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  1. #226

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    I think it’s helpful if we stop worrying about the word ‘jazz.’ (At least for music that isn’t an obvious historical recreation.)

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  3. #227

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    I might share my study of the use of the word ‘jazzy’ in British architectural criticism.

  4. #228

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    Not All Songs Are Jazz - Not All Jazz Are Songs:
    Jazz Standards are a SUBSET of the American Songbook. Tunes that qualify to be classified as Jazz Standards may be SELECTED from the American Songbook, but Jazz Standards are not a collection of ALL the songs composed between 1920 and 1950. They are a small selection of songs uniquely suitable to become Jazz Vehicles for Jazz Musicians. Most music from the 20's to 50's is unusable in Jazz.

    Anything Goes?:
    Any music can be reharmonised and jazzified, but it may never become a Jazz Standard. Jazzification is like Gentrification - the fine art of putting lipstick on a pig.

    Was It An Improvement?
    Another consideration is that if the song of interest sounds better in it's original form and genre, it would be very uncool to convert it into a Jazz Piece. A Hard Day's Night was re-invented by Ramsey Lewis and there's another version by Peggy Lee. There are Bach pieces that sound good when Jazzified. But they make it because they are examples of an exception. It's interesting to hear, but it doesn't make a Jazz Standard. People would probably prefer the original, as it was written, to the revamped version.

    You Had To Be There:
    Most music of the first half of the Twentieth Century was considered to be "corn" by Jazz Musicians of the time. We have the luxury of historical revision, because we can view the entire past from the Internet. However, a review is not the same as being there, and not as valid.

    They Were Smarter, Then:
    If you take a letter and photocopy it, then photocopy the photocopy, and keep repeating this, soon you will end up with a blank paper. DNA is similar. After a while, the slate is clean, the pot is empty, and the horn goes un-played. Examine the genius of the Greek Philosophers. That era has not yet been duplicated. Thomas Jefferson was 33 when he wrote the DOI. Today, there are many 33 year old's still living in their mother's unfinished basement. Schools once drilled the 3 R's until it was second nature. Today, most graduates are intellectually challenged. Most of what we take for granted in our lives was invented by people long dead. Television, transistors, computers, automobiles, jazz...

    Technology today only re-hashes the past. The jazz Standards were written by composers and lyricists that have never been duplicated, and certainly not exceeded, in our residual worn-out gene pool. Today, Mediocrity Rules. Riot in the Streets, Loot & Burn. No Jefferson's here. No music, either. Just look at the birth years of the most accomplished Jazz Musicians for an eye opener. Do the Math, not the Meth.

    Music is over and so is Jazz. Music has become a Museum Adventure. People are even immersing themselves in Jazz by dressing up in suits and dresses and jiving the dance floors in imitation of the Jazz Years. Every time I pick up an instrument and play Jazz, I assume the role of a dead man. Often I mourn for those days. I was born at the tail end of The Music Era. Old enough to know it, but too young to be it.

    A Musician used to be an occupation. Many Men and Women could raise a family by being a Musician. Today, 15 year old's are paying Licensed Establishments for a spot on the stage for "exposure". They even have to drag their friends and parents and uncles to drink there as a prerequisite of their invisible "contract". After a few weeks they catch on to the scam and go back to school. Being a Musician today has become a Hobby.

    Here Today - Gone Tomorrow:
    Democracy is often worshipped by some, yet scorned by others. Standards are continually ratified by the public eye. There were songs, considered as Jazz Standards once, that are no longer remembered. Due to their great popularity in other genres, these attempts at Jazzification that would never pass muster now. Songs that I like may not coincide with yours: Margie, Canadian Sunset, Making Whoopee, and a host of Dixieland Classics. If reviewed by the public, the American Songbook, or the Real Book would look very different. Perhaps they would be gutted.

    Fake Jazz:
    Most Fake Books and Jazz Sheets are selected by editors who "deem" the song as a Jazz Standard for obvious marketing purposes. Is Petula Clark's "Downtown", by Tony Hatch, a Jazz Standard or a Carnaby Street Pop Ditty of the British Invasion? A truly wonderful song that could be Jazzified easily. However, it would not be considered a Jazz Standard. Burt Bacharach's compositions, as sung by Dionne Warwick, make a similar case. (I just noticed that the Great American Songbook excludes many British and French songs that I grew up with. Interesting. Perhaps there's a Cross-Over list similar to what the music editors did with Country Music in the 60's...)

