The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1026

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    It can be hard to find motivation sometimes though.
    I don't find that at all. I only wish that I could practise/play more.

    Last summer we were in the middle of nowhere and two of my boys were casting lures for fish. I took shelter from the wind by sitting down behind a large stone wall upon warm rock. At that moment a feeling of happiness took over my body totally. Upon reflection I only get this sometimes when playing music (usually writing stuff).

    I think because I have time constraints it also makes me want to practice more. I wonder how much I'd practice and write if I had every day free? I'd probably waste a lot of time.

    Anyhow back to having a look at the three part 4th cycles

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  3. #1027

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    Yeah I have had some opportunities to practice for long periods recently and honestly I just get a bit lost

    You have to be inspired to want to work on stuff

    plus most of my style of practicing isn’t really based on long blocks of time. I don’t think you can effectively practice like that actually. Maybe write, transcribe, arrange, read through charts etc

  4. #1028

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    At that moment a feeling of happiness took over my body totally. Upon reflection I only get this sometimes when playing music (usually writing stuff).

    I think because I have time constraints it also makes me want to practice more. I wonder how much I'd practice and write if I had every day free?
    You know, it's a matter of attitude. A relaxed, and receptive frame of mind is also something that needs to be practiced too. Music can be seen as practice for living a more balanced life, and living a more balanced life can be practice for playing better. Seeing "practice" as a strict goal oriented task can be counter musical, as thinking of chops only can be counter-musical.
    In a recent discussion with Bill Frisell, he expressed the sentiment that music is larger than playing guitar, but rather a way of finding the balance we all need for living better.
    A couple of days ago Mick told me "The secret of living a good life is in finding small sources of happiness", that he had wasted a lot of precious time trying to be totally happy, and once he changed his attitude to being satisfied with small amounts of happiness, he lived and played more fully.

    If you use your time practicing living, your music will reflect your life more fully.
    Anyway, we do what works.

  5. #1029

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    Kenji plays some cycles so you can hear some Almanac off the page

    Take any of these cycles and arpeggiate them (turn them from one attack per chord to 4 attacks) and you'll begin to see how very fast intricate melodic harmonies can be played with flow and not a lot of forethought nor planning involved in line craft; great for melodic passages between and connecting phrases.
    Take your linear interpretations and work out picking patterns that are not linear but mix it up (BATS, TASB etc vs. BTAS) and you'll get a huge amount of contrast vocabulary (you'll also begin to see hints of Julian-isms).
    Take the cycles in linear form and use non regular rhythmic phrasing (triplets, rests, syncopation, crossing bar lines with chords that DON'T coincide with strict beats...) and you're learning to find statement through rhythmic phrasing that very elegantly describes the harmonic tonality of the passage. NOW we're starting to unlock the potential musicality in the cycles. And once you begin working with non diatonic scales (HM, MM) you'll get surprises.
    At that point, you can apply your own shaping forces to the basic chordal cycles and don't forget, nobody's saying you can't work with chromatics and ornaments...these ARE part of the deeper reaches of the jazz traditions. Once your ear is calling the shots, the cycles disappear and the music emerges.

    They may be inherently pretty but as an advancing guitarist, it's a tool that will allow you to own a broader and even more diverse line craft to your playing.
    Just sayin'
    Last edited by Jimmy blue note; 09-16-2022 at 02:38 PM.

  6. #1030

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    Do you all actually practise the cycles?

    I practise them till I know them and then start adding a few extra notes. I went busking today and did a fairly long intro with some nice extra notes. I tried to replicate it this evening but can't remember it but it was something like this but with more melody notes.

    Aren't some of the chords lovely



    Edit: listening back this version is a bit crappy I'll probably delete it soon but will leave it up for a few days.

    Do any of you guys care to share a video of what you are doing with the cycles?

  7. #1031

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    I like David's idea of writing etudes for the cycles.

    It could be a helpful project for this group to write an etude on whatever cycles we're working with and then post a video of us playing the cycles on the first of each month. It would help us apply what we are learning as opposed to making a theoretical exercise out of it or to write fancy stuff that we can't really play.

    Anyhow I was up a bit earlier this morning and wrote this little piece based on the 3 part 4ths from the post above.

