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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    I think everyone has to find their own way of doing stuff...
    This! Kenny Burrell refers to other player's "systems". We all have to find a system that works for us and create a voice that let's the guitar sound like what we hear in our head. Letting your fingers do the walking isn't good jazz, it is just "noodling" You need to play what you hear.

    My jazz voice sounds the same whether I play swing, bop or Gypsy jazz. I talked to Bireli Lagrene about this a couple of years ago and he and I both agreed that what we both have done is incorporated vocabulary from different styles of jazz to create our own personal "stew". Bireli's stew is way more advanced than mine in every way, of that I am certain.

    Like DB, I have a different vocabulary and phrasing for rock/blues playing. That said, there is some crossover between the two styles in my playing.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    This! Kenny Burrell refers to other player's "systems". We all have to find a system that works for us and create a voice that let's the guitar sound like what we hear in our head. Letting your fingers do the walking isn't good jazz, it is just "noodling" You need to play what you hear.

    My jazz voice sounds the same whether I play swing, bop or Gypsy jazz. I talked to Bireli Lagrene about this a couple of years ago and he and I both agreed that what we both have done is incorporated vocabulary from different styles of jazz to create our own personal "stew". Bireli's stew is way more advanced than mine in every way, of that I am certain.

    Like DB, I have a different vocabulary and phrasing for rock/blues playing. That said, there is some crossover between the two styles in my playing.
    I think that's the fun

    I had a big crisis about 8 years ago when I realised my Gypsy Jazz playing was completely disconnected from my modern playing. I think some people would like that, but not me.

    One thing I've worked towards is a way of playing the gig (very important) without pastiching this or that player. I've found this to difficult in some ways, not least because of muscle memory; if you pick up a certain guitar you play a certain way...

    Anyway, personal taste is a really important part of it. I can't fault anyone's taste because it's all relative. You could obviously critique someone's execution as a teacher for instance, but I see aesthetic/style as being very subjective.

    I can only talk about what I want to do musically, and on the other hand try and advise say students based on what they are trying to work towards, which might be very different to where I'm going.

  4. #28

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    PRACTICE FOR HOURS AND PLAY GIGs - THIS IS A RECIPE.

  5. #29

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    So I’m not thinking here of anything you are doing, which always sounds great, but rather what I’ve been interested in as a player, and this question cuts to the core of it.
    No worries, I never took it as criticism, just did not understand completely what you were saying.

    As with most things I’m a Peter Bernstein fan boy and i just like his approach which is very much not to ‘throw notes on chords’ as he put it - which is my natural tendency - but instead focus on resources from the tunes melody. I find this a good counter balance for a few years of basically doing Barry Harris stuff which gave me some facility on bop tunes, but specifically in the Bossa rep I never felt as if my approach at that time sounded good on tunes like Inutil Paisagem, Insensatez etc when I played them live. Paradoxically I find working from the melody helps me improvise more freely than just doing the usual process. I play stuff I’d never play by ‘default.’
    Love Peter Bernstein (of course, how can you not?). Very strong concept (my personal word for style or system etc.). Very personal and unique too.

    I used to be more worried that by changing my process, I might lose my identity as a player in some way, but I find that my voice will come out whether I like it or not haha. I actually think style/voice/identity is one of those things that you can’t change. It just is. Bruce Forman had a good quote about that.
    I never changed my concept much. From the beginning it was always the bebop thing. The "Wave" video I posted above is over 15 years ago and I still play it like that, probably with some more space and a few new sounds but not THAT different. You are what you is I guess ... Also, there is not much need for me to sound state of the art with totally hip and advanced melodic stuff because I only play for fun and most people seem to like what I do. I full well realize that my playing is deeply rooted in the past rather than the present or future and that it's all been done earlier. But as a non pro, I can afford that attitude. I do take what I do very seriously though. For me, the fun is in trying to get as good as it gets, given the circumstances (very old starter in jazz, hobby player, etc.) If I'd suck at jazz guitar all of a sudden, I'd stop in a heartbeat. So I am not without ambition. But I am happy enough with my concept as it is ... The level of jazz guitar in my country is very, very high (Jesse van Ruller, Martijn van Iterson, Reinier Baas, Stochelo and Jimmy Rosenberg etc.) and I have no intention whatsoever to compete with guys like that.

    Sounding great as always!
    Thanks Christian,

    DB
    Last edited by Dutchbopper; 05-19-2021 at 12:46 PM.

  6. #30

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    Kenny Burrell refers to other player's "systems". We all have to find a system that works for us and create a voice that let's the guitar sound like what we hear in our head. Letting your fingers do the walking isn't good jazz, it is just "noodling" You need to play what you hear.
    My personal word for that is "concept." Yes. Jazz is all about hearing things in your head and playing them. Preferably the things that sound good!

