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  1. #26

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    I was looking for a decent cover of at least one of Joni's songs. In vain, of course. Well, there was this young'un singing into her phone at home...


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Well heck if we going there how about Molly and Lindsay on Lindsay's back porch...


  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    I wonder why Pat was not a Mingus fan?
    Good question

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by HrundiV.Bakshi
    Something went wrong between Pat and Joni during the Shadows and lights tour, even though it was a big success. Pat said he had a great respect for Joni but he joined the band mainly because he liked to play with Jaco. Also, Pat was not a Mingus fan. Joni and Pat never recorded again nor Metheny is present on Herbie's The Joni letters, for instance. Anyone can help?
    I don't know any details...Pat had a history of one-off collaborations, with David Bowie and Ornette Coleman for instance.

    But Joni did have an intense physical relationship with Jaco. I have always wondered if that could have played a role in Pat deciding to get out of that collaboration when he did. Also, Jaco--always erratic--was getting more unreliable as a musician as time went on. That tends to color one's perception of a musical situation.

    Joni on Jaco:

    Joni Mitchell Library - The Life and Death of Jaco Pastorius: Musician Magazine, December 1987

    Pat reflecting on his time with Joni:

    PM: Yep, [Jaco] changed the bass – as we all knew he would.

    Jaco had made a couple of albums with Joni. I was on tour in Berlin and Jaco called me in the middle of the night asking me to join him as he was planning to tour with Joni. He said it was going to be a quartet of Joni, he, me and the drummer Don Alias. I loved those records of Joni’s and so I said to keep me posted on it. When I finally rehearsed with them, Jaco had also invited Michael Brecker, who is one of my favorite players. As we played together I thought that we also needed a pianist, so I got Lyle to join us and that was the band.
    It was a very different tour for me, because it was more of a rock tour where you play one night and then you are off two nights. I was use to working continuously and not having that kind of time on my hands. We also played these big halls and there were limousines and Lear jets and the trappings of big time music business. Honestly, that all made me extremely uncomfortable.

    JB: But was there something that you gained as a musician from that tour.

    PM: Well, it was great to work with Joni. She is such a fine singer and song writer. The band was a little poorly suited for her. The band was like this Ferrari that was limited to just driving around the block. We never got to really do what we were capable of doing.

    Pat Metheny : Writings: Just Jazz Guitar Interview

    A more recent interview (2019), in which he expresses his admiration for Joni:

    W.L.: In the news recently, there have been stories about the upcoming Woodstock anniversary and also some about Joni Mitchell turning 75 [Mitchell wrote the song "Woodstock" which was made famous by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young.] You were part of the terrific band that was on the tour to support her album "Mingus" back in the 70s. (Mitchell's album "Shadows and Light" was subsequently released with performances culled from that tour.) Thinking back now, what was that opportunity like for you and what did you come away with from that experience?

    P.M.: She's great. If think about the musicians that I've been around that really impacted me, if I think about the gigs that I played that have been unbelievable, they've mostly been with people who are fluent in the broadest sense of what music is, there's a kind of a sense of infinity when you're on the bandstand with people like Herbie Hancock, Elvin Jones, Roy Haynes, or Ornette (Coleman) -- you're dealing with infinity. For me, that requires a broad knowledge of music. There are lots of musicians who are dealing with a not broad realm of music but one where that realm goes very deep. Joni didn't really have a whole range of things, it was like a sliver; BUT, it was way, way, way deep and that is just as valuable and important as anything else. The main thing I carried from that experience is the admiration for how great she is and was.

    Joni Mitchell Library - Pat Metheny Q&A: A musician in pursuit of the perfect song: Syracuse.com, March 25, 2019
    Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 03-04-2021 at 06:44 PM.

  6. #30

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    I really enjoyed your post Dr jeff. I had forgotten that Jaco was on that tour also, and it was the first time i'd heard a fretless bass played like that. 1 of PM's comments reminded me of this: When they did 'Raised on robbery', it was driving rock; as they prepared to do it, Joni went over to Tom Scott and he seemed upset and insistent on something. At the end of the song (done very well), my college roommate expressed great displeasure that Tom Scott shouldn't be leading the band---Joni should. So this anecdote probably isn't worth a lick, but reading some of the above made me wonder if my roommate actually had picked up some of the tension...

    Sorry if this is boring; covid time on my hands may have made boring normal.....(and I'm at work....)

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringmann
    I really enjoyed your post Dr jeff. I had forgotten that Jaco was on that tour also, and it was the first time i'd heard a fretless bass played like that. 1 of PM's comments reminded me of this: When they did 'Raised on robbery', it was driving rock; as they prepared to do it, Joni went over to Tom Scott and he seemed upset and insistent on something. At the end of the song (done very well), my college roommate expressed great displeasure that Tom Scott shouldn't be leading the band---Joni should. So this anecdote probably isn't worth a lick, but reading some of the above made me wonder if my roommate actually had picked up some of the tension...

