The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    If we look at music from its most elementary point, we must look to melody. This, of course, is the origin of all music that began around the campfires of primordial Man. Songs were sung that celebrated Life, Death, Happiness, Sorrow and Loss or even the retelling of important events in the group. They were clearly recognizable and capable of being sung by all members of the group. And, when a song was popular it was because it had an enchanting melody and profound words expressing some aspect of life. So, melody and lyrics go hand in hand.
    And, of course, we must look to originality. Is this song a rehash of other songs or is it unique? When we discover a beautiful melody, enchanting lyrics it is because they have an air of originality that other songs do not possess. Both melody and lyrics are memorable. So, when we listen to the above "song" what do we get? Enchanting melody, lyrics, or originality? No, we get none of these qualities.
    So, if an average English speaking person listened to this song, he/she might get 50% of the "lyrics." I got a few:
    "She's endangered," "Playing with toys," "blowing up the mountain," "ugly strangers," "watch a caravan fly." So, if using my above definition, how are these lyrics "recognizable and capable of being sung by all members of the group?" I had no idea what she was singing about other than some obtuse stream of consciousness in her mind. Secondly, is the melody "memorable?" Could you hum it to yourself on the way to work? And, does it have an "air of originality?" when the music sounds like some old George Duke piano licks from the 70's/80's and a predictable and banal trumpet solo reminiscent of Miles after he lost his mind. So, when Jads makes a point that there hasn't been any serious music written in 50 years and if we use this as an example, is he wrong? We all must be open-minded BUT, we must have standard from which to judge and if we compare the standards written 50 years ago to the tripe today, there is no comparison for the musically sophisticated ear. So, here's Little Jimmy Scott singing one of those old songs. What do you think? Good playing . . . Marinero


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    ‘I look so pretty I could kiss myself, gonna give the colour red the blues’

  4. #53

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    Dismaying how a thread like this attracts so much attention while other members of this forum are posting some great original music with practically zero feedback. Now, that could be something to "rant" about.

  5. #54
    Agreed with above statement . My gripe is it's all older been done music which is wonderful! Where are the New Artists that will add to the Great American Songbook? My generation had it's writers like Stevie, Lennon & McCartney, etc.

    I haven't heard any from the younger generations since the advent of the IPhone or dare I mention Internet.
    I'm comparing this because since it was touted as a great freedom for artist's. I don't see it that way at all. I see as freedom for posers to sell their crap and if it gets enough Likes,etc it's considered professional.

    Further contend since the demise of actually paying musicians,arrangers, etc. That this has kept many pros from contributing their abilities. This along with all of the computer assisted loops,drop ins,etc.
    So I think the amateurs have taken over, and for the WORSE!

  6. #55

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    Who cares about 'original' music, when you can do so much with tunes people know:

  7. #56

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    A few computer music pieces with a bit of "soul" (thats only in my opinion, of course.)







    Computers are AWESOME

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    Expecting musicians to starve for their art is just asinine. Sane ones produce music that sells. Jazz does not sell, and it's difficult, if even possible, to make a living just playing jazz. 90 or 100 years ago it might have been possible, but not in the last 50 or so. The number of musicians who make a good living doing nothing but playing jazz is vanishingly small. Jazz is not popular music, it's a small niche market. We may play jazz for the love of it, but not many on this forum actually make a living doing it. The number is not zero, but it's very small. Slagging anyone for making good money by producing non-jazz music is not something I consider right. I may not listen to it, but I don't condemn it. My idea of good music is not the standard everyone is required to meet. Rent has to be paid, food has to be bought, and baby needs new shoes.
    Fuckin' A. If you're paying your mortgage with your music, it may or may not say anything about your music, don't know and don't care, but it does say something: you're not balancing the books at a gas station to feed yourself, and that's more than I can say for myself.

    I would love to clear an honest living making music and doing nothing else. Like many here, that ain't happening for me. Spitting on them who do just strikes me as churlish.

    We can have a discussion about the quality of that music another time. But it's easy to be a snob from the bedroom.

  9. #58

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    Yeah, but "musical abilities" is such a wide term.

    My case - I have no artistic characteristics and I suck at keeping good rhythm. All I am good for is figuring out good notes. This ain't gonna sell today anywhere. Does that mean every person who can boss around and play everywhere is a better musician than me?
    Probably certainly yes. But I like what I can do and am able to be happy here. So are so many people of those 7,000,000,000 living around, doing different things in music. Who exactly are you blaming for not amusing you the right way? Searching for likable stuff is so easy these days.

  10. #59

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    The music business is not like it used to be, and it never was. It has been evolving and changing for as long as there has been anything like a music business. It's always changing. Once one made a living by having a rich patron hire you at his palace. Later one wrote sheet music sold in stores. Then the recording industry started, and things changed constantly. Now recording companies are scrambling to stay in business, and artists are creating their own recordings, with the equipment being easily and cheaply available. The quality of music has always been highly variable, some divine, some lame, and most somewhere in between. That goes for every music genre. Taste changes, and quickly. My taste is pretty well stuck far in the past, but I won't quarrel with those who prefer more modern music. I don't have to listen to what I don't like, at least not for very long. Whether I like a particular song or not does not determine whether or not it's good or bad. Same for all the music being produced.

