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  1. #801

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    Hey Group,
    Someone here emailed me the other day with a question about Mick's etude book, and I lost the message! Whoever wrote, please re-send and I'll reply! Thanks!
    Marc

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #802

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    One of the things I like doing (with Vol 1) is: playing two- or three-voice versions of the 7th chord cycles, and then applying them to a tune. For fun, I wrote out two choruses of "All the things .." using two different, two-voice cycles. In real-life, especially when playing with a pianist or other guitarist, this may be all you need to play when comping! [Of course, I just wrote this in whole- and half-notes, and not actual "comping rhythms," so please do your own variations!] See what you think!

    ATTYA - Goodrick 2-voice.pdf

  4. #803

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    And a three-voice version:

    ATTYA - Goodrick 3-voice.pdf

  5. #804

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    I would like to work with the dominant diminished scale, half step/whole step diminished, in a systematic way, similar to Goodricks cycles, but I haven't been able to work out how to do it.

    Does anyone have any advice? How do you harmonize the dominant diminished scale?

    bengt

  6. #805

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    Quote Originally Posted by thule View Post
    I would like to work with the dominant diminished scale, half step/whole step diminished, in a systematic way, similar to Goodricks cycles, but I haven't been able to work out how to do it.

    Does anyone have any advice? How do you harmonize the dominant diminished scale?

    bengt
    Because the 7 note scales become easy to work with after a while, and the logic Mick lays out is using 7 note scales, I've worked a bit with 7 note variations of the diminished scale. But I haven't sat down to figure out the voice leading systems with an 8 note scale.

    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-untitled-jpg

    Just curious, for what purpose?

    Edit: excuse the "6" vs double flatted seventh in the chart; this is part of a larger scale list with some automatic enharmonics.

  7. #806

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    Oh woops, thanks Mick for pointing out - these are for the 'other' version - one can just swap the chart up to actually be for a dominant as was specified (Eg , 1 2 b3 becomes b9 #9 (major)3) just a little 'find and replace'



    wouldn't be shocked if there's a typo or two in this one: Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-untitled-2-jpg
    Last edited by JakeAcci; 10-27-2020 at 07:52 PM.

  8. #807

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    While I'm taking up space, I'm going to mention that I made a tool that basically produces all notes and possible guitar voicings for cycle material, with a fairly exhaustive set of options, and the user just has to click through a few drop-down menus to select the options they like. Quick demo video here



    Aside from the center area where the user selects options, the vertical columns are for each chord, and there are many guitar voicings options for each chord present by scrolling down beyond what's visible in the video. A lot of time and energy was put into making the voicing rows connect in a player-friendly logic. Meaning, you can select a key, cycle, voicing structure, chord type, scale type, and then the tool produces some options of the most practical ways to play the chords of that cycle on guitar, and you can sit and play them through instantly. Alternate tuning options are there and they are easy, no 7 string options at this time.

    I'll admit that's nowhere near a complete description of the organization and the purpose of the damn thing, and it may be confusing to look at at first. But with a little walk through it's easy to use.

    Posting it here because I'm curious if this is interesting to anybody - I'd think for those working on cycles that it would be appealing and practical to be able to save the administrative steps of writing down the notes and finding voicings when working with the the activities that require maximum brainpower (for example, a more complex combination of parameters like scale type, chord type, etc. The tricky first step is just writing down the damn notes.) This was an obsessive project back in July or so, I think I posted it then and to be honest was surprised that it sparked absolutely zero discussion except for one PM from a user here that I've known for a long time. Not that I'm sensitive, hah!

    I've been pondering plans for polishing it up and sharing it.

  9. #808

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    Symmetrical scales yield symmetrical results. Not as varied as the standard 7 note scale harmonizations but does offer some interesting chord pairs that articulate diminished scale harmonic function in a perhaps less obvious presentation.

    C Db Eb E F# G A Bb

    Alternating minor chords and 1st inversion majors

    C Eb G
    C# E A
    Eb Gb Bb
    E G C
    F# A C#
    G Bb Eb
    A C E
    Bb Db Gb

    Alternating major chords with 2nd inversion minor chords

    C E G
    C# F# A
    Eb G Bb
    E A C
    Gb Bb Db
    G C Eb
    A C# E
    Bb Eb Gb

    etc.

    Non-symmetrical 8 note scales provide a richer palette, especially when engaging with structures that Barry Harris describes as containing "borrowed notes".


    C D E F G Ab A B C

    C E G B
    D F Ab C
    E G A D
    F Ab B E
    G A C F
    Ab B D G
    A C E G#
    B D F A

    C E G# B
    D F A C
    E G B D
    F Ab C E
    G A D F
    Ab B E G
    A C F G#
    B D G A

    etc.

    Jake,

    I suspect you know this, but for anyone who hasn't checked out 7 of 8 extracts of diminished scales. Although each variation on your list has slightly different notes, there are only two unique intervallic structures to be found.

