The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 13 12311 ... LastLast
Posts 1 to 25 of 318
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    My daughter just played a new Alecia Keys video ,just her singinging and playing piano. Just want to say how awful the actual music was. She is a way more capable musician of playing more sophisticated harmonic structures.

    But just like John Legend, and many other current Pop Icons. They play a simple 4 chord triadic repetitive set of changes, much like 1950s Doo Wop type of song form. And while simple isn't the problem, it's the actual lack of musicality it generates. Almost like a computer generated the song.
    I think Tony Bennett said it best describing it as 4 chords and 3 of them are wrong,LOL!

    I have enough of an issue with guitarists dumbing down the harmonic structures of songs. But when someone like Alecia Keys who is so much better does this it drives me CRAZY !

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    My daughter just played a new Alecia Keys video ,just her singinging and playing piano. Just want to say how awful the actual music was. She is a way more capable musician of playing more sophisticated harmonic structures.

    But just like John Legend, and many other current Pop Icons. They play a simple 4 chord triadic repetitive set of changes, much like 1950s Doo Wop type of song form. And while simple isn't the problem, it's the actual lack of musicality it generates. Almost like a computer generated the song.
    I think Tony Bennett said it best describing it as 4 chords and 3 of them are wrong,LOL!

    I have enough of an issue with guitarists dumbing down the harmonic structures of songs. But when someone like Alecia Keys who is so much better does this it drives me CRAZY !
    I really don't understand why you voluntarily decide to torture yourself. There is enough high quality recently released music to listen to, as well as all of the thousands of recording of made over the decades. In addition one can make their own music.

    To seek out music just to drive oneself CRAZY, is what I would define as CRAZY.

  4. #3
    Because you can't escape it,especially when your kids like it,lol!

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Because you can't escape it,especially when your kids like it,lol!
    Escape is the only option...


  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    It is a song about people struggling, which she modified to honour the first responders in this crisis: "So I sing a song for the hustlers trading at the bus stop/ Single mothers waiting on a check to come/ Young teachers, student doctors/ People on the front line knowing they don't get to run/ This goes out to the underdog."

    The harmonic structures are not that important.


  7. #6
    No argument with the lyrics or intent of the message. But such a talented artist just as Lady Gaga,Bruno Mars. Why do they feel the need to use such banal music as the backing track?

    Again folks, I get how it seems I'm out of touch,or insensitive about the message.
    But it's important that we not accept mediocrity as the bar to reach.
    Wether it be music,art,science, math, etc. Being the most popular should never be the most important factor.

    I'm a pro musician and since this is what I do for a living,I'm voicing concern.
    Please do the same in your respective field of endevour, to better all of us.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    No argument with the lyrics or intent of the message. But such a talented artist just as Lady Gaga,Bruno Mars. Why do they feel the need to use such banal music as the backing track?

    Again folks, I get how it seems I'm out of touch,or insensitive about the message.
    But it's important that we not accept mediocrity as the bar to reach.
    Wether it be music,art,science, math, etc. Being the most popular should never be the most important factor.

    I'm a pro musician and since this is what I do for a living,I'm voicing concern.
    Please do the same in your respective field of endevour, to better all of us.
    As already stated the purpose or 'goal' of the song was to honor first-responders. I.e. the lyrics were the heart of the song. I assume Keys wrote the harmony 'quickly' because that wasn't her focus. The song wasn't done by Keys to become more popular.

    Thus you singling out this specific song, created and sang for the reasons that it was, is just flat out misguided (at best).

    Hey, I understand your overall point about the downfall of music in general (i.e. I read the other rant thread you created). But using this song as an example in your 'mission' and creating a thread just about this song, isn't cool.

    As it relates to having kids; It appears you're also very disappointed in the musical taste of your own child. Maybe you should work in that area more.

  9. #8
    Actually not disappointed in. My daughter or her taste. She like most kids are way into today's music. But she's also loves Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Nancy Wilson, Donny Hathaway,etc.

    And Alecia Keys does a wonderful, version of Donny Hathaway's "Someday Well all be Free" And while I get the point you are trying to make. My point is an Artist
    such as Alecia Keys, Stevie Wonder,etc. are capable of so much more. And especially now, reaching deeper than just lyrics is important

    And again I don't mind simplicity Bill Withers among others did the same. And that IS the reason it becomes a standard,memorable, and part of the great American Fabric. If Ms.Keys was incapable, I wouldn't be making this thread in the first place.

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Perhaps she kept it simple on purpose so that others could learn and play it easily. We may never know...

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    Music is not so much art these days as communication artifice, requiring homogeneity derived from banal popular themes; behold...


  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov


    No offense Jads, but give it a rest. You're fighting the entire world and the worlds got bigger issues than how the complexity of what is in the charts affects your self esteem.

    Go play some good music, volunteer somewhere where extra hands are needed or something else positive ... or if you're feeling down take a bit care of yourself. Spewing negativity never improved any ones mood.

    Take care mate!
    I got a real kick out of this! Ha! ha! But why is it always an old man cursing the clouds, rain, snow, and other things he can't change. I see a lot of young kids doing the same thing these days. Everybody is acting out. Its not just us old guys that are cantankerous anymore. Ask any school teacher or coach.

  13. #12
    I totally agree I'm the Old Grandpa yelling at the Clouds. I think the difference is musicians who actually played music were responsible both good and bad.

