-
In a chord progression which is:
Dm7 - Db7 - Cm7 - B7
Why would someone play these corresponding scales?:
D Phrygian - Db Lydian Dominant - C Dorian - B Lydian Dominant
I see it's a chromatic descending bass line and that the minor chords are the target ones but I don't understand the purpose of using the Lydian Dominant mode over those chords. Why not mixolydian or the Hindu scale?
I had a teacher that wrote this on my page but I can't get ahold of him and I want to know. Any of you know?
-
05-23-2008 07:29 AM
-
You could, But it might help if you looked at this as simple ii-V progressions with the V being a tri-tone substitute. The Db7 is a substitute for G7, The B7 subs for F7. Looking at it like this gives you more options. also, you could use and Ab 'jazz' melodic minor scale against the Db7 and it will sound good. (Gb for the B7)
Another thing to consider is to avoid scales that have the same root as the chord. Don't use D modes for a D chord. Try working off the third or 5th. For example F is the 3rd of D so look for a mode that fits, but starting on F. A is the 5th of D so start looking for a mode that starts on A.
F mixolydian contains the same notes as the D phrygian so you could use that is you wish. Or, A locrean also has the same notes . You could use even the C dorian (7th) and still have the same notes.
I say this because if you think about it, in a group setting chances are that somebody (bass, keyboard, etc) will be playing D as the root. To make it more interesting you should avoid the D and look for the more colorful notes. Starting with a mode other than the root helps you with this. same with Arpeggios. (use an Fma7 against the Dm7 ex.)
-
Well in a short answer, in jazz the Dorian scale is used most of the time on m7 chords that aren't the tonic. So both the Dm7 and C7 chords will take these scales, D Dorian and C Dorian.
For the Db7 and B7, the Mixo#11 scale works because, as John stated, they are tritone subs for G7 and F7, so the #11 from each scale, G on Db7 and F on B7, helps to connect it to the original chord. This way if a piano player was comping the original chords, G7 and F7, your won't clash by playing major 7ths, F# and E, on those chords, which would happen if you were playing the plain mixo scales.
MW
-
Oooohhh. I see. That makes total sense. And that teacher introduced me to using arpeggios based on other than the root chord tones after he wrote that stuff down. Maybe you've heard of him. Alex Machacek? He's a fusion player. He taught me when I went to MI. I had to leave the school early though, unfortunately.
Thanks for the answer!
-
Sorry, no I'm not familiar with him. But you know, for every hot shot pro tearing up a fretboard and putting out some hot Cd's theres a whole bunch of excellent players you will never hear of outside of their area.
I'm from northern NJ. In my neck of the woods We have Vic Juris, Bob De Vos, The Pizzareli's, Dave Stryker, Ed Cherry, George Benson lived here for most of his life, and probably a whole bunch of famous guitarists that I 'm forgetting. (Joe Pass was born in NJ). These are all successful, famous guitarists.
However there was one guitarist out here, the late Harry Leahy , that was a monster amongst monsters. He had a few albums out in the 70's,80's but his big gig was with Phil Woods from '75 to 80. (I think)
Harry played on Phil's 1976 grammy award winning 'Live at the showboat" and Song for Sysiphus. He also played with Ira Sullivan, Don Sebesky, Al Cohen and Mark Murphey. His playing on these cat's albums is great but his reputation as a "buddha" of guitar came from watching him play his solo gigs or when you had your lesson with him.
He would never cease to amaze me. I remember picking my jaw up off the floor when we were playing 'Spain' and he played the middle section in octaves AND double octaves for a few of the notes. All while grinning a little grin . A real humbling experience. But it is from Harry Leahy that I get my harmonic sensibilities (or lack of). I still can't believe the amount of chords he taught me and taught me how to find. If I'm correct I think Vic Juris spent some time studying with him back in the late '60's early 70's.
Anyway, The moral of my story though is just to show my point about famous and not so famous players. You probably never heard of Harry before this post. none the less he was every bit the player as any A lister currently touring the world
-
His name is spelled Leahey. Here's Harry with another Jersey native, Woody Shaw.
-
You guys are awesome
Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero
-
@ ChuckCorbisiero,
Yes, I don't know why I left out the "e". I'm sure I included it in the many other posts where I mention Harry.
Did you know Harry? Do you have any recordings? I've tracked down almost everything that's listed on line. I even contacted this guy in Italy who is a HUGE Phil Woods fan to see if he had anything that might not have been released.
-
I used to go to Gulliver's in the late 70's and check out Harry live. Harry was Guitar Legend to me( like Tal). A guy Eugene Valles or Gene Valles of Garden City, N.Y., a student of Harry's(about 50 now) made tapes of Harry live (with his permission). He has them and they are incredible. Haven't seen Gene since 1984. Another person who played with him sometimes and might know more is Don Higdon a professional Double Bass player and Physical Therapist certified in Alexander Technique in the phone book in Jersey. I think Don is in Ridgewood, N.J. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. There is a thesis which maps out Harry's "sets" and other neat stuff which you can google. It's fantastic.
Last edited by ChuckCorbis; 09-16-2010 at 02:06 PM.