    Rock Ditties Do Not Make For Good Jazz:
    Usually, an emerging artist wants to make a name for himself by forcing a size 11 Rock Song into a size 9 Jazz Tune. This occurs because it is not just Jazz that has died. Music has been exhausted. There was only so much that could be done with seven notes. Even in it's hayday, Jazz and Popular Vocal Music and Big Band Tunes were composed on the backs of other tunes. Plagiarism abounded and there were many songs that could be considered as twins. Rock is ON THE BEAT, Jazz is OFF THE BEAT. Rock does not propel listeners into a foot-tapping frenzy. Rock is always on the beat, so there is no need to snap your fingers. Jazz, by definition, invokes the listener to mark the "an" either physically or internally. Rock does not "swing". If it "swings", then it's Jazz. Rock is great and Jazz is great, but only a wanker puts Pop in Whiskey.

    Jazz Was:
    Like the ubiquitous "Kilroy Was Here!", Jazz has left its mark in plain sight, but no one can seem to find the crayon, anymore. The density of Jazz in the Past is a stark differential to the current situation of Rehash and "Oh! Let's make an original jazzy sounding song! My cousin has a gi-tahrr! We could be kinda sorta like the Andy Sisters!" Retro Rules...
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 04-09-2021 at 11:48 AM.

  5. #229

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    Musicians today are brilliant enough to compose the tunes. I think the missing element is there's no old pop music culture (first half of the 1900s) for the tunes to sit in and give them relevance, and then have the musicians jazz them up.

  6. #230

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    If new standards would appear today they would have to be tunes that cross generational lines. Back in the day everyone would know the songs that turned into standards, regardless of their age. I don't know how that can happen again.

  7. #231

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    The dancing is missing. Dance halls brought bands and audiences together. The bands played the popular songs of the day, because nobody wants to dance to a tune they do not know. The band members adapted the tunes, copied the adaptations of others, played homage to their heroes, reverse-engineered new songs from old tunes. But when people stopped dancing to jazz bands, the connexion was broken. Why play pop songs when nobody is dancing?

  8. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    Not All Songs Are Jazz - Not All Jazz Are Songs:
    Jazz Standards are a SUBSET of the American Songbook. Tunes that qualify to be classified as Jazz Standards may be SELECTED from the American Songbook, but Jazz Standards are not a collection of ALL the songs composed between 1920 and 1950. They are a small selection of songs uniquely suitable to become Jazz Vehicles for Jazz Musicians. Most music from the 20's to 50's is unusable in Jazz.

    Anything Goes?:
    Any music can be reharmonised and jazzified, but it may never become a Jazz Standard. Jazzification is like Gentrification - the fine art of putting lipstick on a pig.

    Was It An Improvement?
    Another consideration is that if the song of interest sounds better in it's original form and genre, it would be very uncool to convert it into a Jazz Piece. A Hard Day's Night was re-invented by Ramsey Lewis and there's another version by Peggy Lee. There are Bach pieces that sound good when Jazzified. But they make it because they are examples of an exception. It's interesting to hear, but it doesn't make a Jazz Standard. People would probably prefer the original, as it was written, to the revamped version.

    You Had To Be There:
    Most music of the first half of the Twentieth Century was considered to be "corn" by Jazz Musicians of the time. We have the luxury of historical revision, because we can view the entire past from the Internet. However, a review is not the same as being there, and not as valid.

    They Were Smarter, Then:
    If you take a letter and photocopy it, then photocopy the photocopy, and keep repeating this, soon you will end up with a blank paper. DNA is similar. After a while, the slate is clean, the pot is empty, and the horn goes un-played. Examine the genius of the Greek Philosophers. That era has not yet been duplicated. Thomas Jefferson was 33 when he wrote the DOI. Today, there are many 33 year old's still living in their mother's unfinished basement. Schools once drilled the 3 R's until it was second nature. Today, most graduates are intellectually challenged. Most of what we take for granted in our lives was invented by people long dead. Television, transistors, computers, automobiles, jazz...

    Technology today only re-hashes the past. The jazz Standards were written by composers and lyricists that have never been duplicated, and certainly not exceeded, in our residual worn-out gene pool. Today, Mediocrity Rules. Riot in the Streets, Loot & Burn. No Jefferson's here. No music, either. Just look at the birth years of the most accomplished Jazz Musicians for an eye opener. Do the Math, not the Meth.

