The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #401

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    Thanks guys.

    TruthHertz I've sent you a PM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #402

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    I'm liking the Diatonic fourth voicings and inversions descending by a third using the C Ionian (Major) scale.

    I've got this fav progression of the chords on my loop pedal.

    Chord 1: G C F
    Chord 2: G A D
    Chord 3: E A B
    Chord 4: C F B


    Last edited by GuyBoden; 06-22-2015 at 05:40 AM.

  4. #403

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    OK- just had another breakthrough. probably obvious to everyone else, but thought I'd share nonetheless...

    I was going through book I triads in C major and decided to memorize which are ascending and descending.

    then I saw this:

    23 descending
    67 ascending
    = perfect mirror

    4 ascending
    5 descending
    with opposite in middle- kind of yin/yang

    cool!

    then it got better:

    wait does that mean that....2 and 7 are kind of...the same....a mirror image.....woah!

    suddenly, the mathematical beauty hit me over the head (once again)

    and also made my life a little easier in the process.

  5. #404

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    Quote Originally Posted by yotsn
    OK- just had another breakthrough. probably obvious to everyone else, but thought I'd share nonetheless...

    I was going through book I triads in C major and decided to memorize which are ascending and descending.

    then I saw this:

    23 descending
    67 ascending
    = perfect mirror

    4 ascending
    5 descending
    with opposite in middle- kind of yin/yang

    cool!

    then it got better:

    wait does that mean that....2 and 7 are kind of...the same....a mirror image.....woah!

    suddenly, the mathematical beauty hit me over the head (once again)

    and also made my life a little easier in the process.
    Cool! if you're interested in Mick's Math, check out the newer chord book he and Tim Miller put together.

  6. #405

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    Quote Originally Posted by yotsn

    wait does that mean that....2 and 7 are kind of...the same....a mirror image.....woah!
    Yes, I too hear/see these

    2 and 7,
    3 and 6,
    4 and 5,

  7. #406

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    Quote Originally Posted by yotsn
    OK- just had another breakthrough. probably obvious to everyone else, but thought I'd share nonetheless...

    I was going through book I triads in C major and decided to memorize which are ascending and descending.

    then I saw this:

    23 descending
    67 ascending
    = perfect mirror

    4 ascending
    5 descending
    with opposite in middle- kind of yin/yang

    cool!

    then it got better:

    wait does that mean that....2 and 7 are kind of...the same....a mirror image.....woah!

    suddenly, the mathematical beauty hit me over the head (once again)

    and also made my life a little easier in the process.
    I remember when Mick was first putting these together, and the task seemed infinitely complex and endless. He honestly didn't know how expansive this project would be, but he was determined to see just how big the final exhaustive compilation would be. When he himself discovered the reciprocal relationships, it suddenly seemed that the knowledge built upon itself and encountering new voice leading patterns became much easier. And once you get it in your ear, most people find an almost intuitive feel for voice leading any line becomes second nature. This makes it easier to do interesting things with synthetic scales and other note groupings not native to the almanacs.

    A few years back (guitarist) Ben Monder paid a visit to Mick to share ideas about using the vast store of information in the Almanacs, among other things. I remember Ben mentioning studying this material seriously during a retreat, working with it, but being able to use it would have to wait for some time in the future. Now, a few years later, it's begun to appear in compositional and improvisational ways. So be patient, stick with it and it will change the way you use the guitar; it's a different plateau, and it's largely unexplored. The revelations you find on your own are a huge step in mastering this stuff.

    David

  8. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    I remember when Mick was first putting these together, and the task seemed infinitely complex and endless. He honestly didn't know how expansive this project would be, but he was determined to see just how big the final exhaustive compilation would be. When he himself discovered the reciprocal relationships, it suddenly seemed that the knowledge built upon itself and encountering new voice leading patterns became much easier. And once you get it in your ear, most people find an almost intuitive feel for voice leading any line becomes second nature. This makes it easier to do interesting things with synthetic scales and other note groupings not native to the almanacs.
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz

    A few years back (guitarist) Ben Monder paid a visit to Mick to share ideas about using the vast store of information in the Almanacs, among other things. I remember Ben mentioning studying this material seriously during a retreat, working with it, but being able to use it would have to wait for some time in the future. Now, a few years later, it's begun to appear in compositional and improvisational ways. So be patient, stick with it and it will change the way you use the guitar; it's a different plateau, and it's largely unexplored. The revelations you find on your own are a huge step in mastering this stuff.