-
@Chuck
Yes I've seen the thesis. Don sounds familiar. I used to go to Gullivers as well. I went to William Paterson as a jazz major back in 76 and 79-80 or so.
I remember seeing Bob DeVos and his fusion band which had Lenny Argese on second guitar there one Monday night. I asked him what kind of guitar he had and he told me it was a strat. I said "a strat?" and he looked at me kind of funny.
Excellent show that night.
-
Well, some of the best jazzers are cock eyed or cross eyed. Check out Joe DiOrio and of course Bird. I am. He was just messin' with you probably.
Last edited by ChuckCorbis; 09-16-2010 at 02:52 PM.
-
Just came across this thread and yes it is very late but Alex is on Facebook so send him a message and he may reply depending on his schedule. I wonder if he would remember the lesson. Originally Posted by November
-
Everything depends upon context, but this sequence, by itself, suggests it might be in the context of Bb major. In other words, it appears to be a 3 - 6 - 2 - 5 (or iii - VI7 - ii - V7, if you prefer) with tri-tone substitutions. Originally Posted by November
I would have ascribed: Bb maj, Ab mel minor, Bb maj, Gb mel minor. (And, you're probably resolving to Bb major, but again, I don't know the context.)
Note that the chord scales I just suggested are the same thing as what you posted originally. Note also that it doesn't matter if the bassist and other musicians are thinking/playing Dm7 - Db7 - Cm7 - B7 or Dm7 - G7 - Cm7 - F7, the suggested chord scales remain the same.
-
What a great surprise to hear Harry Leahey mentioned. I was lucky enough to take a few months of lessons from him in the early 80's. I learned more in those few lessons than I learned in the previous 6 years of playing. What an amazing player he was!
-
Originally Posted by bshowers
I'm always talking about Harry. I studied with him while at WPC (now (WPU). With the help of another of his old students we've been able to come up with just about every known recording that we could get our mitts on. His son Jimmy is quite a player.
I wrote out "one" of his versions of Django's Castle (He had so many..) that was from around the time he did the Live album with Phil Woods so it's kind of like that. Did you know that album won a Grammy? I think it was for best live jazz LP in 1976. I might have the date wrong though. PM me your e-mail and I'll send you a copy if you like
-
I learned of Harry Leahey on this forum.
Yesterday I purchased "Arpeggios for the Modern Guitarist,'
and instruction book by Stephen Ross because he states
that he was a student of Leahey.
Better be good or I'm coming after yooz guys for my $17.95.
-
Originally Posted by rabbit
I learned of Harry Leahey on this forum.
Yesterday I purchased "Arpeggios for the Modern Guitarist,'
and instruction book by Stephen Ross because he states
that he was a student of Leahey.
Better be good or I'm coming after yooz guys for my $17.95.
I'll have to check out his book. I can tell you that the way I learned them was like this:
1) one octave pure chords (maj, min, minb5, aug) Then adding a note like b2, 2, #2, 4, #4, b6 and 6. second part to this was to invent a riff using only the notes in the arp and play it through the cycle, but, in position. No big jumps
2) one octave seventh chords (ma7,7,mi7, mi7b5,dim7, mi/ma7, ma7#5 and b5 and then dom7#5 and b5. Second part to this was same as above. Write a pattern and move it through the cycle , in position
Simultaneous to this were your standard 7th chords 2 octaves plus inversions in position.
3) Great Arpeggio (full 13th) along with every 7 note scale and mode studied I had to play the full 13th arpeggio across 2 octave forward and back. (1 3 57 9 11 13 1)
After learning this I decided to take it one step further. I did #2 not only off the root but off the 3rd 5th and 7th. I then expanded #2 to be two octaves.
I then learned this all in 3 octaves using 2 different fingerings
Let me know if this stuff is in that book. If not maybe I'll write my own
-
JW400,
Thanks for the response.
I WILL keep you posted, but be patient. I've an awful long way to
go and a little health issues often slows me.
I've just started with arps, proper per se. Jimmy Bruno posted
a chart with the Maj7, min7, Dom7 & min7b5's embedded in
the 'five shapes.' I added some bits to this and am slowly motoring
thru it backwards & forwards. Right now I'm practicing these using the
various ii-V-I, I-VI-ii-V & iii-VI-ii-V root movements I learned from
Bruno.
Your advice is a step ahead (at least) of me today but I appreciate
it very much & will refer back and use it.
-
Here's a chart for you. Starts off with major 7. Then you would lower each chord tone until you get to the dim7 (7, mi7 etc)
I've posted it before. I don't know if anyone used it.
-
Thank you again!
I've saved it & will give it a run as soon.
Eventually, I'll report back here.
-
First impressions of "Arpeggios for the modern Guitarist" by Stephen Ross:
Author is a shredder & uses max speed, shred tone & lots of sweep picking
on the included CD. Does the shred orientation matter? Probably not, for the dough. I'll learn just digging for the stuff that builds on what (little)
I already know. More later.
-
To judge a book by its cover (I love not coining phrases!): Originally Posted by rabbit
SHRED! SHRED! He's movin' so fast his hands are a blur!
Reply With Quote
Video: The Harmonic Minor Scale in Jazz
Today, 10:47 AM in Improvisation