    Music is over and so is Jazz. Music has become a Museum Adventure. People are even immersing themselves in Jazz by dressing up in suits and dresses and jiving the dance floors in imitation of the Jazz Years. Every time I pick up an instrument and play Jazz, I assume the role of a dead man. Often I mourn for those days. I was born at the tail end of The Music Era. Old enough to know it, but too young to be it.

    A Musician used to be an occupation. Many Men and Women could raise a family by being a Musician. Today, 15 year old's are paying Licensed Establishments for a spot on the stage for "exposure". They even have to drag their friends and parents and uncles to drink there as a prerequisite of their invisible "contract". After a few weeks they catch on to the scam and go back to school. Being a Musician today has become a Hobby.

    Here Today - Gone Tomorrow:
    Democracy is often worshipped by some, yet scorned by others. Standards are continually ratified by the public eye. There were songs, considered as Jazz Standards once, that are no longer remembered. Due to their great popularity in other genres, these attempts at Jazzification that would never pass muster now. Songs that I like may not coincide with yours: Margie, Canadian Sunset, Making Whoopee, and a host of Dixieland Classics. If reviewed by the public, the American Songbook, or the Real Book would look very different. Perhaps they would be gutted.

    Fake Jazz:
    Most Fake Books and Jazz Sheets are selected by editors who "deem" the song as a Jazz Standard for obvious marketing purposes. Is Petula Clark's "Downtown", by Tony Hatch, a Jazz Standard or a Carnaby Street Pop Ditty of the British Invasion? A truly wonderful song that could be Jazzified easily. However, it would not be considered a Jazz Standard. Burt Bacharach's compositions, as sung by Dionne Warwick, make a similar case. (I just noticed that the Great American Songbook excludes many British and French songs that I grew up with. Interesting. Perhaps there's a Cross-Over list similar to what the music editors did with Country Music in the 60's...)

    Rock Ditties Do Not Make For Good Jazz:
    Usually, an emerging artist wants to make a name for himself by forcing a size 11 Rock Song into a size 9 Jazz Tune. This occurs because it is not just Jazz that has died. Music has been exhausted. There was only so much that could be done with seven notes. Even in it's hayday, Jazz and Popular Vocal Music and Big Band Tunes were composed on the backs of other tunes. Plagiarism abounded and there were many songs that could be considered as twins. Rock is ON THE BEAT, Jazz is OFF THE BEAT. Rock does not propel listeners into a foot-tapping frenzy. Rock is always on the beat, so there is no need to snap your fingers. Jazz, by definition, invokes the listener to mark the "an" either physically or internally. Rock does not "swing". If it "swings", then it's Jazz. Rock is great and Jazz is great, but only a wanker puts Pop in Whiskey.

    Jazz Was:
    Like the ubiquitous "Kilroy Was Here!", Jazz has left its mark in plain sight, but no one can seem to find the crayon, anymore. The density of Jazz in the Past is a stark differential to the current situation of Rehash and "Oh! Let's make an original jazzy sounding song! My cousin has a gi-tahrr! We could be kinda sorta like the Andy Sisters!" Retro Rules...
    Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. No snark. This is thought-provoking material. Kudos!

  9. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    This thread = people who listen to jazz from the 1950s and then are surprised that there are no songs written later than the 1950s.
    OR...

    This thread = people who are surprised that there are no songs written later than the 1950s so they listen to jazz from the 1950s.


  10. #234

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    I think straight-ahead jazz would not survive without standards. They hold it together, maintaining links with the past and among the community of players.

    But what would I know? I listen to jazz from the 1970s.

  11. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    OR...

    This thread = people who are surprised that there are no songs written later than the 1950s so they listen to jazz from the 1950s.

    Well that doesn’t really work, because it’s quite obvious they haven’t listened to anything recent, so how would they know?

    its not like I’m Mr contemporary jazz....

    people should listen to what they like, and there’s an interesting conversation to be had on this topic, but you would expect people discussing this to have at least a cursory knowledge of contemporary jazz, where the recording and performance of post-GASB popular tunes is unremarkable.

    Which is not the same thing as making them standards, true, which I think leads to quite an interesting discussion on what makes a repertoire and so on.