  10. #809

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    I've been curious for a while about six note 'gapped modes' where a note is omitted and the creative palette is slightly reduced – it's great to see a discussion of this idea applied to the diminished scale. The diminished whole-tone scale is already shown in the Almanacs as mode seven of the Melodic Minor sections, but Jake's idea about dropping a note started to sound good quite quickly - naming notes and chords takes a bit of thought, with the augmented second interval causing similar convolutions to what it does in the Harmonic Minor scale. I came up with this last night from Jake's 'Dominant Diminished (1) omit b9' (C D# E F# G A Bb C):

    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-7-note-gapped-jpg

    All the best
    Mick W
    Last edited by Mick Wright; 11-12-2020 at 07:00 AM.

  11. #810

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    Cool Mick

    since I input these as variants of the WH dim scale, i input that example as the G WH excluding the b5, that way cycle 4 looks basically the same as if it were starting on C HW omit b9 . (but adding a scale is easy, and there's a 'custom scale' option anyway)

    Some misc results...interesting sounds (and let's see if these images format properly)

    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-1-jpg
    Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-2-jpg

  12. #811
    I've been working on some fun things involving chromatic movement in voice led cycles.
    The cycles in the almanacs all involve diatonic smooth movement from chord tone to chord tone. I was thinking of just how much I like the "wrongness" and "edge" that chromatic approach notes can impart and how they really highlight the quality of the target chord when it arrives.
    My practice time now includes inner voice movement at the time. If one of the inner voices (alto or tenor in SATB talk) is a 5th, and the tendency of the cycle is descending, I'll sharp the 5th and it becomes a chromatic approach note in contrary motion. Likewise if the tendency of the voice movement is ascending, the 5th is flatted and yes, it's wrong at that moment, but in the voice movement of the voice flow, it's like a little white water that makes the flow exciting.
    The 5th is nice to work with because aside from the -7b5, it's a stable voice that is not a guide tone and it's got a chromatic note above and below it.
    I have been working on some aspect of the Almanacs during this entire pandemic and I'll say at this point the greatest changes in my playing are not the patterns within the pages of the books, but the expansion of perception they have allowed me to achieve. Hearing any voice within the tonal area and within the chord at the same time. That's a big one that leads to chord movement that's melodic and freshly functional.
    For those who've been using the cycles, check out chromatic altering. If the cycle descends, raising the root in an inner voice also makes one of those "What's THAT?" chords that resolves or evaporates into the next chord.
    Let me know if you find this to be true.

  13. #812
    Here's another "Of course!" approach that now seems obvious.
    Four part 7ths can be led through cycles, that's obvious. But a more dramatic accentuation of voice movement, particularly in the middle voices can be achieved through playing a four part chord as a triad, only voicing BTS or BAS alternatively.
    When you do this, the voice travels from voice to voice, and it's not diffused through the movement of each 4 part chord. In other words, the melodic line travels from voice to voice, like a melody being passed from one instrument to another in a string quartet or symphonic work.
    The B and S voice still outline the chordal movement but the inner voices can act either in concert or counter to those voices by changing the voicing of the triad. You still use the chords of your fretting hand as you would, but you only pick out one of the inner voices. This, of course is easier when you play finger style, and if you're playing finger or classical style, you can bring out the inner voices through dynamics to give a greater clarity to the moving inner voice. Add to that the chromatic alteration in the above posting and your chordal work takes on a sophistication that was only thought a piano could achieve.
    Have fun.

  14. #813

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    I'm just delving into the surface of vol 3, it's great fun, with lots of exciting ideas. I'm glad I didn't look at it and concentrated on vol 2 for many years. Vol 3 is a new adventure, at least for me.

