The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #276

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    that's great!
    If there's anything I can contribute with, I'll be happy to...
    Looking forward for good(chord)news !

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #277

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    I'd like to add my name to those who have enjoyed this thread and would be interested in seeing where it leads.


    steve

  4. #278

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    Anyone care to comment on how you've been using the voice leading material? or the factorial rhythms material? Any personal stories?

    I've been tutoring some students through the Berklee ear training program. There's a big hurdle some run into when reading complex rhythms, and to be able to sight sing them can be challenging. The factorial rhythms are broken down into little molecular pieces that students can hear, and when displaced by rests to different places in the measure they sound different but can be seen the same way. By using the factorial rhythms, all the students I've worked with not only become fluent in hearing and writing the most complex rhythmic combinations, but it shows up in their playing almost immediately. They discover that one way to develop an idea is to find a rhythmic displacement of any idea. It really helps them to see the rhythmic identity of a phrase as something that can be played with.

    The voice leading material is beginning to show up in most unexpected places. Once I begin to hear even a small progression of a few chords, and anticipate a chord at the end of that grouping, I can plug several bars of voice led chords the way you'd use a chord substitute. But instead of one "different" chord, there is an entire movement of harmony that just makes sense in the resolution.

    I've also been using the chords as single note lines, in different orders of arpeggiation to get some really spectacular linear ideas. The nice thing is, it sounds like it complicated because there a lot of notes but it's just a string of voice led chords. It sounds like a lot of notes but it makes perfect harmonic sense.
    Using voice led pieces derived from the melodic minor scale, you can plug in a passage where you'd put a lydian dominant substitution. That sounds outside but it comes home with the half step resolution. Tricky and nice and easy once you get it in your ears.

    Anyone else?

    David

  5. #279

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    I must admit to skipping from page 1 to the last of this thread. However, are the voice leading books going to be republished? I own #1 and #2. I'd like to purchase #3. Any info would be great.
    Thank you

  6. #280

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    Quote Originally Posted by taurusgtr
    I must admit to skipping from page 1 to the last of this thread. However, are the voice leading books going to be republished? I own #1 and #2. I'd like to purchase #3. Any info would be great.
    Thank you

    Looking into publishing options right now. Watch for it.
    David

  7. #281

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    mick, garrison fewell, AND jon damian are all retiring? it's the end of an era. who's left from the old guard... brett willmott and richie hart?

    anyways, the work you're doing is exemplary, TruthHertz/David. as much as it pains us to admit, guys like Mick won't be around forever, and documenting as much of his thoughts, methods, works, and teaching as possible while he's still got the drive and ability to push the instrument forward is going to be crucial for the next generation of players. I only wish that Charlie Banacos got such a thorough treatment before his untimely passing.

    I believe you have my email, but if not, I will gladly PM you again to keep in touch and possibly help out (if needed) with any developments on this front.

  8. #282

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    I just heard about these Goodchord Voice Leading books. Are they gonna be put back in print? Anyone got a copy they want to $ell?

  9. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broyale
    I just heard about these Goodchord Voice Leading books. Are they gonna be put back in print? Anyone got a copy they want to $ell?
    Bro,
    This is a very long -- and rich -- thread, with lots of info on the books, upcoming printings, new projects, etc. It would be worth your time to go back and check it out.

    [BTW, an original book sold on eBay recently for a couple hundred bucks, so be prepared]

    Enjoy!

  10. #284

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy
    Bro,
    This is a very long -- and rich -- thread, with lots of info on the books, upcoming printings, new projects, etc. It would be worth your time to go back and check it out.

    [BTW, an original book sold on eBay recently for a couple hundred bucks, so be prepared]

    Enjoy!
    I ain't got time to sift through 11+ pages of all that, I just want the books or info on when the books will be available in print. If anyone got all three volumes to sell, hit me up.

  11. #285

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    I've started using the voice leading material mainly to learn triads and 7th chords all over the fretboard.
    I'm trying to incorporate triads in my single-line soloing more to get a more 'open' sound. For example over a Cmaj chord I could combine F and G triads or D and C triads for a lydian sound.

    And like said before on this thread certain parts of cycles can sound great if you play them over chords using either chords or single notes. Secondly working with this material hopefully allows me in the future to see where the notes of the triads are on the neck.
    Also it's great for my ears. I'm going to try singing along with seperate voicings for that.

    I haven't got the books so I have mostly used the info on this thread, some examples I've found online and my creativity to come up with cycles.

