Stardust

**scout** · 09-08-2022, 09:00 PM

G'day all,
Stardust is such a beautiful song and I'd dearly love to play and sing it.
There are many settings of this song on the internet and as a Guitar player somewhere around the "intermediate/not too bad" level,I'm struggling with the tune.
Would anyone have a user friendly version of Stardust at hand ? Not so much basic chords in country corner,but a nice setting that does this beautiful song justice.
Thanks friends .. Charlie ..

**Jimmy Smith** · 09-09-2022, 04:06 AM

It's kind of a complex tune. However, if you're going to sing and play it, can't you just play the chords slowly and handle the melody with your voice?

Or do you want to go more in depth with the guitar? I often simplify changes because it's tough trying to run complex lead sheet arrangements on organ on short notice for the virtual jams. Just pull out excess changes and insert standard changes that you're familiar with and that agree with the melody.

**scout** · 09-09-2022, 04:39 AM

" It's kind of a complex tune " .. you've got that one right !!
Thanks for your response Jimmy.The setting that I have is one out out of the '557 Jazz Standards' collection and there's a lot to it,lots of new chords that I'm not familiar with ... and it's hard going..I'm hoping for something a wee bit more simple.
I'll post this version here tomorrow as I have to go out now.
Thanks again Jimmy.

**grahambop** · 09-09-2022, 05:01 AM

Here’s a version I did using that 557 standards thing. Don’t know if it’s too complicated, but I attach a PDF I did of the chords used. (It was done for a Barry Harris thread but you can ignore the BH references if you like).

**scout** · 09-09-2022, 05:29 AM

That's beautiful playing there Grahame and I thank you for the PDF.
Your skill level is way above mine,but I've saved the PDF and will live with it for a while.
Many thanks to you ..

**ragman1** · 09-09-2022, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by scout

G'day all,
Stardust is such a beautiful song and I'd dearly love to play and sing it.
There are many settings of this song on the internet and as a Guitar player somewhere around the "intermediate/not too bad" level,I'm struggling with the tune.
Would anyone have a user friendly version of Stardust at hand ? Not so much basic chords in country corner,but a nice setting that does this beautiful song justice.
Thanks friends .. Charlie ..

Not clear, do you want to play it solo or just play it behind your singing? Or both?

**AllanAllen** · 09-09-2022, 09:00 AM

Willie Nelson?

**Marinero** · 09-09-2022, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

Here’s a version I did using that 557 standards thing. Don’t know if it’s too complicated, but I attach a PDF I did of the chords used. (It was done for a Barry Harris thread but you can ignore the BH references if you like).

Wonderful tone, G, and I especially liked your pacing in the intro up to :56. The pdf will go in my ever-mounting pile of goodies for later perusal.
Marinero

**Bop Head** · 09-09-2022, 10:32 AM

I am just looking through my fake book collection as this is one of the tunes I want to learn soon as well. I do not find it a too complex song but the 557 version looks really overwhelming.

If you do not know it already, my goto page for the basic structure is Ralph Patt’s vanilla book page, here Star Dust looks much clearer. (Where plain triads are written extend with 6ths or major 7ths.)

Stardust

Compare the two versions and try to understand the substitutions used. I would take the 557 version and first throw away all the fancy extensions and write down those changes with the basic seventh chords which makes things clearer also.

**Bop Head** · 09-09-2022, 10:43 AM

Sometimes the song seems to be played in Db also instead of C like on this Japanese website.

**Marinero** · 09-09-2022, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Bop Head

I am just looking through my fake book collection as this is one of the tunes I want to learn soon as well. I do not find it a too complex song but the 557 version looks really overwhelming.

If you do not know it already, my goto page for the basic structure is Ralph Patt’s vanilla book page, here Star Dust looks much clearer. (Where plain triads are written extend with 6ths or major 7ths.)

Stardust

Compare the two versions and try to understand the substitutions used. I would take the 557 version and first throw away all the fancy extensions and write down those changes with the basic seventh chords which makes things clearer also.

Hi, B,
My old fake book , also, used the simple progressions. The disadvantage is that if you only use those chords, your accompaniment would be too sparse and dull to be interesting. However, the advantage, for some players, is that they can use their creativity to embellish this skeletal framework in their own personal voice. I'm almost finished with a rewrite of "My Funny Valentine" which I've reworked from an old cheat sheet from the 60's.
Marinero

**Bop Head** · 09-09-2022, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Marinero

Hi, B,
My old fake book , also, used the simple progressions. The disadvantage is that if you only use those chords, your accompaniment would be too sparse and dull to be interesting. However, the advantage, for some players, is that they can use their creativity to embellish this skeletal framework in their own personal voice. I'm almost finished with a rewrite of "My Funny Valentine" which I've reworked from an old cheat sheet from the 60's.
Marinero

Hi M,

I have been too lazy for learning tunes and practising scales and technique for around 30 years but my occupation with jazz harmony and theory lasts for that time now so I have developed quite good ears for hearing changes and substitutions. Discovering Barry Harris’ teachings has rounded things off. Now for about three years I have started to really work on technique, chord inversions and above all learning tunes (recently by ear only). Now the years before really start to pay off.

For me it is at least half of the fun working on my own substitutions and passing chords from simpler changes.

