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  1. #26

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    The song is in Bb major. Eb- is just the minor 4 which is a very common, not that out substitute. The chord after that, whether it's an Ab7 or A7 would just be an unnecessary 5. I would just view it as a minor 4 with the Eb-7.

    Another way to look at it is Eb-7 to Ab7 is a 'backside' 2-5 to Bb. But the next chord lands on a 3 instead of going to the 1 which is common.


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  3. #27

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    mmm. I was referring to "Eb diminished to Dminor" from the quoted answer. That's what I am finding in the All of me, in the last two bars: C Eb0 | Dm G7 . Last 2 being ii V to C.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by velja
    mmm. I was referring to "Eb diminished to Dminor" from the quoted answer. That's what I am finding in the All of me, in the last two bars: C Eb0 | Dm G7 . Last 2 being ii V to C.
    In that case the Ebdim is a substitute for A7.

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  5. #29

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    Thank you. Is that a tritone substitution? I mean why diminished7 chord then? Its not a dominant, it has bb7th (a C) which I am unable to relate to a A7 extension. Maybe a #9?

  6. #30

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    C - Ebo - Dmi7 - G7 was a common turnaround in earlier swing tunes. All of Me definitely fits that time period.

    While it’s true the diminished is most commonly used to move upward to join two diatonic chords a whole step apart, ie
    C - C#o - Dmi
    Dmi - D#o - Emi
    F - F#o - G
    G - G#o - Ami
    It is often used to descend from the IIImi to the IImi chords.
    Emi - Ebo - Dmi
    Try playing it and you’ll hear how satisfying the resolution is. You can’t play the others and get that same sense of resolution.
    So the progression is derived from
    Emi7 - Ebo - Dmi7 - G7

    The C chord has replaced the Emi.

    This diminished is sometimes thought of as a true diminished instead of being a replacement for a 7-9 chord.
    C - C#o - Dmi is really
    C - A7-9/C# - Dmi.

    This is not the case with the descending diminished.
    Many think of this progression as
    C - Co/Eb - Dmi

    Now you see we are thinking of the diminished as an altered tonic chord.
    However you think of it, it’s a cool sound and often a forgotten one.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by buduranus2
    For some reason I'm having difficulty with what would seem like an ordinary minor ii V7. I've seen a few different interpretations of this measure and this one sounds closest to my perception of how the song goes. I'm playing it as Ebmi7b5 > A7b9 and as close as I can come is Bb harmonic minor. Seems OK but somehow I still feel like I'm missing something. Maybe because it "resolves" to Dmi7? I would very much appreciate any observations or suggestions.

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    Cm7 to Ebm7 is a pretty common movement. Or you can play the Ab7 there. Then it drops a half step to G7, except you put in the iim (Dm7) first.

    Not that different from a tune where you have a repeated iim V7 and you play part of it up a half step to add a little variety.

    As far as playing over it, Ab7b9 is the chord. In real life, I play this by ear, but I tried to work it out more mathematically for the sake of this post.

    I thought to try Ab mixolydian with an added A, but the Bb didn't sound good. Sounded better raising it to B. Also the Db didn't sound good and I had to raise it to D.

    And, the result is Ab HW diminished.

    Ab A B C D Eb F Gb

    To compare, Bb harmonic minor is Bb C Db Eb F Gb A. The main difference is whether you prefer the D to the Db. Could go either way, to taste.

    What I play by ear is generally based on the notes of the diminished chord, A C Eb Gb.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by velja
    I just stumbled upon this in one of the "All of Me" versions. What is the theory behind this? So far I read (Jody Fisher) about diminished chord tendency to resolve upwards. You can put them as passing chords between any 2 chords as long as the diminished chord moves to a chord that has a root half step higher then its own. Having that said Eb dim to Dm puzzles me.
    Eb diminished is a substitute for A7.
    It is basically an altered A7chord

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