How Insensitive

[AllanAllen]

Does this C#°7 mean m7b5? The A natural in the melody and the 7 make me think it’s a m7b5 notated poorly.

[AllanAllen]

Nevermind. Bbb is A.

[Christian Miller]

Does this C#°7 mean m7b5? The A natural in the melody and the 7 make me think it’s a m7b5 notated poorly.

It’s a C#o7addb13. Pretty common chord actually, usually the b13 is a suspension from the previous chord (usually the fifth of a minor a half step higher.) See last 8 of Tea for Two, All the Things You Are etc, but those cases the note resolves down a step. Here it remains as an embellished pedal tone through the first four chords finally moving down to the G decisively on the G7/B.

Ive noticed in most charts additional notes in dim chords aren’t indicated in the chord symbol. There’s probably a reason for this, not sure what it is though. Maybe just ease of reading… it’s why it’s always good to look at the melody, so nice one.

[jorgemg1984]

Or, if you wanna look at what it "really" is - it's an A7b9/C#, but the melody being A (1). So put the b9 an octave below and it will give you that nice maj7 sound in your voicing... (say Bb C# E A). Diminished chords tend to be dominant chords in disguise.

This tune is actually inspired by Chopin's prelude in E minor.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

It’s a C#o7addb13.

Interesting! I’ve always thought of it as an inverted A7 with the root in the melody above the rest of the chord. When I play it solo, I often add a B and Bb to it to resolve to A and tie the melody to the next chord (Cm6).

[ragman1]

Really what the song is doing (in D minor) is going

Dm - A7 - Cm - G7

But it's played as

Dm9 - A7b9 - Cm6 - G7

To get the descending bass line from D to Bb that becomes

Dm9 - A7b9/C# - Cm6 - G7/B
BbM7 -

But there's no root on the A7b9/C# so it's fingered the same as a C#o:

x4535x

hence the confusion. But the melody note is A. That's why it works.

(If it was taken as an A9, and therefore played as C#m7b5, it doesn't sound right. If you play/sing it you'll hear that).

[bluenote61]

I see here the same chord like the 2nd chord used in Corcovado:
Here

9 x 8 9 10 x

You may give that chord multiple names. It sounds nice with eyery name.

[fep]

This is a good one to hear the bass clearly. Different key starting in Am. Bass notes | A E | A E | G# E | G# E | . In Dm that transposes to | D A | D A | C# A | C# A | . Because that bass line sounds good, I'm going with the second chord being A7b9/C# (in the key of Dm).

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

But there's no root on the A7b9/C#

Actually, there is a root - it's the melody note. That's why I look at the chord as an inversion of A7. The 3rd is the lowest note in the chord, and it's in the descending bass line. with the 7th above it and the root A on top, it's a lovely voicing. For more texture and a moving line that complements the bass line, I add a B to it in the 3rd bar (which adds a 9th to the inversion) and drop it to a Bb in the 4th bar. The flat 9 flows / resolves into the Cm6 of the 5th bar.

[Victor Saumarez]

I think the A melody works fine over a C#dim, and it doesn't need to be in the chord IMHO. Playing chord melody, I use a Gb7#9/C#, which just adds the melody note but the harmony is essentially the same.

[Christian Miller]

Dominant shmoninant. It’s a lamento with chromatic inner voice leading. :-)

In seriousness the number of tunes that stay on the 5 of the key (A in this case) while the bass goes down in half steps is crazy. The chords can vary quite a bit, but this is a common formula in composition. The second chord is often A7/C# in fact, or Dm(maj7) depending on how you invert it

[Christian Miller]

Interesting! I’ve always thought of it as an inverted A7 with the root in the melody above the rest of the chord. When I play it solo, I often add a B and Bb to it to resolve to A and tie the melody to the next chord (Cm6).

Yeah I mean that works too. Hotel California innit (well that goes to major in bar 3, but same sort of thing)

tbh I tend not to see dims that resolve down a half step as Dominant function chords so much. Plus hanging out in the eighteenth century had made me allergic to the concept of inversions and chord roots… but not invertible counterpoint… go figure lol

Anyway the most important compositional elements here is the melody and the bass line.

Soloing wise, I would play C7 down to the C# (3rd of A7b9) so … yeah?

[ragman1]

Actually, there is a root - it's the melody note.

I know, I said that.

But there's no root on the A7b9/C# so it's fingered the same as a C#o:

x4535x

hence the confusion. But the melody note is A. That's why it works.

Bound to if the voicing is a rootless A7b9 (not really a diminished chord).

[fep]

The root is in the A7b9/C#, the bass player plays the root (C# A| C# A|) and it's in the melody.

[Christian Miller]

I think it depends what you want to see in a chart. I’m easy. But I do think you very often see this note on what is ostensibly a biiio7 chord…

for me, identifying the chord as an A7b9/C# is a bit confusing from a voicing perspective seeing as one would usually expect to see the b9 as an upper extension of the chord rather than hanging out in the middle. There’s part of my primitive brain that expects a Bb on top of that bastard rather than in the middle.

inversions of extended chords tend to be a bit … Lage Lund? So we can permutate, say, x 12 11 12 11 x but that’s not a conventional harmonic operation.

Just call it a C#o7 and let the melody do its thing. If you are used to seeing a dim in that position in the key, a possible A on top shouldn’t be surprising. As I say loads of standards do that.

You do see A13b9 6 x 5 6 7 c written as A13b9 in Gypsy jazz charts, but the bass often plays A here.

