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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    So Frank obviously hired musicians and guitarists to play parts with him or couldn't actually play himself.
    How do you know he couldn't play those guitar parts? Or is this more PIDOOMA from you? And hiring sidemen is part of the business, which anyone who's worked in it would know, but apparently you don't.

    Got any tracks of your original songs where you've played every instrument on the track? I'd like to get a metric for the value of your opinion. Certainly someone so critical has some beautiful stuff to offer. Or just something that you wrote and produced, performed by someone else? Maybe some live videos?

    Surely someone as opinionated as you has a solid resume that bears some scrutiny. Maybe you should offer something up so folks can appropriately value your loud opinions?

    Not gonna lie, I'm not holding my breath.

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  3. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Back on topic, I'm OK with today's music. Doesn't bother me.
    My post of Hello \ Goodbye is very much on topic:

    You say yes,,, I say no,,, you say why,,,, and I say I don't know.

    What I don't understand is why jads would 'like' it (since it should have been obvious to all that it was directed toward him).

    Just my way of trying to lighten things up around here (because I was a fool to take anything in this thread in a serious vein).

  4. #153

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    ^^^
    I was trying to lighten things up too.

  5. #154

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    i feel for dudes my age and older that rag on modern music. There is so much soulful melodic complex music out there. Whatever you want it is out there.

    Kenny Burrell says jazz guitar today healthier than ever, more people playing.

    Jonathan Kreisberg, Eyell Lovett, Mark Turner, Petros Klampanis, Szymon Mika non jazz John Moreland, Julian Lage, Missy Higgins, Norah Jones, Molly Tuttle I could go on and on.

  6. #155
    So here's some work I've done over the years here in the Twin Cities. Played with way too many local bands you never heard of as well
    But as far as national talent here are some.

    Ben Sidran ....Critics
    Alexander Oneil.... First CBS album
    The Jets...... one hit wonder band from Mpls
    Prudence Johnson ...Prairie Home Companion
    Badfinger....not released
    Roy Buchanon ...also not released unfortunately

    Backup band for: Doc Severensen, Bonnie Raitt, Martha Reeves, The Drifters, Shirelles, Paul Williams, Sister Sledge, Gloria Gaynor, Otis Day, Al Wilson, Linda Eder, The Steele Family

    I mostly have stayed in the Twin City area and played on a bunch of national jingles from ESPN,Target, Hormel,General Mills, Porsche, Radio Spots,etc.

  7. #156

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    You waited 165 posts to tell us that?

  8. #157

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    O.K., Guys,
    How about these two songs? Lyrics? Melody? It's hard to move forward. Good playing . . . Marinero




  9. #158

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    O.K.,
    One more and I'm off for the day. Good playing . . .Marinero


  10. #159
    No I was asked by Stevebol to state what I have done or where he could find examples of my playing. I actually am not saying I'm anything other than a pro musician who's made a living playing guitar. Not much of a living either,LOL!

    Also mostly I've played locally here in the Twin Cities by choice. So most of my work most people would not be familiar with unless you lived here in the past.

  11. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    No I was asked by Stevebol to state what I have done or where he could find examples of my playing. I actually am not saying I'm anything other than a pro musician who's made a living playing guitar. Not much of a living either,LOL!

    Also mostly I've played locally here in the Twin Cities by choice. So most of my work most people would not be familiar with unless you lived here in the past.
    No, I just asked about what gigs you had.

  12. #161
    My mistake it was Thumpalumpacus who asked for my resume. I'm just a jouneyman guitarist or sideman if you wish. Never was a song writer or wish to be one. I have played many styles of music to make a living from Country,Reggae, Jazz, Blues, Disco, Pop, Folk,etc.

    I play whatever style is required sans Classical and Flamenco. And don't play ethnic music other than say at Jewish weddings.
    But I've played for over 40 years professionally and can tell a well composed song.

  13. #162

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    'ethnic music' lol

  14. #163

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    Well the resume is impressive and your playing is solid, TBH I've been listening to you for years. Although I do hate to think it was you on those baby making Alexander slow jams I used to use on the females back then ...........


    But U haven't denied that Gregory Porter tune isn't well written, I think you need to admit I get double dog status.

