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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    Well, ok. Sampling library - like the Garritan or other fine samples. I don't have any of the expensive sampling collections, but I always assumed the composer composes his music as notation and then determines orchestration with attention to pitch range. I misunderstood Reg's comment to be relating to a 'compositional' tool rather than orchestration.


    From the Garritan Orchestra promo:

    "When you have a musical idea, the last thing you want is to spend time creating an instrument section from scratch in order to express it. Instant Orchestra gives you a wide variety of pre-grouped instruments, ready to play. That means when you come up with the perfect theme for your film score, you can capture it as quickly as you can get your hands on your keyboard and play it."

    Of course, all this is a kick to the derriere of live musicians and their job prospects.

    I think you may be under the impression that a modern working professional composer sits at his piano and crafts beautiful pieces of art.....it happens sometimes I'm sure, but the more likely scenario that I've seen my friend in many times.....client X calls him up and says "I need a track by tomorrow with Fat Boy style break beats, Oliver Nelson horns, and Pantera like rhythm guitars.....also throw in a boat load of dub step mixing techniques etc"...His sample library consists primarily of things he played and recorded himself, with the exception of orchestral sounds.

    On the other hand the bigger budget Hollywood type things he's done were recorded with a large orchestra. On stuff like that he's writing with a orchestral sample library for a mock up/client approval/sync to picture. I'm pretty sure all big budget movies and TV still use real orchestras when it is called for.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by djangoles
    I think you may be under the impression that a modern working professional composer sits at his piano and crafts beautiful pieces of art.....it happens sometimes I'm sure, but the more likely scenario that I've seen my friend in many times.....client X calls him up and says "I need a track by tomorrow with Fat Boy style break beats, Oliver Nelson horns, and Pantera like rhythm guitars.....also throw in a boat load of dub step mixing techniques etc"...His sample library consists primarily of things he played and recorded himself, with the exception of orchestral sounds.

    On the other hand the bigger budget Hollywood type things he's done were recorded with a large orchestra. On stuff like that he's writing with a orchestral sample library for a mock up/client approval/sync to picture. I'm pretty sure all big budget movies and TV still use real orchestras when it is called for.
    or around here you get the call from Entertainment Tonight saying I need two minutes of music for a segment on <fill in the blank> has to be uploaded in four hours pays X dollars. Also need ten second edit for a lead in.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    or around here you get the call from Entertainment Tonight saying I need two minutes of music for a segment on <fill in the blank> has to be uploaded in four hours pays X dollars. Also need ten second edit for a lead in.
    exactly.....

    In all honesty my friend makes quite the living doing this stuff....but I don't think he envisioned it to be like this when he was studying Film Scoring

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by djangoles
    exactly.....

    In all honesty my friend makes quite the living doing this stuff....but I don't think he envisioned it to be like this when he was studying Film Scoring
    This is the training ground to eventually get the big orchestration gigs and maybe doing the main score one day.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    This is the training ground to eventually get the big orchestration gigs and maybe doing the main score one day.
    yea I have another friend not as close but know him well enough.....finished Berklee film scoring...then to
    USC Advanced Film scoring studies, then went on to work at Hans Zimmer's commercial division....he's just now starting to score some really big projects and was up for an Emmy last year Outstanding Music for Movie, TV and or Mini Series.

  7. #56

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    If you find that music is your calling don't let nobody tell you to learn law or do business for that is not where your heart lies. You will be a mediocre lawyer or lame businessman struggling to compete in this messed up rat race we live in. Do what was meant for you. Follow what you do best.
    Last edited by smokinguit; 07-23-2014 at 08:24 PM.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokinguit
    If you find that music is your calling don't let nobody tell you to learn law or do business for that is not where your heart lies. You will be a mediocre lawyer or lame businessman struggling to compete in this messed up rat race we live in. Do what was meant for you. Follow what you do best.
    Ehhhhh.....I would say, if you're young enough (high school age), get your 4-8 year professional degree out the way so you will at least have SOMETHING to fall back on, then spend the rest of your time pursuing music. I wish I would have done that-gotten my 6-7 years of pharmacy school out of the way and let part of that $60-120k salary fund my musical endeavors.