    David
    What this guy starts getting into around 32:00 made me think of the recent conversation in this thread:

    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 07-14-2015 at 06:49 PM.

  9. #408

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    The Geometry of music book that Dmitri Tymoczco wrote seems interesting but I haven't purchased it yet. There's another interesting book called "The Geometry of Musical Rhythm" which I would probably buy before Dimitri's book. The rhythm book goes into the theory of Euclidean rhythms which are a popular class of rhythms used in folkloric music from around the world (e.g. clave, flamenco rhythms, tresillo, etc.) The author of the rhythm book derived a flamenco family tree using his genetic algorithms (analyzing flamenco rhythms ). His paper had some notoriety in Spain.

    I have a lot of fun with the eurorack Stoicheia module which uses euclidean rhythm algorithms:
    ???????? | Rebel Technology

    I have a couple Ben Monder classes from my musicmasterclass. He goes over some of his almanac type ideas. In an interview he stated he learned some of these ideas (and voicings) from one of his teachers (before the almanacs came out). But obviously Goodrick is the man!

    ...I just checked that page again...looks like Monder has a 3rd video out now!
    http://www.mymusicmasterclass.com/pr...itar-lesson-3/


    I recently got the Tom Lippincott harmonic major lesson on mkes masterclass...he has some of those cycle ideas applied to harmonic major. On Tom's homepage he mentions Goodrick's influence on him.

    A few years ago I wrote a perl script that could print out any of the almanac pages (minus the graphics or MSRP). I found a few minor typos in either Vol 1 or Vol 2.

    One interesting thing I came across is nomenclature : specifically how to name drop voicings vs. inversion terminology. e.g. drop voicings are created from the top down, but some people name inversions based on the bass note.

    I don't have volume 3. maybe one day. I don't check for it that often.
    Last edited by jazz4ever; 07-14-2015 at 07:05 PM.

  10. #409

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    And now for something completely different: For some sounds you may have never found on your guitar, and the challenge to create new situations to work them into:

    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-screen-shot-2015-07-16-10-15-24-am-png


    This is a selection out of the final frontier volume 3. Have fun.
    David

  11. #410

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    What's the latest on the possibility of new books?

  12. #411

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnoL
    What's the latest on the possibility of new books?
    Which volumes or subjects were you interested in?
    David

  13. #412

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    Earlier in the thread you had mentioned that new (cycle) books might be broken into smaller categories, like the major scale and melodic minor. I might be interested in all of them over a period of time. I didn't know if that was going to be your project or Micks's or a collaboration.

  14. #413

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnoL
    Earlier in the thread you had mentioned that new (cycle) books might be broken into smaller categories, like the major scale and melodic minor. I might be interested in all of them over a period of time. I didn't know if that was going to be your project or Micks's or a collaboration.
    PM me with your Email address, preferably if you have a Gmail account. I have study sheets based on those reductions. This goes for any forum members who have a serious desire to work with this material. I've provided some samples of these volumes in posts here so you can get an honest idea of whether this is a musical direction you want to explore.

    They provide compositional possibilities, improvisational possibilities, ear training possibilities, chord grouping possibilities and much more.

    This is all Mick's work, and it was his intention that it should be available to everyone, but as mentioned before, there are republication and distribution obstacles. I'm providing study reductions so students can have access to templates that will facilitate exploration and expansion; for all of us.
    David

  15. #414

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    PM me with your Email address, preferably if you have a Gmail account. I have study sheets based on those reductions. This goes for any forum members who have a serious desire to work with this material. I've provided some samples of these volumes in posts here so you can get an honest idea of whether this is a musical direction you want to explore.

    They provide compositional possibilities, improvisational possibilities, ear training possibilities, chord grouping possibilities and much more.

    This is all Mick's work, and it was his intention that it should be available to everyone, but as mentioned before, there are republication and distribution obstacles. I'm providing study reductions so students can have access to templates that will facilitate exploration and expansion; for all of us.
    David
    David,

    Are you providing any material that is not available in the 3 volumes?

