6th/dim or na?

[pamosmusic]

So here’s what I’ve been getting into.

It took me a while to find voicings that work for me because I don’t use a lot of drop 2s and the like. I use a lot of rootless shells on strings 432 and 431. So I do what I suppose are drop 2s without the Alto and drop 2s without the soprano to get voicings that fit on those string sets (I think they could also be root position triads spread and second inversion triads close, respectively but I don’t care much).

Anyway … I’ve been doing a key a day which is just what I do with most stuff. So I’ve been running the chord scales on the tonic 6 chord, the IV6 (or the ii), the important minor and the tritone minor.

Then I’ve been doing ii Vs in the key in question. Mostly doing chord scale motion with the ii (IV) chord in different places. Doing three attacks in each measure. Going to do two and four too. Just coming up with rhythms. That tends to be the hardest part for me is working them into phrases that fit rhythmically and aren’t too busy.

It sounds like a lot but it’s maybe 20 minutes? Could be more. The cadences could probably take three hours if I had that much time.

[Bobby Timmons]

Don't agree at all, sure he's cerebral but he can really swing too.

Did I say he doesn't swing? I praised his time feel. I said he's all cerebral all the time and doesn't have any semblance of a bluesy/black sound.

Barry Harris comes across as a grumpy old fart in that video.

Yes he does lol.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Barry was not a fan of Bill Evans.[...]

Translated from German Wikipedia:

"Four days after his [Bill Evans'] death, a memorial service was held at St. Peter's Church on Lexington Avenue, the traditional place of worship for New York's jazz scene, attended by musicians such as Richie Beirach, Eddie Gomez, Jim Hall, Barry Harris, Jeremy Steig and Warne Marsh, as well as Helen Keane and Nat Hentoff."

This video is repeated over and over but we do not really know the context of the story told by Barry.

[pamosmusic]

… and doesn't have any semblance of a bluesy/black sound.

Definition needed

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Oh … Alan Kingstone of JGO fame

The Barry Harris Harmonic Method for Guitar – Jazz School Online

[Bobby Timmons]

Definition needed

Figure it out.

[pamosmusic]

Figure it out.

Oh okay.

[pamosmusic]

The Barry Harris Harmonic Method for Guitar – Jazz School Online

Thats the one.

Really nice book. One caveat, it doesn’t have examples of tunes in it. I know part of that is just the pedagogy so I was expecting and find it concise and very useful. But I recall some folks remarking that they were disappointed by the lack of etudes on tunes.

In particular, I like the sort of anthology of movements he has in there. That’s what I’ve been using to kind of direct my ii-V work with it.

For what it’s worth, I went to a session last night and someone called No Greater Love and that’s probably the first time I’ve heard little flashes of the stuff come out. I think probably the moderate tempo and fairly slow harmonic rhythm lent itself to that kind of moving. Nice though.

[pamosmusic]

Oh okay.

I like Amiri Baraka on this topic about as much as anyone. I think he’d find the dichotomy between “blues” and “cerebral music” to be a false one.

[Bobby Timmons]

It's my personal preference foo. These are my favorite jazz pianists from the jazz piano thread. Bill is my 2nd favorite. It's just my personal qualms about his playing. Herbie and BT are the only bluesy/soulful ones where it comes through in the bulk of their playing. In Bill's playing, it's completely absent. I've never heard him sound bluesy/soulful. It's always jazzy/cerebral. He's still one of the absolute greatest. Been listening to him a lot lately.

1. T Monk
2. Bill Evans
3. Herbie Hancock
4. Bud Powell
5. Hank Jones
6. Bobby Timmons

[Tal_175]

I asked Barry Harris something about Wes Montgomery's approach to block chords, I can't remember what it was now, he said something along the lines of, Wes Montgomery didn't know what he was doing harmonically, or his harmonic understanding was wrong or something like that. Barry Harris was hard to impress, lol.

[Christian Miller]

Listening to the video, it sounded like BH was just being resentful about Bill. He didn't list any reasons why he didn't like Bill's music itself.

My negatives about Bill's music are it's extremely aesthetically grandiose (though all greats can be), and it lacks soul/blues feel. Although me switching back to piano and listening to what he actually does, it's so technically formidable across all aspects of melody, rhythm, and harmony. An overlooked aspect of him is I really like his time feel. Super accurate.

I don’t know the specifics. I do know that he objected to Oscar Peterson due to his Canadianess.

I think people sometimes take Barry a little too seriously and miss the mischievous sense of humour. As I understand it from Joel, who knew him personally, there always an aspect of performativeness to it too.

He was incredibly purist about what interested him. For him everyone was inferior to Bud Powell in the piano playing stakes.


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[Christian Miller]

People used to sidetrack into ranting about Chick Corea or something and I always thought ‘Barry Harris isn’t here to validate your musical taste, he is here to teach you about the music he is crazy about about and which he knows as much as anyone alive. Why are you wasting our time?’


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[Christian Miller]

I asked Barry Harris something about Wes Montgomery's approach to block chords, I can't remember what it was now, he said something along the lines of, Wes Montgomery didn't know what he was doing harmonically, or he is harmonic understanding was wrong or something like that. Barry Harris was hard to impress, lol.

He also didn’t rate Stitt’s swing feel, said he didn’t have the triplet in his playing.


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[Christian Miller]

Translated from German Wikipedia:

"Four days after his [Bill Evans'] death, a memorial service was held at St. Peter's Church on Lexington Avenue, the traditional place of worship for New York's jazz scene, attended by musicians such as Richie Beirach, Eddie Gomez, Jim Hall, Barry Harris, Jeremy Steig and Warne Marsh, as well as Helen Keane and Nat Hentoff."

This video is repeated over and over but we do not really know the context of the story told by Barry.

Ask Joel. He knew Barry a bit more outside of his workshop persona.


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[pcjazz]

He also didn’t rate Stitt’s swing feel, said he didn’t have the triplet in his playing.

He could be hard on himself too. I remember listening to his recording of All God’s Children Got Rhythm before class one day when Barry came in and asked me to turn it off, if I wanted to hear that tune I should listen to Bud’s version instead. He said he didn’t like to hear his old recordings because they were full of mistakes. I am paraphrasing but that was the gist.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

People used to sidetrack into ranting about Chick Corea or something and I always thought ‘Barry Harris isn’t here to validate your musical taste, he is here to teach you about the music he is crazy about about and which he knows as much as anyone alive. Why are you wasting our time?’


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When Chick Corea hit the scene Barry first thought he might be one to carry on the bebop flame and was disappointed that Chick went his own way. (I'd have to find a certain interview for his exact words.)

[Bobby Timmons]

BH also called Waltz For Debby 'In your own sweet way' in his early 90s clips and then in this clip 25 years or so later lol.

[brent.h]

By "worked into my playing" you mean using 6th/dim in Barry Harris' or Pasquale Grasso's way, then no, I don't use it like that. I don't have the speed or instinct for it. Too focused trying to play my Lester Young and Charlie Christian lines lol.

But I do use 6th/dim to visualize the fretboard better.

I also use diminished shells (on strings 6, 4, 3) to connect my maj6/min6 shell inversions while comping.