  9. #58

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    The problem, as I see it, is the best years for musical development are the younger years. There were opportunities I had I never would have had had I stayed in school. And had I decided to give up four years for college I don't know that I would have been able to reclaim them later. It's a decision and a sacrifice. It certainly was for me. Both my parents had masters degrees. Dad Philosophy BA from Berkeley and double masters in Math and Business Administration from USC. Mom in social work and was a full professor. So I came from a world of academia. But I wasn't interested. For me it was jazz. Mom had a cow, as you can imagine. My father died, but from all I know he would have supported my decision. Or given me a time line compromise.

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    The problem, as I see it, is the best years for musical development are the younger years. There were opportunities I had I never would have had had I stayed in school. And had I decided to give up four years for college I don't know that I would have been able to reclaim them later. It's a decision and a sacrifice. It certainly was for me. Both my parents had masters degrees. Dad Philosophy BA from Berkeley and double masters in Math and Business Administration from USC. Mom in social work and was a full professor. So I came from a world of academia. But I wasn't interested. For me it was jazz. Mom had a cow, as you can imagine. My father died, but from all I know he would have supported my decision. Or given me a time line compromise.
    Same here, born into academia, music, but didn't go to school. I didn't want to be a musician.

  11. #60

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    Hi MangoTango,
    +1 my Grand daughter will be in her 3rd year in September studying
    Music @ Uni ,it has been the making of her, She arranged and performed
    in an updated version of the Mikado,plays trumpet ,Guitar @ Piano and is
    the lead singer with the Uni Big band. Which performs all kinds of music
    as you will know we are immensely proud of her. I started her interest in
    piano with my skills (akin to Les Dawson's send ups.) But she really liked Jazz
    Chord melodies on Guitar.
    I sincerely hope your daughter enjoys Uni and is a great success, it is an
    uplifting journey.



    Kindest regards
    Silverfoxx .... Essex ( not TOWIE)

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverfoxx
    Hi MangoTango,
    +1 my Grand daughter will be in her 3rd year in September studying
    Music @ Uni ,it has been the making of her, She arranged and performed
    in an updated version of the Mikado,plays trumpet ,Guitar @ Piano and is
    the lead singer with the Uni Big band. Which performs all kinds of music
    as you will know we are immensely proud of her. I started her interest in
    piano with my skills (akin to Les Dawson's send ups.) But she really liked Jazz
    Chord melodies on Guitar.
    I sincerely hope your daughter enjoys Uni and is a great success, it is an
    uplifting journey.



    Kindest regards
    Silverfoxx .... Essex ( not TOWIE)
    Hey silverfoxx,

    No, we hold back from TOWIE here as well mate!

    Thanks for your post, nice to hear fromsomeone in the same area and in the same boat.

    To be honest, I think that she's pretty much ready to go now - she's very mature for her age and I'd have no more than the ususal worries about her that any father has. And yes, I think that the whole experience of going away to Uni , meeting and making friends and contacts, and spending all her time doing stuff that she wants to do, and with all those opportunities, is going to be such a valuable and life-changing thing for her to do.

    When we did the open day visits and the tutors always asked "now are there any more questions?", I had to hold back from shouting out "Yes! Where was this course when I needed it 35 years ago??" LOL.

    Cheers, Mangotango

  13. #62

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    One rumor that I heard was that Boston was not a good city to be in if you want to gig as a student, because music teachers from New England Conservatory, Berklee, Boston Conservatory, etc. have all of the good gigs tied up.

    Does anyone know if there is truth to this?

  14. #63

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    I'm gonna need a degree in music if I ever want a job. I'm doing various blue-collar stuff right now but I can't be breaking my back and cutting my hands every day for the rest of my life if I want to pursue my true passion.