  11. #60

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    After teaching for 15 years in music schools (about 200 students), the taste... damn. There is no universal "taste" nowadays. This is the only fact in music left at all.
    I do remember liking the same things as my friends when 10-20 years old. But only because there was so little of it (new). Now, omg! The students rarely share enthusiasm to a particular piece.
    And lately, for a few years, they offer songs that are NOT from the common dumb stream for the masses.

    The "business" is something else. Hell with the business

  12. #61

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    ..no words

  13. #62

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    In major cities there are still radio stations that use computer driven play lists of past popular songs and artists..I hung out in a coffee shop that had progressive rock/jazz/classical music playing over their sound system..they changed that to a "top 20" format station..why..they said customers didnt like jazz/classical...so you could hear Hotel California twice in the same hour if you stayed there that long..I found a different coffee bar..!!

    I understand the outlook about the quality of todays music vs back in the day..when I teach "kids" .. they want to learn,,how to play fast..some know how to play Steve Vai solos but dont know basic blues progressions or chords..and for me the fustrating part..they dont want to know

    I listen to quite a few different types of music..and like some of it (Sat Radio) I dont go down memory lane with music..I have heard enough 60's music and the musicians and the way people still romanticize it ...alot of it was awful...

    There were some very talented groups and some great songs ...and if you look/listen to varied stations you may find some gems being played by todays musicians..hey you have to look beyond pop stations..college stations and public radio has a wealth of "new" music and some of it is very good..

    we are not in a vacuum of no talent..and there are musicians/groups making a living and doing world tours and appearing on late night TV and have a loyal following of fans..and many have never heard of them because they may not have a "pop" hit on MSM radio stations..

    there is an abundance of talented guitarists playing all styles of music and some are technically mind blowing.. Matt Mancuso comes to mind and many others that are not on MSM so many have not heard of them...Eric Johnson has been touring for 20+ years and few know his work...he is an amazing player...

    Music schools are turning out super talented musicians every year and many choose not to go the MSM route...we must remember today a 12 yr old can create play record and market their music on the Net without leaving their bed room...and have a following of tens of thousands...a traditional record company cannot do that without spending many thousands..Yes its a very different world..and welcome to it..as Bobby sang..the times they are a changin..

    as for not likeing the general publics taste in ANY mass consumed form..be it art fashion film music food trends etc..they will always outnumber those that create it and few will understand it and the sad part of this is few will even notice or care...

    I would like a far more perfect world..and many other would also...some years back a group called Yatch..had a tune with a "hook".."I thought the future would be cooler.." ahhh..so did I..so did I..

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    But come on where's the Music that challenges us or is even worthy of considering on the same level! I say there are not the $$ to support such adventures anymore. Say what you will but Charlie Parker ,Jimi Hendrix, Jaco Pastorius, Sting, were all signed to major labels and had financial backing an insight to their musical abilities! What happened?
    You realize that downloading and streaming have changed the business model, right? You may as well lament the extinction of the dodo.

    And quite frankly, for every Jimi or Jaco, how many Archies or Bay City Rollers did we have to suffer? Record companies didn't give much of a damn about quality. They wanted "radio-friendly unit-shifters". If by chance there was some quality in the tracks, that was incidental.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    [...] ...so you could hear Hotel California twice in the same hour if you stayed there that long..[...]


    What'd they play in the remaining four minutes?
    Last edited by Thumpalumpacus; 05-03-2020 at 08:38 PM.

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    Who cares about 'original' music, when you can do so much with tunes people know:

    Hi, SG,
    You're right! I played R&B, Funk and Jazz/Rock during the 60's/70's in Chicago's lounges, bars, restaurants, hotels, colleges, and auditoriums. And, we played pop tunes known by everyone with our own arrangements where people actually danced. We got paid fairly and worked often. By the early 80's, Disco/recorded music killed all the jobs. Today, unless you're a big name, those jobs don't exist unless you're a desperate soul and play for free. I loved the bass and alto flutes in the piece. Good playing . . . Marinero

  16. #65

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    We live in a world of:

    - Sterile automated beats
    - Plastic sounding preprogrammed instruments
    - Computer singing
    - Legions of fashion model singers that look better than they sound
    - Disney channel alumnus becoming today's Pop stars
    - Crossover Country Rap
    - The death of Rock & Roll
    - Strippers ... I mean female rappers that can't spit rhymes very well, but does that matter?
    - The disappearance of an improvised solo in any form of modern music.
    - Tribute bands
    - Urban music losing it's soulful connection to the church
    - Steven Segal becoming a guitar player
    - John Mayer becoming a guitar hero
    - The fact that Jazz is at it's lowest profile of all time in the modern music world.



    ........ and you want to complain about Alicia Keys chord structure?!!