I mean a lot of people don’t know what to do with a dim so maybe it helps to see a dom7 chord.

In terms of soloing, I do tend to think A7 or maybe Dmmaj7.

In practice, chord symbols are far from perfect for specifying exact voicings and dim chords particularly get the short straw. Ethan Iverson blames Bill Evans, but tbf he does that for most things.

[setemupjoe]

As Christian stated, this color note is very common on diminished chords. Barry Harris would call this a borrowed note.

Here's a great example of it from the first section on Memories of You. Yes, they are also secondary dominants but one shouldn't negate the beauty of just seeing them as diminished chords. Also it opens up diminished scale ideas as well.

[rpjazzguitar]

Almir Chediak produced many books of Brazilian songs for which he reportedly obtained the composer's own chord voicings shown on grids. There is also a lead sheet in standard notation.

This one has Bm7 x2x232 (original key?)
F#7/A# 6x465x
Am6 (apparently 5x455x, but the chord grid is for an Am7 so it looks like a typo)
E7/G# 4x243x
G6
Cmaj7 x32000
and C#m7b5 x42000
The rest are straightforward except for an Em7(9) played xx2032.

Back in the RB key ...

For comping I like x5355x to x4535 to D7/C (maybe with a b9) to G7/B x2303x and let the melody, played by somebody else, float over it.

[fep]

C#dim7 for the piano and guitar, but A7b9/C# on the chart for the bass player?

[Christian Miller]

C#dim7 for the piano and guitar, but A7b9/C# on the chart for the bass player?

or how about a C#? :-P

[mjo]

Does this C#°7 mean m7b5? The A natural in the melody and the 7 make me think it’s a m7b5 notated poorly.

Can I revive an old thread ?
I want a functional analysis on this tune. It's part of my practice, now to see these tunes as functional "blocks / sections". I have:
D minor = i
C# dim = V of D, as well as V of the next chord
C minor = i *EDIT = ii
G9/B = V of C, as well as V of the next chord
Bb and Ed are I - IV
..then I have ii-V-i. then the Dd is dominant to the next chord = C minor
- I'll stop there ...

My questions are:
1) do you think this type of knowledge / recognition is useful ?
2) what do you think of my analysis ? ...tell me if I'm "out to lunch", I'm a bit unsure myself

Thanks for any time you want to take on this
-cheers,
Mike

[AllanAllen]

I don’t understand how any C# is a V of D.

[ragman1]

I don’t understand how any C# is a V of D

It isn't. A is the V of D.

What most people want to know is why the C#o in Insensitive isn't a C#m7b5 (which would be a rootless A9). I'll show you.

Play Dm to A7 and it sounds good. Play Dm to C#m7b5 (A9) and it doesn't. Because we're in D minor, not D major. C#m7b5 belongs to D major. The right harmony for D minor is a Vb9.

So play Dm to A7b9. Much better. But a 7b9 is like a diminished chord, right?

So play Dm to C#o. Bingo, perfect :-)


(As C#m7b5 can be considered as a rootless A9 in D major, so C#o can be thought of as a rootless A7b9 for D minor)

[Christian Miller]

Despite my interminable ramblings above, the A triad is a great choice for C#o7/Dbo7. Add b9 to it if you want a bit of colour but don’t want to much of that ‘now it’s a diminished seventh’ vibe.

So generalised, play VII on biiio7. For example

G/B Bbo7 Am7 D7b9

play
G F# Am etc

The thing that you really should practice for insenatez is the actually the link from A7b9/C#o7 to Cm6 - this is probably less familiar than a move to Dm obviously and if you can navigate that elegantly you will sound much better on the tune.

It’s also something that would be useful when soloing on other tunes with a biiio7 iim7 move (there’s loads.)

I would start by focussing on how the A triad moves to Cm and build up from there.

And then the money move - G7/B to Bbmaj7. That’s the ‘magic’ one to me. Anyone know any other tunes that have that?

[Victor Saumarez]

Another way to look at this is to reference the melody. The message is less is more. Since you have two bars of each chord, played as a slow tempo, the temptation is to double up and play through the changes. However, the changes are playing through the melody, which is quite static. So, you could use those same notes, perheps embellish a little and explore more the spaces between the notes. This will build up to, or lead nicely into the harmony that follows, which you can then explore more rigorously, or stay with the same.

Some may argue the composers of these Bossas didn't intend bebop lines to rip through them. For one, it's too easy, and two, it's not always appropriate. I used to rip through this and got called out for 'how insensitive' I was playing. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it is an alternative approach worth exploring. Check out Pat Martino's interpretation.

[rpjazzguitar]

Almir Chediak did a series of books, reportedly working with the composers to get their changes.

Insensatiz is in Vol III of the Bossa Nova series. The tune is in the key of Bm, but I transpose here to Dm.

Dm7 goes to A7/C#.

The chord voicings are presented in grids as x5x565 to 9x798x

In case the rest is of interest, in the original key it's Bm7 F#7A# Am6 E7/G# G6 Cmaj7 C#m7b5 F#7b9b13 Bminmaj7 D7/A Abdim Gmaj7 Em7 Bm7 D7/A C#7/G# Em6/G F#7b13 Bm7.

As a wild guess, I'd suggest that the RB version comes from a Stan Getz recording, not the composer's original.

Most of the voicings are conventional except maybe x42000, xx4032 and x2x332.

One final point. The C#dim with an A on top is playable, sort of, as 6x5655. That's a familiar chord grip to Bossa Nova players, usually, I think, named as a Bbdim7(maj7), but, in this case, the bass has a C#.