    I added a beat and a bit of syncopation. As always feel free to post your videos


  8. #1032

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    Using Your Ears To Voice Lead
    This is another way to use these cycles. You might want to have some footing working with the cycles and ear training under your belt as we get into ear guided use of almanac material.
    Once you're confident with chord family inversions and they're under your fingers, you start to hear the different voices within each chord. Of course the root is easiest, and the fifth is often identifiable as a strong voice. But each individual voice has its own distinct identity. The sooner you start to hear distinct intervallic identities, the sooner you start to be able to improvise lines; know what they are and where they can go. In voice leading, especially improvising, a strong ear is not only your best friend, but I'd say it's essential.
    So as you immerse yourself in a chord family, be aware of where your root is, where your third is, where your fifth is and which voice is your 7th. Then experiment: Replace your third with a fourth, be aware of where your 4th degree of the scale is, what it sounds like. Do the same with the sixth degree of the scale where the fifth is... etc. This ability to hear the individual voices comes with time but don't shy away from this awareness.
    This is yet another and deeper aspect of the Almanacs, the immersion into the world and control of melody within harmony, and that's a sound thing. I will note that in my experience, many proficient players can learn to play very well through grabs, internalized chord progressions and using chord shapes alone to create comping lines. While that certainly takes one far, it is also the wall when getting into FUNCTIONAL VOICE LEADING.

    Functional voice leading is simply identifying a voice within a given chord of a cycle and being aware of its relationship to the next chord in a cycle.
    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-screen-shot-2022-09-17-1-04-26-am-png
    Here's a partial run through a cycle 3 C Major harmonized cycle. I chose drop 3 this time, a very handy family to know. Drop 3 is another guitaristic family that's important to know.
    Take a look at this and play it through. You may notice something cool. The root of your chord drops down a scale step and becomes the 7th of the next chord. Always.
    But another really cool AND USEFUL thing is the 3rd of your chord...that's the root of your next chord in cycle 3. So now you know the way into the next chord is guided by your ear into the next chord, and your ear is what you need to tell you the quality of that chord. See how useful this ear training is?
    You'll find this on the side of the page:
    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-screen-shot-2022-09-17-1-04-53-am-png
    This indicates that your root will go up the scale to become the seventh of the next chord. But more importantly, that third of the chord becomes the root of the following chord. That's a really important thing because if you know, hear or figure out the quality of the next cycle 3 chord, you just play it with the root in that voice. As you become proficient in the use of cycles, you'll hear/sense that next chord and you'll make these progressions by ear by second nature.
    This "ear sense" comes when you use the cycles as ear training etudes if you make the transition from fingering exercises to sound studies.
    I found that focusing on the voice that becomes the root of the next chord is a very powerful 'door' into the next chord.

    Adding tension to the diatonic cycles.
    Eventually, you may ask yourself, "How do I begin to get those really outside sounds Ben or Bach gets?". You can alter a voice of a scale and change the modal identity with merely changing a single note (or more eventually) to get a totally different sound.
    For example, most of us know that the difference between a diatonic scale and a melodic minor is one note, right? Major 3rd or minor 3rd. But knowing the harmonic potential takes time, and hearing the potential takes time and conscious training of your ear. Immersion in the melodic minor cycle 3 can be a terrific ear training etude in chromatic harmony. It can be a stepping stone into the world of chromatic harmony (chords from mm) but also chromatic melody (MSRP from a mm cycle).

    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-screen-shot-2022-09-17-1-07-11-am-png
    Here's cycle 3, drop 3 in melodic minor.
    And look! The functional voice leading is the same, root steps up to become seventh, third becomes the new root. But playing and knowing this cycle based on the melodic minor gives you not only lydian dominant harmony, but altered harmony imbedded in a voice led cycle with very little movement.

    I'll leave it here for you to ponder because the implications in this are hugely far reaching and a part of your ear's ability to guide you to discovery.

    Have fun!

  9. #1033

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    I like David's idea of writing etudes for the cycles.

    It could be a helpful project for this group to write an etude on whatever cycles we're working with and then post a video of us playing the cycles on the first of each month. It would help us apply what we are learning as opposed to making a theoretical exercise out of it or to write fancy stuff that we can't really play.

    Anyhow I was up a bit earlier this morning and wrote this little piece based on the 3 part 4ths from the post above.

    I added a beat and a bit of syncopation. As always feel free to post your videos

    NOW we're talking! I can see this sound imbedded within a line that goes from a II to a tonic, or even when used within the rhythmic feel of a solo, adding a feeling of movement in fresh and new ways.
    Thanks for posting that!