  15. #164
    Ethnic , maybe a better word would be World Music nowadays. Everything from Russia,Chinese, Hungarian,Bolivian, Peruvian, African from different Countries, although I have played some I believe South African rhythms learned from local player Joe Shalita.
    There are a lot of styles within each these as well!

    Tonyb : My era was Frankie Beverly and Maze as well as Teddy Pendergrass and Marvin Gaye.

  16. #165

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    World music is also falling out of favour as a term.

  17. #166

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    But there is a point here, because a large amount of the genuinely interesting music I have heard in the past decade or so has come outside of Europe and the US. Take Tinariwen for instance.

  18. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57

    Tonyb : My era was Frankie Beverly and Maze as well as Teddy Pendergrass and Marvin Gaye.
    Mine as well, in fact I used back up a singer that did Happy Feelings & Golden Time of Day regularly, even Let's get it on, but never anyone with the cajones to do Love TKO.

    I get it though, I feel the same way about all the cut & paste automated crap that's shaped the way popular music is composed and arranged. All in a box and easy to quantize.

    So here's my questions:
    Where's the cutoff?
    When is it that you feel modern music took the tail dive?
    When MIDI or drum machines or samplers & sequencers took over?
    When spitting rhymes replaced soulful singing?
    Did artists dumb down their music purposely to cater to idiots?

    I've got a little history with Funk/Soul/R&B so I'm really curious on this.

  19. #168
    Well as technology progressed to a point where it became a process of eliminating actual people who were involved in the process of creating the track.
    So drum machines, click tracks (Not for film), plugins replacing actual musicians, etc.

    So I get that synth replaced string and horns as well as bass and even guitars sometimes. And that a lot of creative stuff was still done. But if you go to a Stevie Wonder live concert, he mainly uses real musicians to replicate the recordings.


    Many Broadway productions have also replaced live musicians. And the audience probably doesn't notice or care. But while audio systems have become ever better
    It changes the actual music for better or worse!

    I'm not sure the Genie will ever return to the bottle. But I find it all very flat and 2 dimensional as a listener. But since it saves money and doesn't have work related issues like subs or unions,etc. It's here to stay.
    And if you watch music as most people do, than it does t matter to you.

  20. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb300
    Mine as well, in fact I used back up a singer that did Happy Feelings & Golden Time of Day regularly, even Let's get it on, but never anyone with the cajones to do Love TKO.

    I get it though, I feel the same way about all the cut & paste automated crap that's shaped the way popular music is composed and arranged. All in a box and easy to quantize.

    So here's my questions:
    Where's the cutoff?
    When is it that you feel modern music took the tail dive?
    When MIDI or drum machines or samplers & sequencers took over?
    When spitting rhymes replaced soulful singing?
    Did artists dumb down their music purposely to cater to idiots?

    I've got a little history with Funk/Soul/R&B so I'm really curious on this.
    We were in favor of drum machines in the mid-80's. No sequencing. It probably wasn't very smart to have that discussion with drummers around. Rappers thought, whatever. I'm going to go make money.
    They were better at drum programming. They had street smarts.

  21. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    We were in favor of drum machines in the mid-80's. No sequencing. It probably wasn't very smart to have that discussion with drummers around. Rappers thought, whatever. I'm going to go make money.
    They were better at drum programming. They had street smarts.
    You're right about the street smarts but at that time I was trying to do a ChiliPeppers/Primus funk rock kinda thing so I was still into drummers and never took a liking to them. I even do EDM tracks fairly well these days but don't enjoy the programming process or TBH the results, but the kids thinks it's up to date at least.

    I will admit I've liked songs that had drum programming, but that's usually in spite of that, Family Affair by Sly Stone I think was the first big hit with one, and I still love it.

  22. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Well as technology progressed to a point where it became a process of eliminating actual people who were involved in the process of creating the track.
    So drum machines, click tracks (Not for film), plugins replacing actual musicians, etc.

    So I get that synth replaced string and horns as well as bass and even guitars sometimes. And that a lot of creative stuff was still done. But if you go to a Stevie Wonder live concert, he mainly uses real musicians to replicate the recordings.