  17. #66

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    "I heard someone from the music business saying they are no longer looking for talent, they want people with a certain look and a willingness to cooperate," Joni Mitchell says, summarizing just about everything she feels is wrong with the pop world these days.
    "I thought, that's interesting, because I believe a total unwillingness to cooperate is what is necessary to be an artist -- not for perverse reasons, but to protect your vision. The considerations of a corporation, especially now, have nothing to do with art or music. That's why I spend my time now painting.”

    Washington Post, 2004

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Yes I complain because of everything that you list as a problem in your post tonyb300.
    When it is no longer a viable business for professionals, this IS WHAT HAPPENS!
    OK so if you agree that most of modern music (outside of Snarky Puppy and Gregory Porter) is total poopoocaacaa. And the industry has gotten rid of all the "professionals", right? ....... wrong. The people running the music industry now are more professional than most of the music cats of the past. They're selling the worst crap and getting everybody to buy it, if that isn't the most professional sell job I don't know what is.

    The point is, with all the real problems with today's music, why rag about Alicia Keys not doing complex chord inversions.

  19. #68

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    do we like this ? It's newish

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Lament the extinction of the Dodo? I'm saying that IS the reason why Music, songwriting is so awful these days. But let me list it for you.

    1.) Pros don't work for FREE!
    2.)Pros don't work for FREE !
    3. Pros don't work for FREE !
    And artists don't always create art for money, do they?

    If someone wants to write a top-seller, fine by me. I'm free to change the station for dreck, or tune in for good stuff. Most everyone knows that nowadays musicians earn their living playing live, because ... wait for it ... record companies are no longer able to provide big cash advances. Technology and music consumption has changed, and that is a two-edged sword.

    Artists can now completely control the recording and release of original music, but because anyone can upload original recordings, it takes longer to find the gems.

    "Pros don't work for free" is kinda definitional, a tautology, but in reply I'd say that artists create first and market second. If you're creating in order to sell, maybe that's part of the problem? Me, I'd rather listen to some nobody who's got good songs than someone who writes to garner a check -- but then, I've always liked weird stuff so my mileage is probably different than others.

  21. #70

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    Since 1999 he's written or co-written over 50 top ten hits, almost half (23) hit #1, has been awarded ASCAP's Songwriter of the Year 11 times, and has accrued a net worth of approximately $260 million as of 2017 (earning $54 million in 2016).

    Interesting things from his Wikipedia page:

    "We work melody first... We’ll spend days, sometimes weeks, challenging the melody."
    "Instead of making tracks for five thousand people, why not make tracks for a million?"

    Newer Music Rant!-mm-jpg

  22. #71
    My argument still stands including Snarkey Puppy. There are no songs being written now that are going to be remembered or thought of us as great songs.
    I don't care how popular or how much crap they can sell. Or what awards they ,at have won.

    And to the argument there are more professional people in the business now. What graduated from Music Schools and Business Schools?
    What a bunch of amateurs that haven't a clue. Even Prince, Frank Sinatra, and Jimi Hendrix never attended Music School,lol!

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb300
    We live in a world of:

    - Sterile automated beats
    - Plastic sounding preprogrammed instruments
    - Computer singing
    - Legions of fashion model singers that look better than they sound
    - Disney channel alumnus becoming today's Pop stars
    - Crossover Country Rap
    - The death of Rock & Roll
    - Strippers ... I mean female rappers that can't spit rhymes very well, but does that matter?
    - The disappearance of an improvised solo in any form of modern music.
    - Tribute bands
    - Urban music losing it's soulful connection to the church
    - Steven Segal becoming a guitar player
    - John Mayer becoming a guitar hero
    - The fact that Jazz is at it's lowest profile of all time in the modern music world.



    ........ and you want to complain about Alicia Keys chord structure?!!
    I came across these guys during the weekend. Been listening all weekend. Talk about originality. Proto-germanic language, historic instruments, tailord to modern equipment, if i've read correctly. Neo-folk, or as they call it; amplified history.

  24. #73

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    Huh? Are my tastes in the gutter?


  25. #74

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  26. #75

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    Tbh Snarky Puppy do kind of encapsulate what I don’t like about current music.

    Kids like it though.

    The band I like of that current jazz funk whatever crop are Knower. That’s what music should sound like in the distant year of 2020. I don’t like it when they do live band stuff though. It just gets more commonplace, more jazz funk.

    They should stick to computers with the odd Binney parp or Lefebvre bassline.

    funny thing about the kids is I played them Donny McCaslin Quartet covering Boards of Canada and they were like ‘this is really weird music.’

    they should be annoying me with their horrible noises not the other way around. The people of my gen and older are definitely left field of the younger musicians.

    anyway I like Knower’s songs. They aren’t conventionally ‘good songs’ they are more like weird thoughts Louis Cole has when he can’t sleep set to music with good pop hooks and some ‘progressive’ harmonic ideas but not in a wanky way. it also sounds like they recorded in their bedroom using the stock Logic plugins (im sure they didn’t); a little bit lo fi DIY...

    it’s the sound of the present day to me.

    And I can’t fault that.