  10. #1034

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    Interesting stuff Jimmy. A lot to parse and think about, and I will reread but I’m pleased that I kind of felt that cycle 3/6 feels like a good basis and it’s nice to be somewhat confirmed on that. The movement in these specific cycles is quite simple as it’s one voice at a time. The functional relationships between these chords are very close, they move relatively little compared to the other 2/4 cycles.

    i will post something when I feel fluent in what I’m doing. May be a while lol

  11. #1035

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    I really like these in drop 2/4 (ie C G E B) too.

  12. #1036

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    Of note too, the faster you play these, the more they become something else entirely, the textural (tension perceived) feelings are revealed. In short, the less you can figure out, the more sensually you can hear the notes. In this way, proficiency and fluid speed are magical transformers. The less thinking the audience feels, the stronger the impact of the line.

  13. #1037

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Interesting stuff Jimmy. A lot to parse and think about, and I will reread but I’m pleased that I kind of felt that cycle 3/6 feels like a good basis and it’s nice to be somewhat confirmed on that. The movement in these specific cycles is quite simple as it’s one voice at a time. The functional relationships between these chords are very close, they move relatively little compared to the other 2/4 cycles.

    i will post something when I feel fluent in what I’m doing. May be a while lol
    They also sound less functional and more like playing with tensions; creating inner movement in mysterious subtle ways.

  14. #1038

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    They also sound less functional and more like playing with tensions; creating inner movement in mysterious subtle ways.
    This is totally my bag going forward privately. I started with Caspian Dream which features lots of chromaticism and tensions and have been writing a bit of tension stuff (which is much better than the video above) but keeping that under wraps until it's finished.

    It makes a nice change from, say, Partimento where there is also plenty of tension via suspension chains etc but it's only tension for little kids really. The Almanac's supplies tension for men.

    Actually it's funny that I mention all that as when I play out I play a piece that I wrote called Mortensen's Prelude twice ( it's on my YT channel but I've improved it since). It's based on Mortensen's Baroque improv book which is where I heard about Partimenti first.

    That seques into Caspian Dream. The two actually go really well together.

    Here is the basic version of what is now called Mortensen's Prelude



    And here is my first take of Caspian Dream just getting the idea down

    https://youtube.com/shorts/bhRLrHUa5u8?feature=share

  15. #1039

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    This is totally my bag going forward privately. I started with Caspian Dream which features lots of chromaticism and tensions and have been writing a bit of tension stuff (which is much better than the video above) but keeping that under wraps until it's finished.

    It makes a nice change from, say, Partimento where there is also plenty of tension via suspension chains etc but it's only tension for little kids really. The Almanac's supplies tension for men.

    Actually it's funny that I mention all that as when I play out I play a piece that I wrote called Mortensen's Prelude twice ( it's on my YT channel but I've improved it since). It's based on Mortensen's Baroque improv book which is where I heard about Partimenti first.

    That seques into Caspian Dream. The two actually go really well together.

    Here is the basic version of what is now called Mortensen's Prelude



    And here is my first take of Caspian Dream just getting the idea down

    https://youtube.com/shorts/bhRLrHUa5u8?feature=share
    Nice! Did you see this btw (sorry sort of topic but not totally)

    Killer playing as always by Michael.



    Interesting stuff about managing dissonances in 4 voices.

    Note, Prelude, like Jazz is a verb, not just a noun. And verbs is where we are at as improvisers ?

    Anyway to take it back to the thread topic, it seems to me that the VLA cycles lead themselves well to preluding - some in a baroque style, some more modern (I find cycle 4 in ascending triads very Handelian). But I'd want to be able to disperse the texture a bit more as he does in the video. So connecting voicing types within cycles as well as staying within the same voicing type and string group in cycle. Anyway, one step at a time.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-18-2022 at 07:32 AM.

  16. #1040

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Nice! Did you see this btw (sorry sort of topic but not totally)

    Killer playing as always by Michael.



    Interesting stuff about managing dissonances in 4 voices.

    Note, Prelude, like Jazz is a verb, not just a noun. And verbs is where we are at as improvisers ?