    Thing is, I love fusion. LOVE Lee Ritenour, John Scofield, Pat Metheny, etc.
    Can't really get a degree in fusion, AFAIK no such thing exists.

    I'm not THAT into the typical swing, thunk stuff. Sure, from time to time and as part of a repertoire, but not all the time. There's so much boring jazz out there. Seems to me everybody's trying to sound exactly like the masters... what's the point? What's been done has been done and it's been done by the people who did it best...
    I digress.

    Because I live in Norway which is a social democracy, higher education is free and so I can get a degree in essentially whatever I desire. The problem is that my heart doesn't burn for "Bachelor degree in performance, jazz guitar" nor does it for "bachelor in rhythmic music, guitar".

    I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

  15. #64

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    The academic world respects jazz between 1940 and 1965 or so.

    Get a haircut and get a real job.

  16. #65

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    Metheny and Frisell both went to Berkeley and both have strong traditional jazz backgrounds - both built upon what they learned to develop their own sound. Studying jazz doesn't hurt your fusion chops, it expands your horizons.

    In any field you learn what is taught, make it your own, and build upon your education to create skills you can sell.

    Or, you can stay with blue collar jobs ...

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    The academic world respects jazz between 1940 and 1965 or so.

    Get a haircut and get a real job.
    Excuse me, I have very short hair and I work in logistics mon-fri and in church sat-sun. No day is a day off for me, ever since I was 16.

    Anyway if you're serious or not will be set aside but I really, really don't care who listen to what I play or if they listen at all. I just HAVE TO play.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    Metheny and Frisell both went to Berkeley and both have strong traditional jazz backgrounds - both built upon what they learned to develop their own sound. Studying jazz doesn't hurt your fusion chops, it expands your horizons.

    In any field you learn what is taught, make it your own, and build upon your education to create skills you can sell.

    Or, you can stay with blue collar jobs ...
    That is true, but is it worth years of my life, studying full-time something that is not my passion?
    I don't care about making money off of playing, hell, I'd want to be a music teacher.

    I don't hate the blue collar stuff. I like how it's improved my stamina and physical health but I know that deterioration is inevitable in this type of job and as such it is not sustainable for a musician :/
    Last edited by mr quick; 03-28-2016 at 07:43 PM.

  18. #67

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    It's a line from a George Thorogood song.

    Lighten up, Francis.

    That's from a movie.

    Seriously--you wanna major in music--what's the plan after? Teach? Then learn the history. Do the old stuff...it's good for your fusion playing.

    Pat Metheny came up playing Wes solos...with his thumb.

  19. #68

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    2 of your 3 examples have heavy traditional jazz influences - Metheny and Scofield, Ritenour certainly has some in his background too. Back in the 70's most fusion players learned their instrument in jazz clubs playing traditional jazz.

    There is plenty to learn, and hopefully you'll create something new and make a name for yourself.

  20. #69

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    @ mr.b:

    Yeah, I think I'd like to be a music teacher if I worked with music. Music theory and band stuff, I won't get into it because I believe it's specific to Norwegian upper secondary schools.


    That's the thing, though - it's an "if". I don't seem to have a "dream" when it comes to jobs. I don't care if it's a glamour profession or a clerk job just as long as I get to come home to my music. That can't be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    2 of your 3 examples have heavy traditional jazz influences - Metheny and Scofield, Ritenour certainly has some in his background too. Back in the 70's most fusion players learned their instrument in jazz clubs playing traditional jazz.

    What is it you are adverse to in studying traditional jazz?
    A lack of true expression and adherence to "rules", I guess.
    Now that you say it, it does make sense studying jazz, but I'm just not feeling it. I've seen a lot of the students play who are studying at the institute. Granted, extremely talented players on all instruments, but I've never heard a band where I felt the guitar made a valuable contribution. Hell, that can even apply to my old guitar teacher Phil McDermott, who is one of the greatest guitarists I've ever heard.