  16. #415

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    Quote Originally Posted by driskel
    David,

    Are you providing any material that is not available in the 3 volumes?
    As far as the voice leading, no. That is complete. There is every possible combination of 3 and 4 voice chord in cycle progression in those three volumes.
    There are mathematical voice leading possibilities, and then you can double voices, spread them out beyond the octave for even more possibilities, but as far as close and spread voicings, the 3 (8) volumes of voice leading almanacs are in a state of exhaustive completion as they are.

    The split triads that have been published in the collaboration with Tim Miller, however, are another story. Hal Leonard (Berklee Press) puts a ceiling on pages allowed in their publications, their thinking that too many pages will intimidate or bore a reader from buying a book, so there are actually about 30 pages that didn't get into that book. The form of that release remains to be decided by Mick and Tim. Maybe it's available to their students but it's not available until there's a mutual agreement. I guess I should ask them.

    I might do a private printing run in limited quantity of the rhythm material. I'll do that if that option seems to give Mick a bigger percentage of the sales, rather than an online publisher. I'll have to check that out.

    I'd love to do something to get the Factorial Rhythms available, but that too is tied up in Goodchord rights that will not be released. That's something Mick cannot control at this point so that's not an easy solution.

    Falling Grace Project is close to completion. I'll ask him.
    I'll get Repeat After Me out there first.

    David

  17. #416

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    As far as the voice leading, no. That is complete. There is every possible combination of 3 and 4 voice chord in cycle progression in those three volumes.
    There are mathematical voice leading possibilities, and then you can double voices, spread them out beyond the octave for even more possibilities, but as far as close and spread voicings, the 3 (8) volumes of voice leading almanacs are in a state of exhaustive completion as they are.

    The split triads that have been published in the collaboration with Tim Miller, however, are another story. Hal Leonard (Berklee Press) puts a ceiling on pages allowed in their publications, their thinking that too many pages will intimidate or bore a reader from buying a book, so there are actually about 30 pages that didn't get into that book. The form of that release remains to be decided by Mick and Tim. Maybe it's available to their students but it's not available until there's a mutual agreement. I guess I should ask them.

    I might do a private printing run in limited quantity of the rhythm material. I'll do that if that option seems to give Mick a bigger percentage of the sales, rather than an online publisher. I'll have to check that out.

    I'd love to do something to get the Factorial Rhythms available, but that too is tied up in Goodchord rights that will not be released. That's something Mick cannot control at this point so that's not an easy solution.

    Falling Grace Project is close to completion. I'll ask him.
    I'll get Repeat After Me out there first.

    David
    David,

    Thanks for the reply. I have managed over the last 2 years to find all of the Almanacs and Factorial Rhythm for very good prices, nothing more than the original released price or less.

  18. #417

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    Quote Originally Posted by driskel
    David,

    Thanks for the reply. I have managed over the last 2 years to find all of the Almanacs and Factorial Rhythm for very good prices, nothing more than the original released price or less.
    As it should be.
    David

  19. #418

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    If anyone is excited about the material and bummed about availability, I would just like to point out that the volumes are large, but the concepts simple to get the main idea and you can do some of the work yourself, like jazz4ever said he could even make a Perl script that could print out any page of the book. So if you are really interested in the material, with a little work you can still have access to the material.

    I'm not the first to point this out, but the thread is getting long, and I want to encourage new readers. It took me a while, but I feel like I now know what info is in all three volumes and how to proceed with my work on them.

    If you are interested, take Truthhertz up on his offer for study sheets, or PM me and I can help.

  20. #419

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    Anyone have MSRP insight?

    It's fascinating how you can boil down all the parts into a canon of MSRP.

    REALLY COOL.

    Wondering where it goes in the practical side of things. Mick doesn't really talk about uses for it. I'm wondering how people use it in their playing?

    It also encourages me to practice the exercises in groups of three (or however many the msrp is). Wondering if that is helpful for anything? I've been trying to really internalize them, singing them while playing, trying to really hear the MSRP as an integral part of the movement. But I admit, I'm at a bit of a stumbling block, wondering where it can go beyond beautiful math?

    I'm open to hearing ANY thoughts on this.

    As big as the world and internet is, this forum is the only place this stuff is being discussed!

  21. #420

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    Quote Originally Posted by yotsn
    If anyone is excited about the material and bummed about availability, I would just like to point out that the volumes are large, but the concepts simple to get the main idea and you can do some of the work yourself, like jazz4ever said he could even make a Perl script that could print out any page of the book. So if you are really interested in the material, with a little work you can still have access to the material.