    Anyway to take it back to the thread topic, it seems to me that the VLA cycles lead themselves well to preluding - some in a baroque style, some more modern. But I'd want to be able to disperse the texture a bit more as he does in the video. So connecting voicing types within cycles as well as staying within the same voicing type and string group in cycle.
    Beautiful example of the overlap between the classical applications of harmonic progressions and the emerging application of these concepts into the realtime compositional realm we call improvisation.
    Scaffolding > Figuration is essentially the way we see 'harmony' and 'lines'.
    To me, this really brings home the duality that exists between composer and performer. In the classical tradition (as it's evolved away from cadenza performance), this cadential, and harmonic progressive content is firmly put in the composer's lap, with all the editorial and architectural luxury that is afforded a composer working out of real time. In the jazz tradition, all harmonic progressions are in the hands of the performer.
    This brings home a very essential point of departure the Almanacs offer to the player: The ability to acquire these more formal cadential and movement devices in a codified, assimilated and practiced 'bag' accessible in real time.

    Really thought provoking springboard about the potential and practical merits of separately composed western classical tradition and the traditional and evolving scope of the modern improvisational (jazz) lexicon and syntax.
    I'll also note that there is clarity in the pianistic approach as demonstrated in this video. I cannot overstate the power of having access to a musical keyboard when working with counterpoint, voice leading, cycles and harmony. I attribute much of the wide gap between pianistic harmony and "guitar chord harmony" to the opacity of 'seeing' what you play on the folded linearity of the guitar. That's why the almanacs and the necessity to train the ear to transcend the idiosyncracies of guitar playing is maybe the most useful and hidden virtue of these volumes. They force the guitarist to leave the shelter of convenience and allow a player to unlock what the ear can imagine.
    Cool video. Thanks for posting. I'm definitely going to re-watch it many times.

  17. #1041

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    Beautiful example of the overlap between the classical applications of harmonic progressions and the emerging application of these concepts into the realtime compositional realm we call improvisation.
    Scaffolding > Figuration is essentially the way we see 'harmony' and 'lines'.
    To me, this really brings home the duality that exists between composer and performer. In the classical tradition (as it's evolved away from cadenza performance), this cadential, and harmonic progressive content is firmly put in the composer's lap, with all the editorial and architectural luxury that is afforded a composer working out of real time. In the jazz tradition, all harmonic progressions are in the hands of the performer.
    Just want to clarify where Michael is coming from here in case it’s not clear - he is improvising this stuff. He’s walking us through how he does it, via various modules that are not unlike and sometimes identical to the seed progressions we might find in jazz - ii V I’s, cycle 4’s and so on.

    Conversely, the compositions of the c18 are much more akin to improvisations than we might suppose from a conventional music education. As Robert Gjerdingen points out ‘we’d be hard pressed to copy music as fast as the professional composers of the 18th century wrote it’ - there simply wasn’t time for the working composer to revise works at their leisure. These were not cloistered artists in ivory towers, they were overworked artisans. A better comparison would be the Hollywood film composer.

    The work of Michael and others such as Gjerdingen and John Mortensen is to remove classical music (ie classical, baroque and even romantic music) from that largely 20th century composer/performer duality. It’s worth watching these videos if you are interested in learning more. Mortensen has written two books, the first is a how-to guide on historical (classical) improv and I think Liarspoker is working through it atm
    I

    Anyway Mortensen starts his first book with preludes. the prelude is an example of a form that for the improviser is quite open ended. You are not limited by the through composed nature of partimenti or the cyclical nature of things like ground basses or the chord progressions of jazz standards and can basically make it up as you go, introducing modulation, pedal points and so on as you wish.

    Outside of free improv, in my experience this type of extended formal freedom isn’t actually common in jazz outside of intros and things although I’d be interested to hear of examples… I suppose you have the “time, no changes” thing, which I always enjoyed as a player but I’d be interested in other ways composers may have facilitated less cyclic improvisations.

    Anyway apologies for what the kids call an ‘ADHD stunlock’ - you should have seen the tract I edited this down from lol

    This brings home a very essential point of departure the Almanacs offer to the player: The ability to acquire these more formal cadential and movement devices in a codified, assimilated and practiced 'bag' accessible in real time.

    Really thought provoking springboard about the potential and practical merits of separately composed western classical tradition and the traditional and evolving scope of the modern improvisational (jazz) lexicon and syntax.
    I'll also note that there is clarity in the pianistic approach as demonstrated in this video. I cannot overstate the power of having access to a musical keyboard when working with counterpoint, voice leading, cycles and harmony. I attribute much of the wide gap between pianistic harmony and "guitar chord harmony" to the opacity of 'seeing' what you play on the folded linearity of the guitar. That's why the almanacs and the necessity to train the ear to transcend the idiosyncracies of guitar playing is maybe the most useful and hidden virtue of these volumes. They force the guitarist to leave the shelter of convenience and allow a player to unlock what the ear can imagine.
    It’s all a hell of a lot easier on piano, that’s for sure! I can even realise partimenti at the piano and I’m not pianist at all lol.