    Sorry if this is boring; covid time on my hands may have made boring normal.....(and I'm at work....)
    Well I understand Pat's "frustration" that they had a Ferrari and weren't driving it like a race car.

    But it WAS beautiful music. I love that album quite a bit.

    When you're a sideman, you just have to play the way that complements your leader, until the gig is over, anyway. (I remember Eric Clapton writing about how he enjoyed the relative anonymity and lack of stress when backing up Delaney and Bonnie and George Harrison, among others. Of course he isn't a visionary and a perfectionist the way Pat is.)

  8. #32

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    Shadows and Light
    maybe It wasn’t a ferrari ....

    but it was a beautiful sailboat

    (and the outro to Dry Cleaner is pure JAZZ
    high energy and scorching

  9. #33

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    Thank you Doctor Jeff for your post

  10. #34

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    I didn't see it posted but here is a song from the Early years Box set 1963-1967. Recently released, here is the rolling stone article.
    'Joni Mitchell Archives Vol. 1: The Early Years (1963-1967)' Takes Us Back to the Legendary Artist's Young Folkie Days - Rolling Stone

    And one more Joni link.
    All the tunings to all the songs.
    Joni Mitchell - Tuning Patterns

    Super big fan here.

  11. #35

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    Just my opinion but I didn't care for the music she made with Jaco and Metheny etc. I thought they were poorly suited to her. Jaco was way too busy and I don't think any of them really embraced the sideman role the way should have.

  12. #36

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    I love Joni Mitchell. Her voice is sublime! Fabulous voice, full of richness and range.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringmann
    I really enjoyed your post Dr jeff. I had forgotten that Jaco was on that tour also, and it was the first time i'd heard a fretless bass played like that. 1 of PM's comments reminded me of this: When they did 'Raised on robbery', it was driving rock; as they prepared to do it, Joni went over to Tom Scott and he seemed upset and insistent on something. At the end of the song (done very well), my college roommate expressed great displeasure that Tom Scott shouldn't be leading the band---Joni should. So this anecdote probably isn't worth a lick, but reading some of the above made me wonder if my roommate actually had picked up some of the tension...

    Sorry if this is boring; covid time on my hands may have made boring normal.....(and I'm at work....)
    I’m going from my slowly fading memory but I think Tom Scott did the Miles of Aisles tour with, it sounds like Larry C (maybe Robben Ford? But I think Larry)) on my Alexa right now, and, I’m guessing, Max Bennett on bass. John Guerin on drums.

    Jaco, Pat et al did the Shadows and Light tour. I’m guessing Jaco might have been a little overbearing and hard to take on that tour. I see he has production/composing credit on the project and he was, uh, spending time, with Ms. Mitchell.

  14. #38

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    And one more Joni link.
    All the tunings to all the songs.
    Joni Mitchell - Tuning Patterns

    Wow !
    thats an incredible resource ....

    thanks so much for that link

  15. #39

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    Looks like I need to get my acoustic guitar fixed up and restrung.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bach5G
    I’m going from my slowly fading memory but I think Tom Scott did the Miles of Aisles tour with, it sounds like Larry C (maybe Robben Ford? But I think Larry)) on my Alexa right now, and, I’m guessing, Max Bennett on bass. John Guerin on drums.

    Jaco, Pat et al did the Shadows and Light tour. I’m guessing Jaco might have been a little overbearing and hard to take on that tour. I see he has production/composing credit on the project and he was, uh, spending time, with Ms. Mitchell.
    Robben Ford.

  17. #41

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    I came to know her works relatively late... I occasionally bought two LPs 'Blue' and 'Mingus'...

    (She was not well-known in Russia as much as other heroes of music of 60s-80s probably because the lyrics is an important part of her work and it should be understood to really perceive her work)...

    It is interesting that I was much fascinated by her musicality... Bob Dylan for me is first of all a 'singing poet' - he has his own authencity in performance but for him music is supportive tool to express poetry.

    But Joni is exquisite, subtle, sophisticated musician... her choice of arrangements, her particular vocal intonation, her melodic and rythmic gift...

    She expresses so much the best feartures of American music... for even more than Tom Waits and Randy Newman because these two use a lot of cultural references (they play a bit of this post-modernistic game, acting is part of their artistic style) and Joni is totally authentic..
    whichever style she dives in she is absolutely directly in it, no mimicking, no acting, no pretention...

    I play her tunes all the time (sometimes even sing it), many of them are a foundation for a wonderful never-ending improvizational journey.

  18. #42

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    They seem to be enjoying themselves here.


  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    I came to know her works relatively late... I occasionally bought two LPs 'Blue' and 'Mingus'...

    (She was not well-known in Russia as much as other heroes of music of 60s-80s probably because the lyrics is an important part of her work and it should be understood to really perceive her work)...

    It is interesting that I was much fascinated by her musicality... Bob Dylan for me is first of all a 'singing poet' - he has his own authencity in performance but for him music is supportive tool to express poetry.

    But Joni is exquisite, subtle, sophisticated musician... her choice of arrangements, her particular vocal intonation, her melodic and rythmic gift...

