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  1. #1

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    Last edited by cheat2win; 08-03-2020 at 08:46 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Well I would say Thornton but it's private and would be expensive. UNT in Denton is great but not too urban.

    Besides, out of state tuition is not unlike in-state private school. California state schools may be your best bet. UCLA? Cal State Fullerton, Northridge or Long Beach? (don't know if they have grad programs though)
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 07-07-2017 at 10:12 PM.

  4. #3

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    For Philly, Temple and U Arts both have good jazz grad programs

  5. #4

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    For sure, check out the University of North Texas... School is top notch, Denton is livable, Dallas/FortWorth is workable.

  6. #5

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    Maybe I missed it but I don't see why you want to go to graduate school, you want a teacher's credentials, you need an advanced degree for X, what is the goal? Seems like the answer to that would help choose the proper school.

  7. #6

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    I would really highly recommend university of new orleans:
    Jazz Studies Concentration | University of New Orleans

    tons of great players in new orleans, lots of opportunities to play gigs live. There's a low cost of living, and the faculty at UNO is outstanding, Steve Masakowski is great.

    I also think Rutgers is great, but my experience is that it's very bound up in the NYC scene. People, on average, go to Rutgers as a way of getting to NYC. So, if you want to avoid NYC, I'd also avoid Rutgers.

    Regarding Mills College, Roscoe Mitchell has sadly been marked for dismissal due to budget cuts, so you should take that into consideration (I live in the bay area, that's how I heard about this):
    Jazz Pioneer Roscoe Mitchell Marked for Dismissal at Mills College | Art Wire | KQED Arts

    Also, Chicago is a great jazz city and Northwestern has a good jazz program. From everything you've said, if I were in your shoes, I would think about school as well as the larger context of what city it's in. From what you've said, you want to be in a place where you'll be able to get gigs with better musicians. So, you need to be in a place where there's gigs and really good musicians that you can hire, and will eventually hopefully hire you.

    You also sound like you don't want to be in a place where there are literally hundreds of other musicians that play at a super high level, and that rules out both Boston and NYC. Everyone struggles to gig in Boston and NYC.

    Regarding Atlanta and Austin, I love both places, but there aren't a ton of jazz venues/gigs in either place. Last I checked, The Elephant Room in Austin is the only place that has jazz with regularity, and Atlanta's only jazz club, Churchill Grounds, recently closed. There is no shortage of amazing players in both places (doesn't David Sanchez live in Atlanta? Russell Gunn also), but there's just not that many places to play.
    Last edited by pcsanwald; 07-07-2017 at 01:58 PM.

  8. #7

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    Have to agree on Atlanta. I love the city and don't know much about the program, but not a town with any type of jazz scene.

  9. #8

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    +1 for DocBop. Why do you want a masters? That seems like it would help in the decision.

    Is it because you find academia a life you are interested in? That might suggest one set of schools. Is it because you want a way of being eligible for student loans and grants for a few more years while you try to build a network and a career? Different set. Because you don't want to face the real world where you will have to acknowledge that your music is destined be a hobby and occasional income supplement? You would like to continue a couple more years with the luxury of being immersed in music and surrounded by musicians? Different schools.

    Grad school isn't like college. You don't just go because it is the next thing on the list.

  10. #9

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    As much as it may pain some to acknowledge, a lot of people go for the grad degree in performance to continue building their professional skills and knowledge, if they assess that they need it/can benefit from it.

    In the end, we only have to answer to ourselves for our choices.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    Maybe I missed it but I don't see why you want to go to graduate school, you want a teacher's credentials, you need an advanced degree for X, what is the goal? Seems like the answer to that would help choose the proper school.
    Another +1 on Doc's questions/points.

    I'm from Southern California, and I know several pros on the academic side who say, "Hey, I want to teach at the college level, and around here you need at least a master's if not a doctorate, even for teaching community college!"

    If one simply wants to "play better," there are less expensive, better ways to do that, IMO.

  12. #11

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    What does a masters degree in jazz studies actually qualify a person to do? Are there some type of actual employment opportunities requiring it?

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    What does a masters degree in jazz studies actually qualify a person to do? Are there some type of actual employment opportunities requiring it?
    College/university positions.

    The head of jazz studies at a nearby state school -- fairly young guy, nice trumpet player! -- has a doctorate in jazz from U Colo Boulder, and his master's in jazz from DePaul. I've asked him about all them fancy degrees, and he rolled his eyes, "That's how I got this gig!"

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy
    College/university positions.