    Btw I’d be remiss not to mention the forum’s own Rob MacKillop who is an expert historical improviser but iirc has said that prefers to work from the fretboard of the lute and lute treatises rather than emulating keyboard practice. Rob had a couple of videos on preluding.

    A good historical example here is the (Iirc self taught) Kapsberger, whose exploration of the lutes resources, including open strings produced a very unique harmonic language that can sound surprisingly modern today


    I could imagine Ben Monder being a fan

    For jazz guitarists emulating keyboard practice seems to be very common, but I’m also aware it’s possible to miss a lot of resources that are unique to our instrument

    Cool video. Thanks for posting. I'm definitely going to re-watch it many times.
    Michael’s channel is amazing. Do check out his other videos too!
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-19-2022 at 07:15 AM.

  18. #1042

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Outside of free improv, in my experience this type of extended formal freedom isn’t actually common in jazz outside of intros and things although I’d be interested to hear of examples… I suppose you have the “time, no changes” thing, which I always enjoyed as a player but I’d be interested in other ways composers may have facilitated less cyclic improvisations.
    Maybe not the place in this thread for the extended discussion on historical origins of mainstream recognized movements, but there was a time when there was great diversity in new frontiers of creative music (to quote Ellington's alternative to 'jazz' moniker) were embraced. Bebop had become a stronghold of form and codified performance, embraced as a commercial category and with that fell within the scrutiny and judgements of the community. Miles Davis was one important proponent of a new paradigm. His performances with the new young generation at the time did dip deeply into the 'free' range as set conventions like time, meter, harmonic form, song form were dissolved at the edges, making way for long conversational improvisations. Still in its formative stages, Herbie Hancock did and could have continued that avenue. Keith Jarret brought the lexicon and syntax of counterpoint and voice playing into his many ensembles (The European quartet with Palle Danielson, Dewey Redman, started down that road) and solo performances.
    Dewey, Charlie Haden and Paul Motian had a quartet with Mick Goodrick. Although Dewey took the forms out when he soloed, Mick embraced the open space provided to create chordal and almost fugue-like improvisations that embraced the harmonic complexity of classical music.
    One of the things that has presented a more robust branch of the jazz tree has been a paucity of approaches in the face of the accepted chords/scales linear approach.
    Now with players like Ben and Julian, there's a broader acceptance in the audiences for more harmonically sophisticated solos in this direction. The tools are emerging. It's up to the new generation of players to find the personal investment to realize this 'new fusion' of pre-debussy western harmony and modern improvisation.
    Who will the defenders of the accepted traditions be? Who will the advancing guitarists be?
    We see it here in this community. Time will tell.

  19. #1043

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    Maybe not the place in this thread for the extended discussion on historical origins of mainstream recognized movements, but there was a time when there was great diversity in new frontiers of creative music (to quote Ellington's alternative to 'jazz' moniker) were embraced. Bebop had become a stronghold of form and codified performance, embraced as a commercial category and with that fell within the scrutiny and judgements of the community. Miles Davis was one important proponent of a new paradigm. His performances with the new young generation at the time did dip deeply into the 'free' range as set conventions like time, meter, harmonic form, song form were dissolved at the edges, making way for long conversational improvisations. Still in its formative stages, Herbie Hancock did and could have continued that avenue. Keith Jarret brought the lexicon and syntax of counterpoint and voice playing into his many ensembles (The European quartet with Palle Danielson, Dewey Redman, started down that road) and solo performances.
    Dewey, Charlie Haden and Paul Motian had a quartet with Mick Goodrick. Although Dewey took the forms out when he soloed, Mick embraced the open space provided to create chordal and almost fugue-like improvisations that embraced the harmonic complexity of classical music.
    One of the things that has presented a more robust branch of the jazz tree has been a paucity of approaches in the face of the accepted chords/scales linear approach.
    Now with players like Ben and Julian, there's a broader acceptance in the audiences for more harmonically sophisticated solos in this direction. The tools are emerging. It's up to the new generation of players to find the personal investment to realize this 'new fusion' of pre-debussy western harmony and modern improvisation.
    Who will the defenders of the accepted traditions be? Who will the advancing guitarists be?
    We see it here in this community. Time will tell.
    Yes the time no changes thing. it’s more like time and emergent changes and form.