    I realize I'm rambling somewhat but it's hard to put my feelings into words. That's why I play
    Last edited by mr quick; 03-28-2016 at 07:56 PM.

  21. #70

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    Aren't there programs for being a music teacher in schools? It's what you like, steady work, and a reasonably attainable goal.

  22. #71

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    I think that would require a degree in music + a minor in pedagogy or something along those lines.

  23. #72

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    And higher education is free in your country. Go find the right school, get your degree and start living the life you want.

  24. #73

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    In Hal Crook's excellent book, "Ready, Aim, Improvise!" (highly recommended!) he has a whole section on careers and "life." Essentially, what he says is, "If you can do anything else other than music, do it! If there's nothing else you can do, then go for it."

    I was one of the fortunate few to spend a week with Mick Goodrick at his "summer guitar camp" a few years back; when we first met, he was asking about me, what I do, family, etc. I told him I'm a psychologist, I have a family, and I have a performing jazz quartet. He said, "That's cool -- so you get to have fun with music! Some day I'll get to do that again." Of course, he was half joking, and therefore half serious, too.

    A music career can be hard work, and you're not always playing the kind of music you want to play, and rarely are you getting paid what you deserve. I have a music degree, and I have friends from school who are full time musicians, and I see how tough it can be for them (and they are good!).

    Never stop playing and learning and exploring music, and maybe consider getting a business degree and a good job to pay the bills.

  25. #74

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    Thanks for valuable input all, but I'm really not competent in any field but music. I studied music in HS(HS in Norway is field-specific, I don't know about the US?) and I decided to "ditch"(meaning "barely pass") the non-music subjects and really focus on my development as a guitarist/musician.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marwin Moody
    Thanks for valuable input all, but I'm really not competent in any field but music. I studied music in HS(HS in Norway is field-specific, I don't know about the US?) and I decided to "ditch"(meaning "barely pass") the non-music subjects and really focus on my development as a guitarist/musician.

    Have you ever taught music?

    Are you good at it?

    Will you hate it in 10 years?

    Will it make you hate music in 10 years?


    Just a few questions you should ask yourself. Also, you don't "need" a degree to teach music privately, though it surely is a help. If it's free, thats hard to go wrong (if you were in the US you would have about 100k of lifelong debt to enjoy), but remember teaching is still a JOB, and it's frustrating and downright sucks on days. Just make sure to do it a bit before you jump in blind.

    Best of luck!!!

  27. #76

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    okay, I'm trying to stay off this site for as long as possible, but this topic is an exception. If you love practicing, gigging, scrounging for gigs/opportunities to play, really jump into any musical opportunities come your way (whether you get paid or not) then musician is the path for you. doesn't mean you have to do a music degree but it will help a lot. you also have to be great at networking. get out and hang around the clubs all the time, broaden your tastes to any sort of thriving genre in the area and make friends with lots of musicians, club owners etc. playing all the time is the key but getting out and seeing gigs is good for making connections. Obviously playing alone will not be enough so get into teaching guitar, theory, piano or anything else you can do. go around to the music stores/private tuition schools and make friends with other private instrumental teachers. you're a freelance musician so you've got to find things constantly.

    It's tough and not for me that's why I'm doing an education degree and let me tell you, you become more of a teacher than a musician, you don't have any time to practice or gig or see live music. There's a lot of work involved in terms of learning pedagogy and learning theories and how to actually teach, certainly not for everyone. Definitely want to research teaching before jumping in.

    You have to be persistent, very versatile and very, very good. It helps if you are the best/only guitar player in your area.

  28. #77

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    plus, music degrees vary from uni to uni so there's no point saying old school jazz is favoured, it certainly wasn't where I went, generally there'll be like minded people at every uni, you'll have guys who are real old school, guys who are real modern and guys who are in the middle. It would be best to be in the middle and be able to play with everyone

    remember studying education is a real pain if you're not that into it. do your music degree, see what happens, doesn't mean you can't go back and retrain in another field.
    Last edited by nick1994; 03-29-2016 at 04:18 AM.