    The head of jazz studies at a nearby state school -- fairly young guy, nice trumpet player! -- has a doctorate in jazz from U Colo Boulder, and his master's in jazz from DePaul. I've asked him about all them fancy degrees, and he rolled his eyes, "That's how I got this gig!"
    Oh, academia... amazing you can teach in college without any degree in education.

  15. #14

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    Well what does a degree in education get you? What job is waiting for a person with that degree? Is there a specialty implied or is it just general? What subject does it qualify a person to teach?

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    What does a masters degree in jazz studies actually qualify a person to do? Are there some type of actual employment opportunities requiring it?
    As we used to joke in college... A degree and twenty-five cents will get you a ride on the bus.

  17. #16

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    Last edited by cheat2win; 08-03-2020 at 08:48 PM.

  18. #17

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    Last edited by cheat2win; 08-03-2020 at 08:48 PM.

  19. #18

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    to teach at uni or college you need to be really into e.g. history or literature or chemistry - and a degree in education ain't getting you anywhere near there

    god save us from teachers whose 'speciality' is teaching

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    As we used to joke in college... A degree and twenty-five cents will get you a ride on the bus.
    Or as Zappa said, "Roll up that degree and smoke it -- it'll really get you out there!"

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groyniad
    god save us from teachers whose 'speciality' is teaching
    This is close to home for me. There's a great Spanish saying that goes, "En casa del herrero,, cuchillo de palo" - which I've seen rendered as "The shoemaker's wife goes barefoot."

    I agree with Groyniad insofar as I believe that zeal for methodology is willful blindness, which leads to an act of theft - doing for others what they can do perfectly well for themselves.

    Even when playing with others, one builds one's skills alone. Likewise training and consolidation. And one who perseveres gets results, without needing others' intervention.

    Obviously (?), there are competent and capable teachers providing valuable coaching and mentoring to people who have already achieved high levels of competence.

    It is also obvious - but perhaps only to me(?) - that the teaching of non-specialists has made a huge difference to the lives of many.

    I'm thinking particularly of the teaching of self-care and stable daily personal and social routines - eg. providing breakfast and doing laundry for children (whose lives are... a lot more complex than bebop...) - and teaching how to organise and articulate ideas.

    Because the experience of being overwhelmed - like a fish out of water (or 'an octopus in a garage', as they say here in Spain) - is not the sole preserve of youth.

    An anthem for the autonomous learner:
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-09-2017 at 10:04 AM. Reason: typos

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    Well what does a degree in education get you? What job is waiting for a person with that degree? Is there a specialty implied or is it just general? What subject does it qualify a person to teach?
    In US, an education degree will qualify you for a license to teach in public school K-12 in most of the 50 states. You need to choose a discipline like history, math, music, art, phys ed, etc. Starting salary is around $50K.

    A PhD in jazz and $18 might qualify you for a fishing license.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    In US, an education degree will qualify you for a license to teach in public school K-12 in most of the 50 states. You need to choose a discipline like history, math, music, art, phys ed, etc. Starting salary is around $50K.

    A PhD in jazz and $18 might qualify you for a fishing license.
    Understood about K-12.

    In college, especially grad school, I think some educational "training" should cut it though. What do you think? In other words, in college there is less need for all that child psychology and more need for a solid curriculum, texts, and lesson plans. Beyond those prerequisites there is the need to hold the student accountable for their own ambition, motivation, work ethic, time management skills, and intellect. They're adults after all. No more time for patty cake.

    In summary I believe that an ideal college instructor or professor (in musical instrument studies) would have the following three credentials:

    1. The ability to play what they teach. They don't have to be a Grammy winner, but they should be excellent, active players.
    2. An undergrad degree in Performance on their instrument.
    3. A masters in Music Ed.

    But since we don't live in an ideal world, credentials 1 and 2 should cut it. For college teaching I think #1 is much more important than #3. And one more thought - jazz guitar ain't exactly medicine, law, science, accounting or finance.
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 07-12-2017 at 12:05 AM.

  24. #23

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    My main observation about music academia is that the number of grads far exceeds the need for college level educators, which I hear many students think is their backup plan when performance career doesn't pan out. There are veteran jazz musicians that struggle to find adequate college level teaching gigs.

  25. #24

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    Yeah, no question about that.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    Understood about K-12.
    Had to look up "K-12" - great term.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    My main observation about music academia is that the number of grads far exceeds the need for college level educators, which I hear many students think is their backup plan when performance career doesn't pan out. There are veteran jazz musicians that struggle to find adequate college level teaching gigs.

    FYI: For those that might not know schools can bring in veteran artists, musicians, and others without degrees or teaching credentials as long as not called teachers, they are instructors. It's a word game, but that's how colleges public and private bring in highly experienced people with no degrees to teach.