voicings/triads over bass notes/other stuff? oh yes, please
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what does his book contain that's not covered by Van Eps' own books? Originally Posted by sjl
a more "practical" guide through Van Eps' system is certainly needed
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I don't know the details but I am sure that is going to be a digested view of Van Eps books.
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On the gear page forum there is a thread with this line in it.
Drop 3 Voice Leading - Goodrick - The Gear Page
there's a guy over on the jazz guitar forum that came up with some formulas for
this.
He also made some web pages that can print out any of the almanac
pages.
I kind of remember this. Can anyone point me to these formulas and the web pages?
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I found the books not very helpful. I would have much preferred that they used standard chord progressions, such as Stella, Giant Steps, etc, rather than cycles within a single scale, to illustrate the voice leading possibilities.
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Rsilver, I think comments have already been made addressing your criticism. Also, nothing is stopping you from applying what you get from the books towards standard progressions.
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Big oversight in the books. Want to sell them to me cheap? Originally Posted by Rsilver
David
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