    TruthHertz: If you don't mind me asking: Do you actually teach at Berklee and if so what's your full name? Just curious!

    ps. It would be great to start a thread where we could discuss the factorial rhythms material. I'm really curious what the contents are about but I can't find ANYTHING about it online. Is the material something you can easily do yourself like with the almanacs?

    Cheers

  12. #286

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    Hi!

    If there are any plans of re-publishing Mr.Goodchord's crown jewels, I'm in!
    I already have the Advancing Guitarist, The Factorial Rhythm
    & Almanacs 1&2 but I would really gladly pay any reasonable price
    (in tens of dollars, not hundreds) for Almanac vol. 3, variations on Falling Grace
    (love that tune! Been playing it as a jazz waltz) & the new rhythm book!
    So if there's any plans for unearthing these count me in as a customer... :-)

    regards

    M

    P.S. Thanks David & others for the wonderful info - appreciate it deeply!

  13. #287

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    The three volumes of Almanacs is being reorganized by scale type. That'll mean you'll be able to get them in smaller volumes based on Major, Melodic, Harmonic minor. It makes a lot of sense since the originals tended to be overwhelming to the vast majority of guitarists. There'll be 7 volumes.
    I'm trying to put together a Kickstarter to this end.
    I sent a copy of the re-organized Volume 3 material to Ben this summer. Be forewarned!
    David
    The rhythm book will be out within a month. It's changed the way I organize my soloing...thinking like a drummer.
    Last edited by TH; 08-30-2014 at 07:36 AM.

  14. #288

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    I am looking forward to these David. Thank you for all your efforts.

    I would definitely contribute to the Kick Starter campaign.

  15. #289

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    I can only imagine what Mr. Monder will get up to with the volume 3 material. Also, is the rhythm book you are discussing a reorganized "Factorial Rhythm" or something new?

    Thanks David!
    Last edited by jeromesteele; 08-31-2014 at 03:18 AM.

  16. #290

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeromesteele
    I can only imagine what Mr. Monder will get up to with the volume 3 material. Also, is the rhythm book you are discussing a reorganized "Factorial Rhythm" or something new?

    Thanks David!
    All new material, rhythmic phrases exhaustively organized in two measure repeatable loops. This creates a subtly shifting rhythmic pattern that explores and opens up the ear to different displacements, groupings, patterns and ideas of space.
    In a quick summary, Mick realized that rhythm is maybe the most important, if not most overlooked element in soloing organization. Guitarists tend to phrase "machine gun style" and the neglect of weight or space i.e. use of thoughtful groupings makes us think differently. When you phrase by habit or strictly by imitative ear, you can limit what you do, where you can go. For those players, he's written this book Repeat After Me.
    It's a listing of rhythmic groupings to be played, heard, listened to, explored with no melodic content specified. It's a rhythm encyclopedia that can change the way you hear space, the way you compose, the way you solo.
    It's a little like factorial rhythms but he put them in two measure phrases meant to be played, and it's more musical in the presentation and exploration.
    You hear a lot more sophistication in arrangements, in drummers' solos, in instrumentalists who have an active rhythmic concept. So Mick has written the bible on rhythmic phrasing. Not for everyone. Not until you hit the rhythmic wall of "Why did I play that AGAIN?!!" then he's provided a book of answers.
    Coming out in the next few weeks. It's at the publisher's now.
    David

  17. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    Coming out in the next few weeks. It's at the publisher's now.
    David
    Where can I order?!?!?!


  18. #292

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    That's great new, David!
    Looking forward to the rhythm book. Who's going to publish it?

  19. #293

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    We're self publishing with Lulu.com. You know for all those other books, the Almanacs, the factorial rhythms, they were all turned down by Hal Leonard and Berklee Press because they were pronounced "Not interesting for the public". Go figure.
    David

  20. #294

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    Please keep us updated as to when we may order them from lulu, David. Please. And thank you.

  21. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    Please keep us updated as to when we may order them from lulu, David. Please. And thank you.
    It'll be available through Amazon, or from Mick somehow. I'll be letting you know.

    On another topic though, does anyone include Voice Leading material in their practice routines these days? It seems like a nice time to take a section and possibly begin a support group here of a few members who'd like to explore and keep some kind of forum journal on impressions of the material. So we might all benefit from the experience.
    I'll tell you one thing, the learning curve on this material is intimidating for some, for a lot of people. We might all benefit from sharing the experience.