    Again this woman is playing almost a 4 chord computer type generated progression on an instrument she actually has deeper knowledge on.
    Is she purposely dumbing it down and if so WOW! It tells us how uneducated the masses are.

    When Stevie Wonder or similar artist's did this they still had a musical backing track. Corny yes, but still something.

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    The uneducated masses. That's the crux of the issue.

  15. #14
    I was afraid that was it, now I know chose the wrong profession!

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Perhaps Alicia Keys would rather not have her family to set up a go fund me page to pay for her funeral expenses when she comes to the end of her days after decades of working.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Hey, the folk music revolution in the late 50s/early 60s, which also became the rock music revolution, etc., pretty much ended jazz as a popular form of music. Although that process began with bebop; as soon as jazz stopped being dance music and became more of a form of chamber music, its popularity began to wane. Simpler song structures, easier to listen to when requiring less attention, became increasingly popular. that process has just continued and now with the power of computers "singers" don't even have to be able to sing in key as long as they look hot and can dance.

    There was a brief moment with prog rock such as Yes, King Crimson, etc. which managed to be relatively popular and which involved music that was more complicated. But it didn't last. For some reason the Grateful Dead managed to run obliquely through popular music while still playing relatively complex music, but for all its charms even a ballad like "Stella Blue" is no "Stella by Starlight."

  18. #17
    Alecia Keys is rich already. Entertainment business is just humming along nicely. Music on the other has died several deaths with MTV, and Rap taking over as cheaper way of producing entertainment for business to get rich.

    The fact that we the general public accept this is deplorable. But so much for education, especially when they cut art and music funding.
    I'm not against McDonald's Cheeseburgers and cheap fun. I'm against comparing it against past accomplishments that are far better! And if you can't hear it, you should consider quitting music altogether.

    After all you guys can hear the difference between John Coltrane and Kenny G?

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    The fact that we the general public accept this is deplorable.
    Deplorable pretty much sums up the music consumers of 2020. As usual, it's mostly high school age kids spending money, the market responds to their tastes, just like they always have since they became the main music buyers in the 50's.

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    I assume Ms. Keys is quite well to do. My comment was a reference to Allen Holdsworth and others who played highly complex music, were revered by (only) musicians while being ignored by pretty much everyone else. They share a collective history of lacking financial means to pay for more than next weeks groceries. It would be great if things were different but they aren’t and it’s been that way for a long time. Hell, people now don’t even pay for the music that they really like.

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    .They play a simple 4 chord triadic repetitive set of changes, much like 1950s Doo Wop type of song form. And while simple isn't the problem, it's the actual lack of musicality it generates. Almost like a computer generated the song.
    I think Tony Bennett said it best describing it as 4 chords and 3 of them are wrong,LOL!
    i agree,
    but add although not a huge fan of Doo Wop. i certainly dont dislike, there are some real tearjerker tunes and although harmony often 1 6 2 5 ish the vocal melodies could be were something else................................. like everything else good and bad.

    FZ got me into a bit of Doo wop,

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    In re: popular music, the Roman satiric poet Juvenal summed it up best:

    "“Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.” " Juvenal

    And, a wonderful sign I hung in my office for 40 years that I found at a little country store while fly fishing in Northern Michigan: "Never try to teach a pig to sing . . .
    It's a waste of time . . . and annoys the pig."

    And, in response to those who eschew a critical view of contemporary life the words of the great French philosopher Rene Descartes:

    "I think, therefore I am."

    Hope that's some food for thought for those of us who see not only a decline in serious music but also a general, quantifiable decline in all things civilized and human. Good playing . . . Marinero

  23. #22
    Thanks for all coments fellas. Always good to hear from all sides of an issue. Especially those I disagree with and havent considered.

    Just as Pop music is Bread and Circuses for the masses. I really feel the difference is that by replacing the real musicians and their contributions to the process. We have lost the actual Soul or Magic, even if it was a banal song.

    By better artist's like Alicia Keys,Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars,etc. accepting this banal song forms and recording proccess. We have reached an all time low!

    I remember Herbie Hancock was severely critisized by his peers when he released The Headhunter album.
    But his feeling was to reach the public, and bring them up to a higher musical level.

  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    There’s nothing wrong with simple, the power of repetition is a very African jazz concept since the 60s. I don’t mind the three chords she’s playing, I think they have a nice meditative like quality. The problem I have is with the verses where she does that current style of fast syllable Nana Nana Nana hip-hop style of singing. It’s not melodic and I find it tedious and it sounds the same in hip hop influenced song after song. It’s almost corny and has an attitude effect I don’t connect with. I like when she sings the falsetto parts of the song, it sounds beautiful.

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    I've been listening to a public-radio, music-only, eclectic pop/rock, classic/modern mix radio station for about nine months, and getting exposed to current pop for the first time in a couple of decades, literally.

    It's not bad. Brittney Howard, Local Natives, Cage the Elephant are some of the fresh releases they play, and while it's not world-stopping, it's good music delivered well, to my ears.

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    The uneducated masses. That's the crux of the issue.
    And that's all that needs to be said. I sometimes think there's some sort of dark agreement made in the country where i live, (Belgium), between radiostations, to see who can play the most commercial crap and get away with it.

    And they do a good job i must say. They never fail to do so. There's a handfull of stations who actually play some really good music, but that 's it.
    Uneducated masses you say? Come on over, we have tons of those. And they're liking it too. I've never understood that.

    I'd like to join the grandpa, shouting at the clouds. It's better than to slide over to the commercial, poppy, let's melt those braincells into nohting, side.