  15. #814
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden View Post
    I'm just delving into the surface of vol 3, it's great fun, with lots of exciting ideas. I'm glad I didn't look at it and concentrated on vol 2 for many years. Vol 3 is a new adventure, at least for me.
    Got to admit, V3 seemed like the outer limits of possibilities, and it scared me clear for a long time. Now that V2 gave me a self determined and self realized guide to finding the unexpected, V3 makes so much sense and truly is turning out to be the "Now that I've got your attention" capstone of the series.
    There was a conversation I had with Mick during the lock down. I asked him how he saw his own philosophy diverging from the Berklee framework he coexisted with for so long. He began by asking me "have you read the introductions? A lot of people just jump into the pages but I explain it in the introductions. You shouldn't need to ask me this." This is typical Mick: He assumed what he knows is apparent to everyone.
    In short, he was and had been frustrated by the study of 4 part harmony, specifically that so much emphasis has been put on harmony built on THIRDS. Tertiary harmony. "Three and four part chords can be built on thirds of course, but assumptions, especially in the guitar world, that that is the only way to see music really limits the sound of music as we know it. You can group three or four note chords in ways that are not explored traditionally. Fourths of course, but on a piano you can play three note chords in clusters, or groups of notes, some closer than the third some more spread out, and they don't always fall into ways that adhere to the rules we give to traditional tertiary harmony. On a guitar, you can voice these clusters or groupings closed, but you're set by the way the instrument is layed out. Spread clusters offer the solution. All these note groupings have ways they can be voice led, or given applications inside our own (modal or scale based) harmony.
    For the adventurous composer, player or sound explorer, this is all seen as untapped territory. It's all there in the Almanacs. Only a handful of people are using this knowledge creatively."
    There are ways of seeing note movement that are seen by only a few, mostly composers, pianists and Ben Monder. But V3 is the volume that says "For those that have REALLY worked with V1 and 2, you must be finding things nobody else could have explained, and you probably have questions. So there it is. Some ideas for players who spend enough time on their instruments to acquire a hunger for options in harmony and sound.
    Fair warning: If you derive most of your knowledge from the (valid) wisdom gleaned from a lot of transcription, and you feel your time is most productive exploring the canon in that way, there is a lot here that might be seen as a waste of time.
    If you're a restless sonic explorer who asks questions like What and What If, then you may still be wasting your time, but there are many things you will encounter and if it resonates with you, it's your job to make it relevant and beautiful.
    It's an amazing instrument, the guitar. Here you have an unusual engine with untested possibilities.

  16. #815

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    Great post !

    Goodrick’s book (w/CD) he published with Tim Miller ‘Creative Chordal Harmony for Guitar’ might be a welcome introduction for anyone getting into Vol 1-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note View Post
    If you're a restless sonic explorer who asks questions like What and What If, then you may still be wasting your time, but there are many things you will encounter and if it resonates with you, it's your job to make it relevant and beautiful.
    It's an amazing instrument, the guitar. Here you have an unusual engine with untested possibilities.

  17. #816
    Hey let's do something interesting on this thread. Let's talk soloing philosophy, and the way we see applied harmony. It's relevant, it's personal and it definitely speaks to why and how one would use alternative approaches to changes of a piece.
    I think people who have been using this for a little while may have seen new ways of seeing the fingerboard, and maybe this is a way for some of us to introduce ourselves to one another as a community of harmonic interpreters. Anybody up for a discussion?

    I'm throwing this out there because I've started to look at Christmas carols.
    I love the Christmas season because it offers a chance to play things everyone knows, these are REAL standards, and the harmonic forms are so simple and essential that they don't need a page of changes, and there's such a rich opportunity to embellish harmony and everyone knows the song so if you're crafty enough to bring the harmonic flow of some chords to a convergence that's strong, everyone can appreciate the form of the song, and the ear of the listener is there with you.

    Anyone up for bringing this material to life for these days of diminishing light and searching for goodwill and goodchord?

  18. #817

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    I am still bringing up the rear on this project. I decided I needed to do some remedial work on inversions and it has helped quite a bit.
    I am working on the suggestion to commit one cycle/voicing to memory - cycle 6 drop-2-3. It's easier for me to start with because only 1 voice moves.

    I have dabbled with book 2 to get a little variety in my practicing but I have decided to focus on book 1 mostly for now.

    I like working on cycles in different keys where some things work better for me in different areas of the neck. If I stick to one key I tend to gloss over voicings that are awkward in certain parts of the neck.

  19. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnoL View Post
    I am still bringing up the rear on this project. I decided I needed to do some remedial work on inversions and it has helped quite a bit.
    I am working on the suggestion to commit one cycle/voicing to memory - cycle 6 drop-2-3. It's easier for me to start with because only 1 voice moves.

    I have dabbled with book 2 to get a little variety in my practicing but I have decided to focus on book 1 mostly for now.

    I like working on cycles in different keys where some things work better for me in different areas of the neck. If I stick to one key I tend to gloss over voicings that are awkward in certain parts of the neck.
    Yeah, once you internalize the chord group and the inversions, this is really useful knowledge no matter if you voice lead or not, so it's time well spent, learn them as they're different depending on what string group you're using.
    Then this is what I found was really helpful: Look to the functional voice leading graphic. It'll tell you which voice will lead you into the next chord's root. For example in cycle 4, the fifth of the present chord will go down one scale step to the root of the next chord. What ever SABT or position that voice is in, that's the inversion you will use in your following chord. So you see, it trains you to hear the chord you're playing, the voice within, the position of the next chord as your ear guides you to the hand position you need. This is the way I see/hear it and it reduces the thought process from 4 individual juggling voices to one guide voice taking you to the next chord that you know the grab for.
    Running a cycle is more than just voice leading 4 voices, it's seeing how chords that belong together will talk with one another.
    Practicing this stuff is as much a matter of practicing perception as it is anything else.
    Good luck