Newer Music Rant!

[Thumpalumpacus]

An honest question with good intent: If we continue down the road with electronic music replacing live musicians, how do we grow personally/musically when our musical feedback is set, clearly delineated and from a machine? I ask this since my greatest personal growth(after I acquired my technical skills on both woodwinds and guitar) as a working musician outside of Classical Music(Jazz/R&B,Funk/Soul/Bossa) was the interplay I had with other serious musicians. I couldn't count the times one of the band members said something musically that opened a new window into my playing. And,even today, I would rather take a little less for a gig ,personally, and hire another player(s), than play with canned music. However, for the last 28 years, I have played solo and on rare occasion with a vocalist(Bossa). Perhaps someone can explain.
Good playing . . . Marinero

I detest working with digital rhythms. Whether it's swing, funk or skank, computers just don't deliver. Back in the 90s when I had the home studio, I never bought a drum machine. I bought a good metronome, put it into the cans, and pulled drums tones up onto my keyboard. Two tracks, one with kick and toms, the other with snare and cymbals (all for sake of EQ), but tracked live and played by hand so that if I needed swing, funk, or skank, I could supply it.

I may or may not be in the minority here, I dunno, but I firmly believe that the digital era has really reduced the musicality of what we hear nowadays. I've yet to hear a drum program that can respond to, say, a Stan Getz or Chick Corea head, where the beat is all over the place but it still makes sense -- without going wooden.

[tonyb300]

But after all of my posts and taking in various arguments, I think I have a clearer understanding why some of you don't get it. You mostly are part timers who haven't had enough gig experience both live and in the studio.
When you do something for a living for a long time you understand how it works both good and bad.

I think this says it in a nutshell, (translation: "I'm an ex pro and that means I'm the authority and you don't know sh!t".

Personally IDGAF if OP played rhythm on a bunch of tracks back in the day, legit resume, sure, but that doesn't make his ears and mind superior to anybody. Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of what he says on the subject but even though there's a ton of crap out there, I've hit this thread several times with some of the rare decent songwriting going on, yet rather than accept defeat ......

[emanresu]

The "drum program" is in the hands of the programmer. If you don't like it, thats fair. They are getting smarter though. The programmers. I bet in 2050 or so, there are no live drummers left. Cant beat the dead drummer.

In "pop" that is.

Or whatever. You know, when not caring about how the world works, its a whole new world. Easy.

[pauln]

jads57,

If you would agree that there is some new good music out there (people say there is, "You just have to look for it!"), I would agree that the big tragic sadness between then and now is that back then you didn't have to look for it - it was everywhere all the time, we were immersed in it.

[emanresu]

But whats wrong with having to look around?

[jads57]

The good thing is I quit doing the Pop gigs 5 years ago. When I had to play with tracks along with the band, that iced it for me. It was like going to Kindergarten all over again and paint by crayon numbers, YUCK!
And the Music wasn't even 4 chords that made any sense at all musically.

If this is what music has become and accepted as legit, I feel sorry for you! Sure it's entertainment but no musical sense or talent in any way!
This along with money taken out of the equation has killed music in all fields,including Jazz.

There is no real Swing or Groove that compares to when real experienced musicians create it playing live together on stage or studio.
Prince and Michael Jackson are good examples of when it started to go off the rails. Production and plugins were used to spice up the track along with musicians. But it was fake in many ways, and really never grooved as hard as
say Tower of Power, James Brown, even Average White Band,LOL!

The same with all other genres as well. The same thing occurred to make more money and create Disneyfied excitement. And the fact that it sold is all that mattered to the bean counters. So if this is your idea of Cool! Please have at it all you like, and Count me out.
It's not about being old, it's about music and groove. And if you can't tell the difference I feel sorry for you , and no amount of trying to show the difference is going to help.

[sgosnell]

As someone once said, "It takes a really good drummer to be better than no drummer".

[emanresu]

Why the fuck you think the real groove is gone? Its not! People do it! All day long.

[Stevebol]

Is this the most epic 'get off my lawn' thread ever?

[jads57]

As I've said before way too many amateurs posting opinions they have no real knowledge in, or time in the saddle.

At least when I was younger ,even though I had no real knowledge of certain harder genres of music like Jazz. I definitely understood why they thought the newer music was to simpleton for them. And I still held them in High Regard and tried to actually learn from them.

Most notable quote from a great Jazz pianist in L.A. "Swings like a Turd in a Punch Bowl!" Definitely seems to apply to almost all the newer stuff.

[cosmic gumbo]

I'm 65, and when that nostalgia hits me hard, I have to go back and recharge my creative spark with some of that older high quality pop music of my youth.

[grahambop]

As someone once said, "It takes a really good drummer to be better than no drummer".

I believe that was Chet Baker. Explains why so many of his later recordings were trios with no drummer.