    She expresses so much the best feartures of American music... for even more than Tom Waits and Randy Newman because these two use a lot of cultural references (they play a bit of this post-modernistic game, acting is part of their artistic style) and Joni is totally authentic..
    whichever style she dives in she is absolutely directly in it, no mimicking, no acting, no pretention...

    I play her tunes all the time (sometimes even sing it), many of them are a foundation for a wonderful never-ending improvizational journey.
    Interesting observation because she in not American. She's Canadian and I've always considered her music to be very much authentically Canadian. There was a great wave of brilliant Canadian singer song writers in the 60's and 70's.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    They seem to be enjoying themselves here.

    Jaco stole her amp so she stole Pat’s guitar...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    Interesting observation because she is not American. She's Canadian and I've always considered her music to be very much authentically Canadian. There was a great wave of brilliant Canadian singer song writers in the 60's and 70's.
    True but she moved to California early in her career. Like Neil Young, though she refers to her Canadian roots a lot, she certainly made use of her time in California. When I think of her (or Neil) I think of California, not Canada, except for her reference to Oh Canada in River. (Sorry) Though they both start with a CA. Maybe West Coast musician?

    I saw the documentary on Gordon Lightfoot the other night—now HE’S Canadian through and through. Never left as far as I know. (Many people refer to him as the poet laureate of the Great Lakes region.)

  21. #45

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    Come to think of it one could write a book on musicians who grow up one place and travel another to follow their muse. The man from Hibbing...Bob Zimmerman...the Canadians and Arkansan who moved to Woodstock New York to work with Bob...the girl from Port Arthur, TX, who moved to San Francisco and changed RNR...

    The list goes on and on.

    In fact, it’s interesting to look at who “stayed local” and developed that voice—Bruce Springsteen, Johnny Cash, Elvis, Gordon Lightfoot—and who had to get out of Dodge to find their voice.

    Some artists leave home then come back or at least base their career on memories of home. (A lot of country artists seem to do that.)

    I will say that Joni and Neil and probably a lot of others seem to straddle the divide between home and their adopted home of California comfortably in their art.

  22. #46

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    The early to mid-60s NY folk scene faded, and by approx 1970, much of the pop music business had moved to LA. The singer-songwriter followed in Dylan’s footsteps, went electric, , and “folk rock” was on the front page of Time magazine. CSN&Y, J Browne, James Taylor (Sweet Baby James), and, of course, Joni. A few other bands from that time and place: Frey and Henley backing Linda Ronstadt. That’s where the action was.

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bach5G
    The early to mid-60s NY folk scene faded, and by approx 1970, much of the pop music business had moved to LA. The singer-songwriter followed in Dylan’s footsteps, went electric, , and “folk rock” was on the front page of Time magazine. CSN&Y, J Browne, James Taylor (Sweet Baby James), and, of course, Joni. A few other bands from that time and place: Frey and Henley backing Linda Ronstadt. That’s where the action was.
    That was a fertile scene. Of course Joni dated most of those guys!

    Of those mentioned only David Crosby and Jackson Browne were born in California. The rest were born far, far away. Terry Melcher (Doris Day's son, btw) was an important figure in the Laurel Canyon group, having written songs and produced the Beach Boys and Mamas and Papas, then producing the Byrds first album (with Crosby as a member of course).

    David Crosby met Joni performing in Florida, and persuaded her to come back with him to LA, where he hooked her up with David Geffen among others and produced her first album. The rest, as they say, is history.

  24. #48

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    New Zealand's leading country singer, Tami Neilson, is Canadian. She came here in 2007, mid-career.


  25. #49

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    Gordon Lightfoot was pretty damned successful although his permanent residence always was Toronto. He spent his time in LA in the early 70s.

    There aren’t many Canadians of a certain age who wouldn’t recognize “There was a time in this fair land when the railroad did not run.” and probably sing you the next line.

    I grew up on Gordon Lightfoot. So did Joni, to a certain extent.

    As a result of this thread I am enjoying listening to some of Joni again. C&S was a fave back in the day. Long time ago now.
    Last edited by Bach5G; 03-15-2021 at 07:05 PM.

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bach5G
    Gordon Lightfoot was pretty damned successful although his permanent residence always was Toronto. He spent his time in LA in the early 70s.

    There aren’t many Canadians of a certain age who wouldn’t recognize “There was a time in this fair land when the railroad did not run.” and probably sing you the next line.

    I grew up on Gordon Lightfoot. So did Joni, to a certain extent.

    As a result of this thread I am enjoying listening to some of Joni again. C&S was a fave back in the day. Long time ago now.
    A lot of musicians spent time in CA in the 70’s, but I think Gordon lived in Canada more or less exclusively after living in LA to study music ‘58-60. He is a bit older than most of the other artists of the 60’s.

    The one thing ALL the above musicians had in common was that they played The Troubadour in West Hollywood. This was THE place for aspiring musicians in the 60’s and 70’s.