    My jazz voice sounds the same whether I play swing, bop or Gypsy jazz. I talked to Bireli Lagrene about this a couple of years ago and he and I both agreed that what we both have done is incorporated vocabulary from different styles of jazz to create our own personal "stew". Bireli's stew is way more advanced than mine in every way, of that I am certain.
    Same here. I do not speak the gypsy jazz language but I could sit in with most of them playing my own lines over their repertoire. In fact I do that often, jamming along over gypsy backings ... The blues thing I have taken from my days as blues and rock guitarist.

    DB

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Love Peter Bernstein (of course, how can you not?). Very strong concept (my personal word for style or system etc.). Very personal and unique too.
    I think what I find interesting is that his extremely personal style shines through his interest in playing the song. That taught me a lot.

    I never changed my concept much. From the beginning it was always the bebop thing. The "Wave" video I posted above is over 15 years ago and I still play it like that, probably with some more space and a few new sounds but not THAT different. You are what you is I guess ... Also, there is not much need for me to sound state of the art with totally hip and advanced melodic stuff because I only play for fun and most people seem to like what I do. I full well realize that my playing is deeply rooted in the past rather than the present or future and that it's all been done earlier. But as a non pro, I can afford that attitude. I do take what I do very seriously though. For me, the fun is in trying to get as good as it gets, given the circumstances (very old starter in jazz jazz, hobby player, etc.) If I'd suck at jazz guitar all of a sudden, I'd stop in a heartbeat. So I am not without ambition. But I am happy enough with my concept as it is ... The level of jazz guitar in my country is very, very high (Jesse van Ruller, Martijn van Iterson, Reinier Baas, Stochelo and Jimmy Rosenberg etc.) and I have no intention whatsoever to compete with guys like
    Sure. I’m not sure if I’m talking about a concept so much in this case so much as the process for playing a song. I don’t see it as necessarily playing a different harmonic concept and style etc.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    PRACTICE FOR HOURS AND PLAY GIGs - THIS IS A RECIPE.
    Oh man, you mean there isn't a book I can just buy? This is ... work!

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Oh man, you mean there isn't a book I can just buy? This is ... work!
    I have a lot of books...too many
    Best
    Kris

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    I have a lot of books...too many
    Best
    Kris
    I bought all these books and I still can't play. Like I bought all this exercise equipment and have it in my basement, but I'm still fat.

    I wonder if I'm supposed to USE all this stuff???????

    More work!

  11. #35

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    Books on jazz are like books on sex. Sorta ok to read but can’t beat practical experience.

  12. #36
    the joy of Jazz, part I and II


  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    Books on jazz are like books on sex. Sorta ok to read but can’t beat practical experience.
    That is so true! I bought my favorite guitar (I don't tell the others that...) based on listening to so many of my heroes playing it, and the sound was just like what I had heard, of course - same guitar! You do it justice. But there are so many other similar paths based on alternative influences that it's no use to compare. Everyone has their preference based on their experience. For me, when I want to play "Jazz", I almost always grab my 1959 ES-175D! With those Alnico pickups, it has a warm, balanced voice through any amp, or even sans amplification. Great neck scale. One of my influences, Jim Hall, once referred to it as a "cardboard" guitar, or maybe plywood, but it sounds great to me, and I play for my own pleasure so I say practical experience is indeed better! Play on!

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I bought all these books and I still can't play.
    Not true Lawson, not True. You absolutely can play.
    JD

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I bought all these books and I still can't play. Like I bought all this exercise equipment and have it in my basement, but I'm still fat.

    I wonder if I'm supposed to USE all this stuff???????

    More work!

    Lawson, do not put yourself down , Ive listened to the videos you've posted
    and they sound fine, especially a good rendition of Wes' version of Whisper
    Not. which sounds deceptively simple . Keep at it our friend , its a gift being
    able to play, Believe me your'e no slouch.

    Best, SF

  16. #40

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    Hi, D,
    One of my favorite tunes. Great job! So, there are two facets of a musician: personality and concept. The former tends to remain constant over the years; the latter is subject to great changeability. A few days ago I was reading some things I wrote in my middle twenties. They were well-written but would not represent who I am today--forty plus years later. My concept has changed although in a blind test, I would know I had written them(personality). Two well-known examples of this would be Miles Davis and Wayne Shorter. Both were consummate musicians who played "straight ahead" Jazz in the early years. Both, in later years, morphed into Fusion. But, however much their concepts changed, their personalities changed, little, if any.
    These videos, D, are priceless for a musician as a historic perspective to one's evolution. I wish I had a fraction of what I recorded in the past on 8 track/cassette tapes that was lost in residence moves, loans to friends/acquaintances, divorce, and pure negligence. Once again . . . nice playing.
    Play live . . . Marinero