[jazznylon]

[cosmic gumbo]

[Marinero]

Once again, the Herd is dumping on Jads. Their Herd offers protection, security, sameness, predictability, singularity of mind, confirmation, deindividuation, and the inability to coalesce the past and presence in objective criteria. They are smug, righteous and determined and their pathway ,as illustrative in History, always leads to the bottom. But they have a voice in a world where standards continue to decline in the Arts and the "least common denominator" is the norm. Whether we look at Painting, Music, Literature . . . there is a decline in talent and ability and "sameness" becomes the working narrative. No philosophical Mumbo Jumbo can change this reality. If you can't see it . . . fine. This is a world where the one-eyed Man is king. Good playing . . . Marinero

[jameslovestal]

Once again, the Herd is dumping on Jads. Their Herd offers protection, security, sameness, predictability, singularity of mind, confirmation, deindividuation, and the inability to coalesce the past and presence in objective criteria. They are smug, righteous and determined and their pathway ,as illustrative in History, always leads to the bottom. But they have a voice in a world where standards continue to decline in the Arts and the "least common denominator" is the norm. Whether we look at Painting, Music, Literature . . . there is a decline in talent and ability and "sameness" becomes the working narrative. No philosophical Mumbo Jumbo can change this reality. If you can't see it . . . fine. This is a world where the one-eyed Man is king. Good playing . . . Marinero

What I see is mindless rambling of old farts, by people that are no longer relevant (if they ever were).

But I do support good playing. This is the advise I gave from the start; stop with the rants, pick up your guitar and play the music that moves your soul!

[Marinero]

What I see is mindless rambling of old farts, but people that are no longer relevant (if they ever were).

But I do support good playing. This is the advise I gave from the start; stop with the rants, pick up your guitar and play the music that moves your soul!

James,
I didn't think it existed . . . but I am now convinced that YOU are a Seer. Congratulations on your unusual abilities to know the lives of people you don't know or have ever met. Perhaps, you missed your calling . . . let me tell you about a Gypsy woman I once knew who told me . . .
Good playing . . . Marinero

[jameslovestal]

James,
I didn't think it existed . . . but I am now convinced that YOU are a Seer. Congratulations on your unusual abilities to know the lives of people you don't know or have ever met. Perhaps, you missed your calling . . . let me tell you about a Gypsy woman I once knew who told me . . .
Good playing . . . Marinero

Stop being an idiot. It is Jads and you that are the ones that claim to know about the lives of an entire generation of musicians (those younger than yourself): That they don't want to make what you define as good music. That they just do so to make money or to show off or to get popular.

You dismiss this entire generation as hacks and phonies.

[jads57]

Thanks for the comments Marinero! Younger folks are usually impatient and eager to show their prowess before they are ready. I know this all to well by my experiences over the many years of playing music and living life.

But a couple experiences at a younger age by getting to share a stage with older great musicians like Eric Gravatt (drummer extraordinaire) and a few others as well, taught me it's a discipline that takes a lifetime to master. And I'm far from it still even in my 60s.

The main point is that this time around it's all different due to technology. And I would never be inspired to pursue music since its so driven by technology rather than people working together. Very little improvisation nowadays or even daring in arrangements.

Friends of mine who made good livings writing jingles and doing gigs have all But given up do the lack of funding and competing with kids who live in their parents basements, lol!
And mind you these are people who do national work like Prairie Home Companion, National acts, National Jingles, Broadway Shows,etc. These are serious professional with long resumes. Very Sad day for music indeed!

[fep]

Just got a roll with it.

I mostly like musicians playing original music, for me great musicians playing over tired old standards, that doesn't excite me much. And that's what I see the really good improvisors doing around these parts for the most part. Such a waste of talent and skill.

I like finding good young players, there is something about the youth... Probably not to jads standards, but I like it... I also prefer music with vocals and like I said songwriters playing their own music.

[Marinero]

Stop being an idiot. It is Jads and you that are the ones that claim to know about the lives of an entire generation of musicians (those younger than yourself): That they don't want to make what you define as good music. That they just do so to make money or to show off or to get popular.

You dismiss this entire generation as hacks and phonies.

Hi, J,
So, if we use your above remarks as a basis for taste in music, please simply list your top five young musicians/groups in the last 30 years that you believe are on par with artists like John Coltrane, Chet Baker, Wes Montgomery, Zoot Sims, Thelonius Monk, or vocalists as Johnny Hartman, Sarah Vaughan, Billie Holiday, Shirley Horn, or Dinah Washington as they were developing their careers. Perhaps I missed something.

Good playing . . . Marinero

P.S. When you use derogatory terms like "idiot" in polite conversations, you lower the level of serious discourse. It points to a failure in you to be able to effectively communicate your ideas in a rational, civil and intelligent manner . . . especially when there is no reason to do so other than you disagree with another's point of view or perhaps, cannot think of a reasonable, well-honed response to one's remarks. M

[christianm77]

I can’t but help people who say this sort of stuff have limited exposure to different styles, traditions and ways of making music.

Like people who talk about ‘great composers’ and reel off the usual 18th-19th century canon...

[Marinero]

[QUOTE=christianm77;1034495]I can’t but help people who say this sort of stuff have limited exposure to different styles, traditions and ways of making music.

Like people who talk about ‘great composers’ and reel off the usual 18th-19th century canon...[/QUOTE.


Hi, C,
I think the above statement is unfair since I merely asked James for a comparable list of younger musicians of the same caliber as my list. New is not always better . . . just sometimes NEW. That's why I asked James for a simple list. He should easily be able to provide one based on his remarks and personal tastes. I hope this discussion continues on a high level since much could be gained from the discourse. It has been very interesting to date. Thanks for your reply. Good playing . . . Marinero

[fep]

Joey Alexander when he was 12, he's 16 now. If you don't know who he his you really haven't been paying attention.

[Marinero]

Joey Alexander when he was 12, he's 16 now. If you don't know who he his you really haven't been paying attention.

Good example. And, yes . . . I've been following Joey for years. Good playing . . . Marinero