  29. #78

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    Ah...Norway...free healthcare, free jazz education and gov't subsidized jazz careers/gigs....what's not to like about democratic socialism....go for it.. You shouldn't be asking advice from anyone outside of Europe.

  30. #79

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    I'm going to try not to come off as too negative here, but it might be tricky

    I've been teaching music since completing my degree in '91 (in the UK). There have been many times when I wish I had studied something else completely and kept music as a hobby. The stresses involved with teaching children and especially children that are perhaps only playing because their friends are or at their parents will, and who never practice, are higher than you'd think! Of course it depends on how you are wired up, but if music means that much to you it can be very difficult to not let it affect you. I had many years where I couldn't even look at a guitar when I came home after work and just couldn't face doing anything for my own enjoyment.
    I am in a slightly better place these days, but it takes real will power to keep work and my own music separate in my head.

    I love music and on those rare days where you have a good run of students it's a great job, but those days are usually rare. Remember the grass is not always greener.

    Good luck in your choice.

  31. #80

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    Gotta know where we've been to know where we're going.
    You may just suprise yourself with how much more you'll enjoy the music when you're surrounded by it in that context. Even though they may not focus on "fusion" much or at all, its the knowlege you want to walk away with, and that doesnt necessarily have to change you're sound you hear in your head for yourself if you dont want it to.

    That being said I understand the dilemma. Study or not to study something you're not sure you'll enjoy.

    Heck does it have to be a bachelor. What about a diploma? Shorter time. You could get a feel for it, and if its for you you can always put credit towards a batchelor.

    Just my thoughts.

  32. #81

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    I started off college with a major in jazz performance on guitar.

    a degree in jazz performance and a gun will get you a cup of coffee in most places

    ...but you better have the gun

    then I changed majors to Music Theory with the idea of teaching college

    then I discovered that people who study theory can't play

    so I joined the Navy and shipped out to the Pacific. Lived on an island, surfed all day and fixed planes at night

    the papayas were fantastic

  33. #82

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    Yeah, if you lived in the US, I'd agree with everyone else -- get an accounting degree or whatever, study the hell out of music on the side.

    But Norway is a completely different situation... completely different education situation, completely different music scene, completely different career options for musicians. Almost makes me want to move out there. And I doubt many of us here have the knowledge or experience to guide you.

    I would visit a couple different music schools, get a feel for their curriculum, and talk to some of their alumni. Find people who have done what you want to do. I may not know that much about Norway's jazz education scene, but I do know that it's definitely not a bebop-factory. You should be able to get pretty close to what you want.

    Good luck.

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marwin Moody
    Thanks for valuable input all, but I'm really not competent in any field but music. I studied music in HS(HS in Norway is field-specific, I don't know about the US?) and I decided to "ditch"(meaning "barely pass") the non-music subjects and really focus on my development as a guitarist/musician.
    In the US, specialization typically comes later than in European education systems. High school degrees are general -- even if you go to a "specialized" high school of some sort, you're still on track to enter pretty much any sort of university and major in whatever is on offer there. Then once you're out of college (or even grad school) it's very common in the US to wind up in a profession that has no obvious connection to what you studied. If you're looking for advice on what programs to apply to in order to have a music career in Norway, I think you're probably best off asking a Norwegian. US experiences would probably not be terribly applicable.

    John

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    In the US, specialization typically comes later than in European education systems. High school degrees are general -- even if you go to a "specialized" high school of some sort, you're still on track to enter pretty much any sort of university and major in whatever is on offer there. Then once you're out of college (or even grad school) it's very common in the US to wind up in a profession that has no obvious connection to what you studied. If you're looking for advice on what programs to apply to in order to have a music career in Norway, I think you're probably best off asking a Norwegian. US experiences would probably not be terribly applicable.