Bop Head

**Bop Head** · 09-09-2022, 12:19 PM

This is from the “Colorado Cook Book”

Stardust-stardust_colorado-jpg

**Bop Head** · 09-09-2022, 12:52 PM

Just found Carmichael’s original manuscript online

**pcjazz** · 09-09-2022, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bop Head

This is from the “Colorado Cook Book”

Horn players like it in (concert) Db, guitarists mostly in C or D (the original key). Vocalists? Wherever.

**sgcim** · 09-09-2022, 03:23 PM

I was just reading a book about Paul Simon hiring his father and Bucky Pizzarelli to play some 50s rock song at a recording session when PS was just starting out.
PS didn't know how to tell them how to play it (he couldn't use notation back then), so they had to can it.
The author asked Bucky what tune it was, and Bucky said, "I don't remember, but it definitely wasn't "Stardust".

**scout** · 09-09-2022, 07:19 PM

Thanks Ragman,to clear things up,yes,I'd just like to play it behind my singing..
People here have been really helpful ,with 3 new settings for me to try ...I'm super grateful.

**scout** · 09-09-2022, 07:25 PM

Thanks in a BIG way to you all for your help with Stardust ... nice people here at this great web-site

**mr. beaumont** · 09-09-2022, 09:38 PM

Sits very nice in G, a la Willie.

**scout** · 09-09-2022, 09:44 PM

Words of wisdom right there Ragman ..much appreciated mate, all of it makes sense to me and will be taken on board.
When I say settings,I guess I mean versions.

**ragman1** · 09-09-2022, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by scout

Thanks Ragman,to clear things up,yes,I'd just like to play it behind my singing..
People here have been really helpful ,with 3 new settings for me to try ...I'm super grateful.

Well, you realise there's little point in playing all those rapid and complex chord changes if you're going to sing? You want an accompaniment, not a solo. Obviously you want something more than 'vanilla' chords (so it sounds effective) but not much more than that.

By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by settings. Do you know which key suits your voice for this tune? You'd be crazy to try playing it in, say, Db rather than C or D!

The lead sheets one can find everywhere aren't necessarily a good guide for self-accompaniment, they're really meant for either solo or group arrangements. They will certainly give you the chords, more or less, and you can modify them, but you have to know what you're doing.

I'll tell you one thing. If you're going to sing that's what people will listen to. They won't be terribly concerned with fancy guitar work. And the more complex the guitar work the more it will diminish the energy you have to give to the singing. So the guitar stuff has to be simple enough not to distract you, and that's one of the main difficulties in self-accompaniment. In fact, it often amounts to playing without looking or even thinking about it much, you see the point.

Sorry, not trying to be a wet blanket but all this is very true. I know, I've been there and done it!

**ragman1** · 09-09-2022, 10:39 PM

Sorry, my post has reappeared ahead of your reply because I added to it slightly. I didn't see your reply when I was changing it. But I'm glad you get the idea.

What key do you sing it in? As Jeff pointed out, Willie does it in G but that may not be right for you.

By the way, beware You Tube. Nearly all the one-person guitar/vocal versions there are embarrassingly, cringingly awful. Don't copy them!

**Bop Head** · 09-10-2022, 02:59 AM

Here is a version by French musician and jazz researcher Philippe Baudoin. He has written two fake books, one with the melodies and one with “grilles harmoniques” (harmonic grids), a chords only French specialty.

I recommend both highly as the changes most of the time are much better than e.g. the original Real Books still used by many. My personal theory is that this comes maybe from the fact that many US musicians moved to Paris at least for some time after WWII (many of them African-Americans who liked it to be respected in Europe as artists and human beings) and that the French musicians learned the songs directly from them.

Here is the melody (note that Baudoin writes the chords below the staves which is a bit unusual). In his melody fake book he also rarely writes the lyrics like in this example.
Stardust-baudoin_stardust_melody-png

And this is the “grille”. Here he notes possible variants as well as versions fir recommended listening on the right.
Stardust-baudoin_stardust_grille-png

If you have problems reading the grid feel free to ask. There is a arrow which is a little hard to see in the image from the first line of the chorus to the third which means the chords from the first line are repeated until a new chord is introduced.

**scout** · 09-10-2022, 04:08 AM

I haven't got to the point where I'm actually trying to sing it yet

,so I need to get a version that's OK for my Guitar skills to handle.
There's so many versions of the song ,some leaving out the vocal intro,I need to pick one.
Eb,Bb,Em and C seem to be OK for me.
Songs that are going pretty well are The way you Look Tonight,Miss Otis Regrets in Eb .. All of Me in C .. Nature Boy in Em ..I Can't believe that you're in love with Me in Bb.
A Swing version of When I grow too old to Dream in F
Maybe these songs aren't really Jazz ? Maybe I'm at the wrong web site ?... I hope I'm not being a pest.

**Bop Head** · 09-10-2022, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by scout

I haven't got to the point where I'm actually trying to sing it yet

,so I need to get a version that's OK for my Guitar skills to handle.
There's so many versions of the song ,some leaving out the vocal intro,I need to pick one.
Eb,Bb,Em and C seem to be OK for me.
Songs that are going pretty well are The way you Look Tonight,Miss Otis Regrets in Eb .. All of Me in C .. Nature Boy in Em ..I Can't believe that you're in love with Me in Bb.
A Swing version of When I grow too old to Dream in F
Maybe these songs aren't really Jazz ? Maybe I'm at the wrong web site ?... I hope I'm not being a pest.

Use basic shell voicings: root + third + seventh (or sixth)

* roots on strings 5 or 6

* thirds and sevenths on strings 3 and 4