    I'll begin here with some personal notes:
    The book was volume 1 and it was really exciting to buy, there was such incredible promise in the legendary book; a book that could change and revolutionize my approach so after immersion in it I'd be able to effortlessly voice lead like Bach in real time chord soloing. Yeah it was like Christmas to buy it but it was like a Christmas present that, when I tore open the wrapping, opened the box, contained a million pieces, had a manual 800 pages long and they were all blank pages.
    The book slowly crept onto the shelf, and occasionally I'd get a running start, put it on my music stand and run through a few pages. It didn't help that sometimes I'd be put off by the cryptic notation, the fact that it'd call me on the fact that I didn't know the fingerboard down cold ( oh yes. This is an absolute requirement, you must know the location of every note on the fingerboard before you begin. These things move ALL over the place and there's no indication of where or when you change position. It's like anti-TAB) or that some of this material is literally impossible to play on the guitar.

    Fast forward to a one time Summer camp session that was held in Western MA. It was a time when musicians from all over the world came to create a collective of voice leading adventurers. Every day for two weeks(?) we studied, hung, listened to others play beautiful music, discussed the books, and everything else...and I realized one thing. It really helps to do this in a group and to hear it. It's easier to take our discoveries great and small, and share them with another.

    So here we are, maybe some volunteers on breaking open material? Specific cycles we might tear into as a collective? Any takers? Just to plant the seeds before any releases can find the legal light of day. I might offer some pages in google doc for any pioneers who want to join in. Any veterans want to suggest a chapter that we can decode and turn into music? Anybody use this over standards? In individual compositions? In free improv?

    I'll throw this out to the community and find out how many in this forum want to take a break from the world of shiny gear worship and jump into the deep end of the pool...no, the ocean. Any experiences anyone wants to share to begin with?

    David

  22. #296

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    I haven't been getting that much time on the guitar lately, but when I do I'm often drawn to things that reference the cycles. I've had a fetish for very large spreads lately, like the double drop two and drop 3, and something about cycle 3 always appeals to me as it just sounds like continuing to extend the same chord rather than a chord progression.

    I occasionally do solo improv shows where I do not play tunes but rather try to make up and structure pieces on the spot, and I definitely wind up incorporating voicings I have discovered via the books as well as some (but not that
    much) cyclical movement from the books.

    When I was working with the books, I was very rigorous about getting through all the triad material and I did quite a lot...that time spent has made me much more adept with spread triads and being able to harmonize melodies on the spot via spread triads, which is a really nice addition to my playing. It is a little bit more daunting to work to have the same level of fluency with say, the double drop 2 and drop 3 voicings, but perhaps it's something that will get some attention in the practice room some day.

    Also I know feel more comfortable being able to improvise with 3 or 4 part movement, but generally the parts either move parallel or there are many common tones. I don't see this as a bad thing though it's less "Advanced" then improvising 4 part counterpoint, I think it can be really nice to have a lot of sustaining voices while one or two voices shift around. Can be a nice effect, and easier to play on the guitar while still getting nice timbre and sustain.

    The last cycle I was messing with was double drop 2 and drop 3 voicing for cycle 3 in C#harmonic minor. Maybe I'll write out or demo what that sounds like...very nice on the guitar.

    Edited to add: I realized I did record that cycle already, when I was in Cape Cod a few weeks ago:

    Last edited by JakeAcci; 09-04-2014 at 09:06 AM.

  23. #297
    I'm one of the unlucky folks who didn't get the chance to buy the books before they went out of print, so I'm very glad to hear that they are going to be available again.


    I was able to get enough information on the structure of the first two books to write out my own reduced versions of the first two books and incorporate the ideas into my practice. I have no idea what was contained in the 3rd volume, but I've heard that that volume is probably the most interesting. Is this going to be reprinted in its entirety?


    I have to admit that while I'm very excited to hear that they are being reprinted, I am slightly confused as to why they are going to be expanded to 7 volumes when surely the more logical thing to do would be to reduce the information to a single volume, without writing out the different keys. What is the reason for the expansion? The thing that I felt I was missing by not having the books was the words and insight of Mick Goodrick, not the pages of notes that can be worked out pretty easily once you know the formulas for the voice leading. Will they still have his original introductions and notes?


    As for using the material in practice, recently I've been concentrating on voice leading all 3 note voicings. I know that triads and 3 part 4ths are covered in the volumes, but I've also been voice leading clusters, 7no3, and 7no5 chords. After voice leading these for a while I find myself instinctively moving out of "practice mode" and into "explorer mode" and adding a 4th note every now and then...I also find it much easier to seamlessly work in passing notes into the 3note chords without it sounding clunky.