    John
    My parents were classical music performance all the way with their education. Dad had a doctorate but he started teaching 'world music' right away. That was ages ago. He was into theory behind Indian Classical Music. It's music but has little to do with western classical music.
    How bout the good old day's when rock musicians in the UK started in art school? It makes for a more interesting world when people can think outside the box. Still, the US is the birthplace of jazz. Those outside the US will have a different perspective. Like you say, ask a Norwegian.
    Don't ask me. I don't have a worthwhile opinion.
    Let's face it, people in the US generally hate jazz. Why don't they hate today's pop more? That's something worth hating.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 03-29-2016 at 04:44 PM.

  36. #85

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    Thanks for the answers. I'll ask around the different places and go to their concerts if possible
    My neighbor teaches at the Institute of Music and Dance in Stavanger which only houses jazz and classical. The guitar professor is an american, Wayne Brasel, a familiar name to anyone?

  37. #86

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    Not quite on point but just wanted to say my favourite jazz sax player is the great Norwegian Jan Garbarek. Modern and unique sound, great improviser, awesome and distinctive technique. Have you heard him? Definitely a departure from the traditional old school players. He has moved jazz forward and done something with it, which is what needs to happen in my book.

  38. #87

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    IMO this is dating decision, not a marriage decision.

    Try it out for a year.

    Also, there are other benefits besides the coursework. You'll meet kindred spirits and you'll get your behind kicked.

    Its good to learn how you compare in terms of talent, work ethic, and passion for the art.

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marwin Moody
    The guitar professor is an american, Wayne Brasel, a familiar name to anyone?

    Yep, I kinda new Wayne a long, long time ago.

    When I was in high school Wayne Brasel & John Patitucci played in a band with a friend's older brother, after school we occasionally watched them practice. A few years later Wayne sat in on my regular Wednesday & Thursday night gig (back when I was in college and attending Dick Grove School of Music on summer vacation). Wayne was an L.A. session player at the time and he was well respected among non-guitarists as the guy who didn't overplay on guitar. Listening to Wayne in an ensemble was really something as he plays with an incredible sense of the music and ensemble - there's no ego to his playing, no over playing, no under playing ... Wayne plays exactly what the song needs.

    Wayne and John Patitucci had a couple projects, I saw them a couple times right as Patitucci was breaking-out as a solo artist. Wayne's style at the time combined jazz and rock and he also played nylon stringed guitars with these fusion projects.

    Those nights he sat in were inspiring as he fit so well, and with no rehearsal - again, he plays what's needed (and he told me to take the solos!). I ran into Wayne a few times after and he remembered me and was always extremely nice.

    Marwin, you might have found the right teacher as Wayne has a diverse background which includes fusion.

    Here's his site:

    Wayne Brasel | guitarist | Home
    Last edited by MaxTwang; 03-29-2016 at 07:57 PM.

  40. #89

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    honestly, i would be wary of just going into a degree just to "try it out" for a year. I seen it a lot when i did my music degree but that was just a waste of a year. I'm pretty sure it's been made clear what studying music at university is like, from that you should think whether it's for you or not.

    do you even know what you want out of a music degree? do you want to make contacts, join bands, make friends, learn how to write, arrange, improvise or just get better? no reason why you can't do all those things just make sure you know what you want out of it and how much work you're willing to put in.

    best bet is to find other people who are already in the course and just ask them, no point coming here, a lot of people here haven't been to uni in years (or at all), plus you live in a different country so it's a different environment altogether.
    Last edited by nick1994; 03-30-2016 at 03:18 AM.

  41. #90

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    Study Jazz Performance at home and then come to Boston and study Contemporary Improv at New England Conservatory. You'll only rub shoulders with Jerry Bergonzi, among others.