    I like the continuation of groove but the loosening of form where the aim is not so much to create something that sounds ‘out’ - in fact it may sound very consonant and conventional in some ways - but to open the music out. I think this may have been some of Ornette’s aim but Ornette’s music great though it is not the sort of thing I have in mind. Neither do I mean the extended modal thing ….

    That quartet with Mick and Redman et al sounds like the sort of thing, I’ll have to check it out. I very much enjoyed in Pas(s)ing so keen to listen to more Mick.

    i understand the jazz police will be after me for this but i don’t actually know much Jarrett tbh. Bit of a ridiculous hole in my listening (I never really got into the Koln concert and haven’t really got round to listening to the other stuff.) I thought he would be the sort of person though.

    And to revisit the Second Quintet is way overdue. For that matter late Wayne - Footprints live springs to mind. I find that music very compelling and not really ‘avant garde.’

    There’s often a bit of a black box situation with this music; how is this stuff organised if at all? Last time I listened intensively to Footprints live about fifteen years ago, I didn’t have a clue. I saw the band live and thought it was amazing, but I didn’t understand it the way I would have a more conventional jazz group. It’s was more like listening to a symphony without prior knowledge of symphonic form.

    Anyway….I’ll get back to the topic I promise!
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-19-2022 at 01:36 PM.

  20. #1044

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    Thanks for the recommendation: I am just listening to Redman, Haden, Goodrick and Motion live at Tampere, 1986.

    Along with "In passing" one of my favorite recordings at the moment by Master Mick Goodrick

  21. #1045

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Mortensen has written two books, the first is a how-to guide on historical (classical) improv and I think Liarspoker is working through it atm
    I was for sure over the holidays. I'm a bit pressed for time these days since I'm back to pre Covid busyness ( which is both a good and bad thing I suppose).

    However after playing guitar for a long time I feel like that I am standing at the edge of a cliff in the jungle.
    I've tried to go into the jungle a few times but have always turned back after the first step or so.
    In the distance, a mountain that holds untold treasure.
    The path to the mountain is not clear, lots of exploring to do, lots of time to put in etc.
    The danger of not taking the shortest path is a given but you'll see sights, and hear sounds that you'll have missed otherwise.
    As I have taken my first few steps and my white shoes are getting a little dirty I wonder if it's a nice path to follow if I mix the Almanacs with Baroque-isms?
    At the moment it seems so.....
    This is from this mornings short practise session trying to mix Goodrick with a descending baroque sequence. Nothing fancy. Starting in C major then modulating to the dominant for the descent.
    Step 1 has been taken



    Edit just to say that I'm still a little higher up this thread taking notes and trying to play what you are all talking about
    Oh, and I bought both of Ben's books a few days ago. Can't wait till they arrive for some heavy analysis
    Did I also mention that I bought a new guitar yesterday
    When will it end
    Vital tools for the journey

  22. #1046

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    I've been working on the 7th chord cycles in melodic minor since I began this Goodchord project, and so decided to expand a bit by starting in on the 4-part 4ths.

    Some weeks ago I had notated the 4 part 4ths in cycle 6, drawing on what specific information I don't recall, not having Volume 2 of the Almanacs.

    I knew that the 4th chords were initially conceived of as stacks of fourth intervals within a scale, e.g., CFBEb in C melodic minor. However, because a stack of four notes in fourths does not fit within an octave, it is necessary to squeeze the stack into one octave by lowering the top note to get the "4-way close" voicing - CEbFB - from which all the other "drop" voicings are derived.

    By whatever means I had at the time (probably a scanned page from Volume 2 that was posted here or elsewhere), I was able to create the sequence of close voicings in cycle 6. I then eliminated every second chord to get a sequence of I, IV, VII, III etc. - cycle 4.

    I went for cycle 4 initially because I thought the movement in 4ths might lend some familiarity to what are in other respects some fairly unusual sounding chords. It didn't turn out that way!

