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Hi,
I was reading this book and it said that in the above progression, in G let's say: G-E7-Am-D7, that one should think of the E7 as the fifth of Am and, as such, play the A harmonic minor over the E7. Is that how you think of it? It seems strange to me because I don't think of that Am as a tonic minor but the ii of G. So does it make sense to play A harmonic minor there?
Thanks!
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11-04-2024 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam b
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Originally Posted by Sam b
*F mel because you're essentially playing the E altered scale: E F G Ab Bb C D E.
You can also use A melodic minor if you like that sound. It has the F#.
1) A harmonic
2) A melodic
3) F melodic
Last edited by ragman1; 11-05-2024 at 01:13 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sam b
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Thanks for these answers!
And thanks for playing all those options, Ragman!
So I could also think about playing the E7 chords tones adding a b9, b5 and #5, right?
I have a hard time thinking about playing different scales on chords so I often try to think of adding some notes to the chords tones.
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I would think of E7 chord tones. I think arpeggios sound better than scales. At least for now.
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Originally Posted by Sam b
But you'll want to consider which chord tones suit both chords, e.g., the b9th of E7 (F) is the b6th of Am, the #5th of E7 (C) is the 3rd of Am, etc., but if the chart says Am6, it implies F#, the 6th of the chord, the 9th of E7, and the 3rd of D7 which in this case follows the Am.
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Originally Posted by Sam b
I have a hard time thinking about playing different scales on chords
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I think this way.
You're in G tonal center.
But E7 has a G#, so you raise the G to a G#.
G tonal center has an F#. If the comping instrument plays an E9, then the F# will work. But, often enough, the comping instrument will play E7b9, in which case the F# will clash and F will sound better.
These choices correspond to melodic and harmonic minor. Many players think that way. I learned to think tonal center and chord tones. I think there are advantages to each.
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Originally Posted by Sam b
Think of the Am as being a temporary tonic.
Boppers often play the harmonic minor there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Remember it's ultimately how it sounds that matters, not what is technically correct or even possible.
Everything should be viewed in the context of the tune itself, the tempo, the style used, and so on. Any particular set of notes can sound great over one kind of tune but not so hot over another. Options are always invaluable.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
It's also quite common for Bird to swap out a bIII-7 over VI7. Which if you are a bit of a dweeb you could say gives a VI13b9 sound. I prefer to say that he saw that chord as a passing chord, and functionally VI7 and bIII-7 both move to II-7
Before Bird it was very common to use a 9b13 sound, more diatonic to the prevailing key. You hear people like Prez and Django do that a lot. You also see it standards melodies too - Out of Nowhere, East of the Sun etc.
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I discuss this stuff in these videos (among other things)
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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13b9 sound on a dominant. It's less trouble than harmonic major and/or diminished.
over E7:
E F G A B C# D E
R b9 b3 4 5 6/13 b7 R
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I guess I like the idea of thinking about E713b9 rather than thinking about playing a scale in a different key. It's a similar problem I have with upper extensions. I find it a lot easier to think about the relation of the notes to the chord at hand rather than playing a major or minor arpeggio starting on a different note. So "play the 9, 11, and 13 of C7" rather than "play a D minor arpeggio over C."
Ragman, you don't get the G# in that case, though. Isn't that a note you'd want to emphasize?
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Hello, Sam.
I was going to mention that but it was getting complicated. To be honest, I don't use the D mel a lot. The b9 is nice but I find the C# a bit vanilla. The G# is good and if I do use D mel I try to remember to flat the A to get the G#. Otoh, the nat G is a blue note and doesn't worry me too much.
The 13b9 is a pretty modern sound and if I really want to emphasise it I find the best way is to use the chord: x5666x, which is quite discordant.
So, all in all, I much prefer the F melodic. As I said, it resolves really well into the Am and does me nicely :-)
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oh,that looks like a very cool chord:
F
C#
G#
D
right? so
b2
6
3
b7?
Thanks!
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Originally Posted by ragman1
3 semitones in a row (G-G#-A), and 4 if they add the b5th (Bb).
Diminished is more appropriate for E13b9/#9/#11(b5) = E-F-G-G#-A#(Bb)-B-C#-D.
Originally Posted by Sam b
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I mean, if one is not concerned with any note clashing with any chord, this entire discussion is pointless.
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