    I'm not the first to point this out, but the thread is getting long, and I want to encourage new readers. It took me a while, but I feel like I now know what info is in all three volumes and how to proceed with my work on them.

    If you are interested, take Truthhertz up on his offer for study sheets, or PM me and I can help.

    Great point yotsn and I agree. I worked through a lot of this material over vacations. I would write out the cycles with different voicings. I found it greatly therapeutic and solidified the understanding of the material.

  22. #421

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    Quote Originally Posted by driskel
    Great point yotsn and I agree. I worked through a lot of this material over vacations. I would write out the cycles with different voicings. I found it greatly therapeutic and solidified the understanding of the material.
    I encountered this material when Mick was still working it out. I was going out to the deserts of Nevada for the summer and I took a notebook with the voice leading instructions for movement of each voice. I don't even remember if he'd even named the MSRP at that point but I remember sitting in the shade and working out cycles with amazement when inversions, voicings I'd played but never heard like that, and a return to the beginning...and beginning on different chords and seeing the modes appear...and combining chord families (like drop 2 and drop 3 and listening to the canons deconstruct. There is definitely something to be said for doing it by hand one note at a time. It's like musical spirographs, and it's beautiful. That being said, there is also something to be said for having a complete print out once you've done a few by hand.

    Recently in my Westland music group meeting, we looked at this material, and one thing you can try: get 4 people to play one voice a piece and listen to the lines blend into chords with a sense of subtle movement. It's a good exercise in learning to hear in voice led movements and progressions.

    The question of how this material is used was explored too. It was discussed here on this thread but one thing is to take an area of tonal chords, not turnarounds but chords within a key, and in the solo space, instead of playing a given set of chords, use a voice led progression, arpeggiated or chordal, and it creates beautiful tapestries of sound that can then use a moving soprano voice on the top to create a melodic line.
    Pieces like ATTYA already have a cycle 4 movement to them, so other cycles can be used too.

    Most importantly, these things must be integrated into your EAR. Not in your fingers. Only through aural assimilation will these chord combinations begin to suggest places within traditional harmonic progressions where you can, instead, use a sound that comes to you naturally through your ear. It's a way of hearing.
    If you cannot hear, train your ear. If you cannot imagine, train your mind. Take the time and let the familiarization process take its course.

    Not everyone is cut out to play imaginatively. Try composing. Create small melodies. Come to terms with your creative vocabulary and then expand it. That's the kind of player this material is suited for.

    David

  23. #422

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    Great post.

  24. #423

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    book 2

    3 part 4ths- close to spread (alternate) p.22

    msrp 2) GABCDEF


    I can't figure out what this msrp 2 refers to, can anyone help?

    msrp 1 makes sense, but there's this second one that I don't get.


    EDIT: ok- SOLVED. I see that it's the middle line, that's the first time I've noticed Mick showing another part's msrp other than the root.

    EDIT 2: turns out he does this all the time, I've just never noticed until now.

    There's not a lot of letters or numbers on these pages, but there's sure a lot of information!
    Last edited by yotsn; 08-09-2015 at 09:58 AM.

  25. #424

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    What this guy starts getting into around 32:00 made me think of the recent conversation in this thread:

    Wow, that's exactly the principle I came up while working with my spreadsheet formulas...
    (A little uplift to self-esteem doesn't hurt, sometimes...)
    Last edited by e_del; 08-10-2015 at 04:58 PM.

  26. #425

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    One interesting thing I came across but not sure it was mentioned...
    as far as number of drop voicings in this class (no doubled notes, no octave insertion).
    The formula is (n-1)!
    So for 4 voices you get 3*2*1 or 6 voicings.
    e.g. drop-2, drop-3, drop-2&4...

    6 voicings with 4 "inversions" each.
    Gives you 4!
    And that's the total unique permutations of 4 numbers.

    For 5 voices you'd have 4*3*2*1 or 24 voicings
    Each with 5 "inversions"
    Gives you 5!
    That's 120 total unique permutations of 5 numbers.

    Then with a 5 voice method...you could do something similar to Vol 3 where you remove some of the voices.

    When you go down to triads...theres another issue not covered with (n-1)! so you get alternate spread voicings.