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Definitely three part 4ths.
Just got a cool cycle going where I play what I played last night but I try to add a three part 4th every now and then.
For example last night I started with Am(maj)7 - Dm7.
Now I have Am(maj)7 - A9 (my three part 4th with bass) - Dm7.
Sounds very cool.
Mick W. I like theory too but prefer to use it to get to the end result of writing a piece of music.
Also having thought about it when I play I use my eyes ( looking at the fretboard), my mind ( working out where I am and where everything is) and my ears ( following what I heard in my mind).
Happy picking all
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02-26-2023 05:09 PM
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This is Mick's explanation of voice leading ideas and a composition of his based on those ideas
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Instantaneous ear knowledge is essential in being able to identify (know) any voice within the chord so you can make a decision to where and how to voice lead it. Once you can get your ear to this place, take any voice within a chord you're playing, move it or make it a constant tone, make that your new root and your knowledge of voicings will give your instant voice led harmony.
Originally Posted by Liarspoker
If you like the results of those chord combinations, file it away and you've increased your lexicon.
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Parallel 3 Note 4th Arpeggios - Score.pdfParallel 3 Note 4th Arpeggios.mp3Parallel 3 Note 4th Arpeggios - Score.pdfParallel 3 Note 4th Arpeggios.mp3
Parallel 3 note 4th chord arpeggios.
This was a cool sound I stumbled on years ago.
Wondering what effect voice leading them instead of parallel motion would yield???
They are mostly cycle 3 (1-3, 3-5, 5-7) and cycle 2 (7-1).
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you get little chunks of contrary motion which is nice. More effective sounding than cycle 4/5 imo. Originally Posted by bako
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Can you explain Christian? I just had a quick look and could only see similar motion. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Nice to see you last night. Are you applying this stuff with any Bach concepts in mind?
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My example is parallel motion as you observe in the pdf.
Christian is referring to cycle 3 voice led through the inversions.
my parallel arpeggio:
CFB EAD GCF BEA
voice led with cycle 3 becomes:
CFB DEA CFG BEA
Mick Goodrick's functional voice leading scheme cycle 3 in 4ths in vol 2:
5 down to 2
2 up to 1
1 down to 5
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Typo: that second cycle is cycle 2
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Hello, all!
I’m excited to be part of this inspiring group. This weekend’s discussion of the descending bassline voice leading reminded me of an exercise Mick showed me. I think it was eventually published in his Guitar Player column, maybe called “Grip-ology?” I’ll do my best to describe it, and maybe later I can dig up the original lesson or at least re-notate what I recall
Take a drop-2 Cmaj7, rooted on the 5th string, spelled C-G-B-E. Consider the C in the bass. What other drop-2 maj7 contain that note? Play a first inversion AbMaj7, 2nd inversion Fmaj7, and 3rd inversion DbMaj7, all from that low C. Then move on to the G in the tenor voice, and repeat the process…
I’m not sure it gives you much that you’d use in a playing situation verbatim, but I found it really useful in raising my awareness of each voice within what was once just a ‘grab’…
PK
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French chaconne
Dm Bb/D Gm/D
C Am/C F/C
Bb Gm/Bb Eo/Bb
A A+ Dm/A Asus4 A :||
(3 step Cycle 3 on descending tetrachord
OR C3 C3 C4 x4 then cadence. No reason why the pattern couldn’t be taken further)
If this doesn’t make you feel like an effete 17th century aristocrat, nothing will
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Hit The Road, Jaques?
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I usually pick a few chords I like from a page.
These sounds good to my ears, if a bit of a stretch.
Last edited by GuyBoden; 03-01-2023 at 05:19 AM.
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Hello Guy
Interesting sounds - and it's slightly easier up the octave – the fourth chord in your sequence, 3 6 3 2 x x, is really fighting back at me, when I play it as written!
All the best
Mick W
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Yes, the last chord is the most difficult, I play the "G" on the 8th fret, but I'm playing a 7 string. Originally Posted by Mick Wright
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Ah yes, seven strings. It had crossed my mind – I remember now. I'd half-managed a 2nd finger pivot bar on the 3rd fret for the G and F, with the A behind it ... (I'll not try that again!)
All the best
Mick W
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I don't use the 7th string for low notes, but to give me more options of range within a set span of frets. Did you ever play something around the 7th fret, want access to notes below the fifth fret? A guitar fingerboard with all those notes is right there without shifting. THAT's the real power of the 7 string for me. Three octaves, 7 ranges of unitar under my hands at any given time. Originally Posted by Mick Wright
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I agree, having played five-stringed bass for many years that's certainly their great advantage - plus the low C in an F Blues!