    If you want to walk three blocks down Massachsetts Ave from NEC, you will be at Berklee College of Music where you have to beat the fusion kids back with a stick in order to get into the Starbucks ;-)

    If you've made it that far, get on the orange line and come on over for dinner ;-)

    -Chris

  42. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by stratcat
    the stresses involved with teaching children and especially children that are perhaps only playing because their friends are or at their parents will, and who never practice, are higher than you'd think!
    I had many years where i couldn't even look at a guitar when i came home after work and just couldn't face doing anything for my own enjoyment.
    THIS is exactly how I felt for 5 years in the early 80s.

  43. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by HCarlH
    THIS is exactly how I felt for 5 years in the early 80s.
    It's a nightmare isn't it. I'm getting so much better at dealing with it, but some days it's tough.
    Glad to see you have come out the other side!

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    Metheny and Frisell both went to Berkeley and both have strong traditional jazz backgrounds - both built upon what they learned to develop their own sound. Studying jazz doesn't hurt your fusion chops, it expands your horizons.
    Yup, but Frisell has said he had the guitar stuff "figured out" before he went to Berklee. He mainly studied composition...

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by morekiller
    Yup, but Frisell has said he had the guitar stuff "figured out" before he went to Berklee. He mainly studied composition...
    Luckily for us Frisell is still figuring out the guitar stuff and Frisell is still studying composition

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Ah...Norway...free healthcare, free jazz education and gov't subsidized jazz careers/gigs....what's not to like about democratic socialism....go for it.. You shouldn't be asking advice from anyone outside of Europe.
    The subsidized jazz careers/gigs don't really do much good for the jazz scene in this little country. It's probably why jazz has no audience here. Simply due to weird music. The jazz clubs are also subsidized since they have no visitors. It's a bit pathetic. And a waste of money. And it's not fair that some weird guy gives out a bunch of money to some weird musicians that he happens to like.

    Free education is a term with modifications. Education is never really free. Most people getting an education in Norway end up with a pretty fat student loan after all. For instance, the cost of living (especially in Oslo) is beyond reasonable here. You still have to pay a semester fee to whatever school you choose. Books are expensive. And Norwegian students like to party every weekend and blow an amount equal to approximately $500 on a saturday night. In addition, Norwegians are lazy and rude. So there...

  47. #96

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    'Education' is free for a field you will never use, so you get student loans to blow $500 partying every Saturday night?

    Silly me, I racked up student loans for tuition. And studied Saturday night.

  48. #97

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    Surely the education is paid for through taxation? So it isn't free, merely free at the point of access.

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by stratcat
    It's a nightmare isn't it. I'm getting so much better at dealing with it, but some days it's tough.
    Glad to see you have come out the other side!
    Once I quit teaching, guitar became fun again.

    I have a friend who teaches for a living and says many of the kids aren't that into it, don't actively listen to much music, and couldn't name any guitar players they like.

    He also says the younger kids don't want anything to do with live music.

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by HCarlH
    I have a friend who teaches for a living and says many of the kids aren't that into it, don't actively listen to much music, and couldn't name any guitar players they like.

    He also says the younger kids don't want anything to do with live music.
    Sadly, that is pretty much my experience too.

  51. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by stratcat
    Surely the education is paid for through taxation? So it isn't free, merely free at the point of access.
    Yes, but it's highly preferable imo. I pay 10-24% in taxes. That's not much imo. Equal opportunity and so on

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    'Education' is free for a field you will never use, so you get student loans to blow $500 partying every Saturday night?

    Silly me, I racked up student loans for tuition. And studied Saturday night.
    Cynicism is quick to take hold of people. If there aren't gigs here, go somewhere else. It's not about the gigs nor is it about the money (to me). I will concede that the jazz scene is pretty dead but that's at the fault of capitalism in music/pop music. I digress.
    I'm not one to spend $500 on a single evening, nor have I ever talked to anyone who has. I'm sure it happens but it's not mainstream, ESPECIALLY not among music students.

    the semester fee is $50...