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I heard this on the radio while working the other day, and the last chord of this movement really jumped out at me.
Maurice Ravel: Le tombeau de Couperin ?
Menuet
(Forum software doesn't appear to be letting me post a time stamped link. Jump to 15:15 for the last minute or so of the movement).
Key signature is G Major.
It was written as a piano piece around WWI, and the orchestral arrangement a couple of years later.
I found the last page to the piano score, and the last chord is E B D F# A.
In this recording, it sounds like the basses are playing G. So G Maj 7 with with a 9th and 13th?
It sounds like it could be from a Broadway soundtrack from the 1960s.
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10-13-2024 11:00 AM
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It’s a truly beautiful chord and sounds very modern. Ravel was influenced by jazz and found it inspiring.
It’s mentioned that Bill Evans was heavily influenced by Ravel and several other composers. He could sight read most anything at first glance. I’m a fan of Ravel’s Pavane for a dead princess, which I first heard when done by Eumir Deodato from a 1972 CTI recording.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Incidentally the orchestral score is available on IMSLP, it shows that there is an F# in there as well.
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Final chord is GDBDF#A.
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Originally Posted by emkc
More... just for fun, results indexed to C
Triads over triads:
Gb major over C major results in C7 #11 b9
Triads over four note 7th chords:
D major over C7 results in C9 13 #11
A major over C7 resulting in C13 b9
Ab major over C7 resulting in C7 #5 #9
Eb minor over C7 resulting in C7 #9 #11
Triads over two note "chords":
Db minor over C Bb results in C7 #5 b9
D major over E Bb results in C7 #11
Eb major over C E results in C7 #9
F# major over C E results in C7 b5 b9
F# minor over E Bb results in C7 b5 b9
A major over C Bb results in C7 b9
Others:
D major over Cmaj7 results in Cmaj13 #11
D minor seventh over C minor seventh results in Cm13
Abmaj7 over C7 results in C7 #9 b13
A sixth over C7 results in C13 b9 #11
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Thanks for the correction. Maybe my ears are funny. So it's what, GM13 but no C? The OP also seems to think there's an E in it somewhere.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Heh, I've been meaning (and putting) off suggesting a similar exercise with Brouwer's "Estudio Sencillo" #6. My little chord naming app shows at least 2 or 3 alternatives for almost every single chord in there so I've resolved to just playing them
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Fuck I hate the term jazzy.
Like the sweater your aunt gets you when you're 12.
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Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
EDIT: I mean, what good marketeer could come up with Jazz as the name for anything that's supposed to have an affirmative identity rather than "well, I can tell you what's not (a) jazz"?
I really can't remember that sweater though. Should I be even more concerned about my memory?
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Originally Posted by RJVB
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Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
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Originally Posted by ragman1
The 2nd violins and viola are playing diatonic upper trills from D and B respectively before the chord settles so there's a momentary E and C in there as well.
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Originally Posted by PMB
during its sustained extension (to a simpler type)
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I just went to the keyboard. It’s a standard GMaj7 chord with a 9 and 13. Which if you think about it, fits Ravel.
Composed between 1914-1917 sounds very modern and groundbreaking, but Gershwin was also integrating jazz type chords in symphonic works nearly at the same time.
G F# B E A. Sounds like the identical chord played by the orchestra. Sounds typical for jazz piano, but when the strings are playing it sounds fabulously hip. But I’m not hearing a C, which anyway would clash with the 3rd of GMaj (B).Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 10-14-2024 at 12:25 PM.
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Why complicate it? Gmaj9: 1 5 3 5 maj7 9. Yes, it's also a D triad over a G triad, but it's purpose as the final chord is resolution so it's just going to be the tonic.
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Agree with Grahambop and Cunamara – look at the score. In the measure before the final chord, there is a final dominant: an Am spelled out by the strings, with a pizzicato D in the double bass. It resolves to that Gmaj9.
There is no E in the final chord in the score. If Sr Martin followed the orchestration, there wasn't one in the soundtrack for the video, either.
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Listening to this reminds me of David Bruce saying ‘there’s something a bit obnoxious about how good Ravel is at orchestrating’ (or words to that effect.)
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Didn’t Stravinsky call him a ‘Swiss clockmaker’ or something like that?
I don’t know if it was meant as a compliment or not!
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