    The cycle 4 sequence sounded great, but the movement through the inversions of these "do-not-name-that-chord" chords was a bit bewildering. Inversion of what? The 4-part 4ths chords did not seem to "resolve" to each next 4-part 4th chord in cycle 4 in the familiar manner of triads and 7th chords. I had no immediate handle on what I was hearing, other than the fact that after 14 chords the sequence returned to square 1 like other cycle 4 sequences.

    Eventually it occurred to me to construct the close-voiced 4-part 4th chords in the usual ascending sequence of parallel voicings - the version of cycle 2 that the Good professor chose to exclude from the Almanacs - by starting with CEbFB and moving each voice up the C melodic minor scale in steps. Just to see what I could learn about the underlying structure of the 4-part 4th chords.

    Then the obvious revealed itself: Each 4-part 4th chord can be derived from a 7th chord counterpart simply by lowering the 5th of the 7th chord by one step in the relevant scale. So in my example, the unnamed starting chord CEbFB can be derived by the corresponding 7th chord (C minor major 7 - CEbGB) by lowering the G to F.

    Thus every 4-part 4th chord in any inversion within any cycle is only one note removed from a 7th chord counterpart. The unfamiliar is that close to the familiar!

    I believe this simplicity was at first opaque to me largely because of my orientation to classical and jazz theory where the 4th in a chord is often regarded as a suspension that substitutes for the 3rd of the chord. In 4-part 4ths the 4th of a chord co-exists with the 3rd of the chord, and is not a suspension.

    Also, the 4th in the 4-part 4th chord is not a "lowered 5th" despite the relationship found between each 4-part 4th chord and a corresponding 7th chord. However, I think it may be very helpful to practice moving between the 7th and 4-part 4th chords with the one-note voice movement. The unfamiliar may be illuminated by its proximity to the familiar.

    I intend to practice some of the cycles using corresponding 7th and 4-part 4th voicings in pairs. For example, a cycle 2 in 7th chords could be embellished by inserting after each 7th chord the corresponding 4-part 4th chord, just by lowering the 5th of the 7th chord down a step before moving fully to the next 7th chord. I think that working with this relationship between 7th chords and 4-part 4ths will pave the way for me to better hear the 4-part 4th chords as stand-alone voicings.

  23. #1047

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    I’ve found the fourth cycles a lot more immediately useful than the tertial examples. They are really nice sounding.

  24. #1048

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    I like cycle 6 too. Nice movement from chord to chord.

    It's a nice coincidence that you started 4 part 4ths this last night J.Lee as I actually started on them this morning. That first chord in cycle 2, C major is just lovely and am trying to write something with that. It sounds great going to Am11.

    Anyhow before this I have been concentrating on 3 part 4ths and I found a nice example of practical use on the Decoding Monder website.

    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-img_20221002_141213-jpg

    He's just moving down the scale over a chord which we all know how that works.
    Similarly it's akin to many baroque compositions which have their harmony supported by intervals of 3rds and 6ths.
    So when playing cycles we could anchor our cycle chords on beats 1 and 3 for example then add in other diatonic ( or not) triads and chords etc in between. The cycle is therefore a bit hidden but is still the framework of the composition.

  25. #1049

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    There’s a bunch of analogous procedures you could use for non traditional harmony modelled on trad counterpoint/harmony moves.

    an obvious one for 4ths such as staggered parallel motion (tbf all the VLA stuff is staggered parallel motion) creating non tertial ‘suspension chains’

    In the same way as cycle 4 is emergent from parallel 6 3 movement (fauxbourdon) you can do the same stuff with just another any intervallic cluster you can think of.

    This sounds incredibly wanky to talk about, but actually the principle is really simple. Have parallel chords like the one in the website screen shot, but let some voices get left behind and catch up. See also Barry’s borrowed note things. Same procedure, different scale (BH scales are also symmetrical while 7 note modes are not, but that’s another ADHD tangent lol)
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 10-02-2022 at 02:06 PM.

  26. #1050

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker

    ... He's just moving down the scale over a chord which we all know how that works.
    Cool. Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but beware, too, of the off-screen two flats key signature, missing in the screen grab, above. Each B is a B flat (as Tim Watson's annotation states, it's using E locrian, the 7th mode of F major, in this particular bit of the sequence) so the voicings are not quite all parallel, setting up a lovely connection to the A7b9 and some edgy TBN1 chromaticism (F/Bb, Gb/Cb).

    Tim Watson's Decoding Monder website looks worth a close read – many thanks, Liarspoker!
    Link here, for anyone else interested.