    Anyway, looking forward to the books!

  24. #298

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen_Bridgland

    I have to admit that while I'm very excited to hear that they are being reprinted, I am slightly confused as to why they are going to be expanded to 7 volumes when surely the more logical thing to do would be to reduce the information to a single volume, without writing out the different keys. What is the reason for the expansion?
    It's not an expansion into keys Stephen, it's taking the enormous amount of information and organizing it into more manageable parts. Though originally presented as an exhaustive listing of voice led cycles in the key of C, expansion to other keys left to the user, that still holds, but volume one was made up of diatonic cycles, melodic minor cycles and harmonic minor based cycles. They were colour coded and made a book larger than a New York City phone book. They were also seen to be prohibitively expensive at the time. Mick broke them down into the scale families so you could work on melodic minor sounds exclusively, decide that harmonic minor sounds and fingerings were not useful right now and leave them for another day.
    So volume 1 became 3 volumes, diatonic, MM based, HM based.
    Volume 2 became 3 volumes the same...
    Volume 3 has become 2, according to a logical breakdown of that challenging material.
    So there'll be 8 actually. Mick's got some new notes for each and I'm thinking of compiling supplementary helpful work material, some with the help of people here on this thread.

    It was thought that students would find focused individual volumes more conducive to working with on a day to day level. It was thought that some could take the ideas of one volume and, getting to really know it, make the expansion to the others on their own. It was thought that putting an already concentrated book, smaller in size, on your music stand and working on it for 6 months would be vastly preferable to having one massive doorstop on your bookshelf forever.
    The goal here was always to allow the curious user the means by which they'd assimilate and get "off book" as effectively as possible. If you wanted to get to know the beauty of Shakespeare's sonnets, you wouldn't need to buy and carry around the collected unabridged works of Shakespeare including all the historical plays with Marlowe's writings for comparison. It's a practical thing. And it makes the ticket into this world a lot cheaper.
    I hope this clears up the question a little.

    David

  25. #299

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    It's not an expansion into keys Stephen, it's taking the enormous amount of information and organizing it into more manageable parts. Though originally presented as an exhaustive listing of voice led cycles in the key of C, expansion to other keys left to the user, that still holds, but volume one was made up of diatonic cycles, melodic minor cycles and harmonic minor based cycles. They were colour coded and made a book larger than a New York City phone book. They were also seen to be prohibitively expensive at the time. Mick broke them down into the scale families so you could work on melodic minor sounds exclusively, decide that harmonic minor sounds and fingerings were not useful right now and leave them for another day.
    So volume 1 became 3 volumes, diatonic, MM based, HM based.
    Volume 2 became 3 volumes the same...
    Volume 3 has become 2, according to a logical breakdown of that challenging material.
    So there'll be 8 actually. Mick's got some new notes for each and I'm thinking of compiling supplementary helpful work material, some with the help of people here on this thread.

    It was thought that students would find focused individual volumes more conducive to working with on a day to day level. It was thought that some could take the ideas of one volume and, getting to really know it, make the expansion to the others on their own. It was thought that putting an already concentrated book, smaller in size, on your music stand and working on it for 6 months would be vastly preferable to having one massive doorstop on your bookshelf forever.
    The goal here was always to allow the curious user the means by which they'd assimilate and get "off book" as effectively as possible. If you wanted to get to know the beauty of Shakespeare's sonnets, you wouldn't need to buy and carry around the collected unabridged works of Shakespeare including all the historical plays with Marlowe's writings for comparison. It's a practical thing. And it makes the ticket into this world a lot cheaper.
    I hope this clears up the question a little.

    David
    Owning all three of the original volumes, I totally dig the idea of breaking up all the information. Especially Vol. 1 has been very intimidating with the wealth of information it has. I found it easier to work with Vol. 3.
    but the tutorials in this thread have been very helpful in digging into Vol. 1 as well.
    nevertheless I'm in for a pruchase of the whole monty.


    cheers,
    uli

  26. #300

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    After being lost in the voicing jungle, I went back to basics, and re started from triads, using the cycle idea (and my spreadsheet) to compile this document...
    Hope someone finds it useful.
    Attached Images Attached Images Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?-f-quartal-jpg 
    Last edited by e_del; 09-06-2014 at 09:28 AM.