We mentioned the Bach Chaconne at the weekend: Raphaella Smits plays a beautifully mellow version on a remarkable 19th cemtury eight-stringed instrument:
All the best,
Mick W
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For sure when I play Bach I find myself pining for an extra string or two.
Them I remember the time I played a traditional Brazilian Choro guitar and how much that messed with my head haha
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Goran’s guitar looks basically like a guitar version of a theorbo…. Ooh another chaconne
did you know Weiss once had a cutting contest with Bach?
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Also, some of Mr GoodChord voice leading is much easier to fret in a different tuning.
I know this might be a non-jazz approach, but it works.
A full set is on Reverb for £463 + shipping, eeek.
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Nice to see you to! TBH I’m not sure I have any Bach concepts … most of what I’m looking at comes from Italian sources and probably relates more to composers like Scarlatti, Corelli etc. The German tradition has some overlaps but they taught in a slightly different way that I’m not sure I know so much about. Originally Posted by Liarspoker
Also JS Bachs music was… massively prog? A lot of people found it over complicated and elaborate at the time, so it’s not typical of the era. Things like his fugues are atypically complex for the time even though we now take them as the absolute archetype of what a fugue is. (Although I note his fugues for lute are more relaxed in terms of the texture and number of voices probably down to the limitations of the lute compared to the keyboard.)
Anyway, there’s a lot in Bach that relates to the Italian stuff, so it’s not impossible to understand from
thaf standpoint esp dance movements in the lute suites and so on. As to what JS himself taught, we there’s a discussion here
Notably his students afaik all wrote more Italianate ‘Galant’ music rather than Bach’s style. We also have his son's (CPE) book which is very much a 'how to' practical guide for improvising composers and contains some great stuff to play around with.
In terms of how this relates to Mick? I’m not yet sure. There’s obviously overlap. The baroque approach was conceptually different to modern harmony, so it's knowing enough to know when the same thing is being discussed in different theoretical language and when it is genuinely different.
I suspect the more I learn about both the more it will converge. Definitely noticing though that working from the bass and melody can result in 'spiritually' connected but stylistically different ideas. I note that the descending chromatic bass example we talked about on Sat is the chromatic lamento bass for instance. Things like Coltrane cycles could be understood in a similar way. You also have stuff that comes up in Wayne Shorter. I think that's what interests me most - a way of taking things I've learned from baroque and classical stuff and applying them to modern harmony in an oblique sort of way. If that makes any sense.... I'm certain the more I get into this the more I'll see composers like Kenny Wheeler, Wayne and Herbie doing it ...
Anyway …Last edited by Christian Miller; 03-01-2023 at 05:58 AM.
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Cool, thanks Christian. Just saw your post now. Will read later.
Just had a cancellation so thought I'd record something I'm working with. There are so many options when you're writing stuff. I'll get there. Hopefully before the next meeting.
Cycle 4 followed by cycle 3. A harmonic minor. Second chord is a three part 4th in TBN.
More later.
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When we had the first (and only) Goodchord camp a few years ago, there was a player from England and she had her guitar tuned in all 4ths. We had interesting discussions about tunings, where on the neck to optimize one's negotiation of the cycles, the fact that some cycles are impossible and how to play them (in duo, in dyads, in single line) and I remember we even had a sax player in the camp. We scratched our heads but by the end of the camp he was creating beautiful arpeggiated manifestations of the cycles. Maybe we'll make that a topic for a future meeting. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Also, some of Mr GoodChord voice leading is much easier to fret in a different tuning.
I know this might be a non-jazz approach, but it works.
A full set is on Reverb for £463 + shipping, eeek.
As far as the sale of those books. Yeah cool! Get it while you can because pretty soon I'm going to be putting these all on a website where you can access this all for free. Find the cycle you want, print it up and work with it for a few months.
For many, this has been the ONLY pay out they've gotten from these books. Oh well, that's why this group.
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Well that sounded lush but it not sure if I understand what you mean? Originally Posted by Liarspoker
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Oh, it wasn't a reply to your post. It's just something that I'm working on atm. The more I play it the more it seems to evolve. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
There's a funny time signature, perhaps 9/8 but not phrased that way. Also the form is 5 bars each for both sections so experimenting a little with form as well.
It's good fun and keeps me busy anyway.
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