    Many Broadway productions have also replaced live musicians. And the audience probably doesn't notice or care. But while audio systems have become ever better
    It changes the actual music for better or worse!

    I'm not sure the Genie will ever return to the bottle. But I find it all very flat and 2 dimensional as a listener. But since it saves money and doesn't have work related issues like subs or unions,etc. It's here to stay.
    And if you watch music as most people do, than it does t matter to you.
    I didn't know stage shows went that route but I can see that, production costs on a lot of levels, not just musicians.

    Like you I'm tired of synths replacing most of the other instruments, not only for the principle and artistic difference, but sonically. I grew up on RTF and all the weird sounds Chick threw at me so I can appreciate keyboards with these tones, but today's music uses it in all the sonic spectrum and older music doesn't touch all those spots people are used to hearing. Sub Bass, trap high hats, epic synth patches, and autotune dictate this and everybody is used to it by now. Neat little boxes of music, quick, easy, and inexpensive to produce. I think we all know what product the marketing people want to promote the most.

    I have a theory about the techno takeover of all this. This generation grew up on video games, they had to listen to all that crappy computer music for years, every time they got to the next level they were rewarded with what? ... more crappy computer music. Not only did that get them used to it, it made them associate it with something good, winning the game. Like lab rats and sugar water.

    Well at least that's my conspiracy theory.

  23. #172
    Probably one of the best programmed drum tracks ever was Bring Me A Higher Love by Stevie Winwood. But it also had a great drummer J.R. Robinson if I remember correctly.
    Aside from the occasional use I much prefer the real thing! It's what makes the Music Breathe! Wether it was James Brown, Buddy Rich, or Led Zeppelin!

  24. #173

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    An honest question with good intent: If we continue down the road with electronic music replacing live musicians, how do we grow personally/musically when our musical feedback is set, clearly delineated and from a machine? I ask this since my greatest personal growth(after I acquired my technical skills on both woodwinds and guitar) as a working musician outside of Classical Music(Jazz/R&B,Funk/Soul/Bossa) was the interplay I had with other serious musicians. I couldn't count the times one of the band members said something musically that opened a new window into my playing. And,even today, I would rather take a little less for a gig ,personally, and hire another player(s), than play with canned music. However, for the last 28 years, I have played solo and on rare occasion with a vocalist(Bossa). Perhaps someone can explain.
    Good playing . . . Marinero

  25. #174

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    28 yrs doing a single?
    I'm glad that you're happy in that setting but that would drive me crazy. Many single gigs wind up being wallpaper/background gigs which can be pretty boring for a performer. I could do a single if I had other work in a band setting but not strictly singles. The interaction w others, even if it's just a duo is what keeps gigging interesting to me.

  26. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    28 yrs doing a single?
    I'm glad that you're happy in that setting but that would drive me crazy. Many single gigs wind up being wallpaper/background gigs which can be pretty boring for a performer. I could do a single if I had other work in a band setting but not strictly singles. The interaction w others, even if it's just a duo is what keeps gigging interesting to me.
    Hi, W,
    Do you think it might be my deodorant? It might seem as you say on the surface but 1.) I play the music I want to play( I change my repertoire to fit my mood that day)--sorry, no requests except happy birthday, 2.) I am paid very well, including tips, for my time and in cash, 3.) I only play very upscale events and I wear tux shirt/pants, 4.) I don't have to play to support myself so I don't take a job unless I like the venue, 4.) I have a following, so I guess people like my music and its a real benefit to the venue's bottom line that night, and finally, 5.) I don't have the patience I used to have for musicians who don't show up on time, come unprepared, have a bad attitude because their girlfriend left them, had too much to drink before they arrived and underperform.
    However, I'm new to the state where I live after losing a large following I had previously after 9,000 years in the area but I would be open to a talented Latina vocalist for some Bossa and a bass and drummer if the right ones appeared. However, then we all make less for our time and perhaps, I would have to deal with all the above-mentioned possibilities. I'll continue to be open-minded.
    So, W, I won't argue the point that the interaction is great as I have said many times in the past. But, I love good music and I detest irresponsible musicians. What's a guy to do?????? Good playing . . . . and alone again, naturally . . . Marinero