    But there are those on the thread who seem to have it as a forgone conclusion that post pop/rock era material is not played. Which is false.
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-11-2021 at 03:12 AM.

  12. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    But there are those on the thread who seem to have it as a forgone conclusion that post pop/rock era material is not played. Which is false.
    I am sure we have all experienced jazz bands playing pop songs, and the vague sense of discomfort they cause. I am sure we all know, in a very real sense, that pop songs will resist becoming standards, because the original recording will remain sovereign. We can listen to Wes Montgomery playing Polka Dots and Moonbeams with perfect ease because it is the sort of song jazz musicians play and many had done so before him; it is part of a tradition. But when we hear Montgomery play A Day in the Life we feel slightly awkward, because we know it isn't true. Only the original on the Sgt Pepper's album is authentic; all the imitations are pale and the interpretations slouch towards hotel lobbies.

  13. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    But there are those on the thread who seem to have it as a forgone conclusion that post pop/rock era material is not played. Which is false.
    Yes, there are occasional performances of modern hits in the jazz style. But since this thread is about there not being any new jazz standards, do you know of an modern pop/rock hit that has become a jazz standard?

  14. #238

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    Cannot agree. There are lots of Beatles songs that can be covered profitably by jazz musicians: "Yesterday," "Here, There and Everywhere," "Eleanor Rigby," "Blackbird." Listen to The Bad Plus covers of pop songs, "Don't Dream It's Over," for example. Brad Mehldau plays "Blackbird." I'd like to hear jazz covers of Joni Mitchell songs, e.g. "A Case of You." There's the famous Pat Martino version of "Both Sides Now." I think you should google "Jazz covers of recent pop songs" and see what you find. There is an album of jazz covers of Stevie Wonder tunes by different people. There is a Billie Childs album of various singers covering Laura Nyro songs. (I can't say enough good things about Laura Nyro, she's the bomb, as far as I am concerned.)

    This kind of crossover isn't as common or obvious as it used to be in the 30's-50's, that's true. This may have more to do with rhythm than with anything else. There aren't that many songs written now, or at least played on Spotify, that mimic that older style of song.

  15. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by ledocs
    Cannot agree. There are lots of Beatles songs that can be covered profitably by jazz musicians: "Yesterday," "Here, There and Everywhere," "Eleanor Rigby," "Blackbird." Listen to The Bad Plus covers of pop songs, "Don't Dream It's Over," for example. Brad Mehldau plays "Blackbird." I'd like to hear jazz covers of Joni Mitchell songs, e.g. "A Case of You." There's the famous Pat Martino version of "Both Sides Now." I think you should google "Jazz covers of recent pop songs" and see what you find. There is an album of jazz covers of Stevie Wonder tunes by different people. There is a Billie Childs album of various singers covering Laura Nyro songs. (I can't say enough good things about Laura Nyro, she's the bomb, as far as I am concerned.)

    This kind of crossover isn't as common or obvious as it used to be in the 30's-50's, that's true. This may have more to do with rhythm than with anything else. There aren't that many songs written now, or at least played on Spotify, that mimic that older style of song.
    But I don't think any of them has become a jazz standard, no?
    Last edited by Tal_175; 04-11-2021 at 07:36 AM.

  16. #240
    Also it is important to distinguish between covering a tune in the jazz style vs using the tune as a vehicle for jazz improvisation. Many of the jazz covers of modern hits are very thin in the improvisation department. There might be a few contrary examples, but most are just jazz arrangements.

    Nevermind the new hits, I was looking for a jazz recording of "Send in the Clowns" with an improvisatized chorus, I couldn't find it anywhere.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 04-11-2021 at 09:13 AM.

  17. #241

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    How does a song become a standard? I think it needs to be played by numerous ensembles for many years. This creates a two fold problem. I suspect the turn-over/refresh rate in popular music is much faster than it used to be in the 30-50s. IE contemporary songs don't remain relevant long enough to become worth covering. Or they are not well known enough by the general audience to be worth covering/improvising over. There are now sooooo many more songs to pick from. The amount of popular music to choose from in the 30-50s pales in comparison to what is available today. Nevermind, the current trend/preference in less melodically and harmonically interesting music as a vehicle to improvise over. Two examples: "All Star" by Smash Mouth and "One Week" by the Barenaked Ladies. Both have verses and melodies that are essentially rapping. It doesn't make for good embellishments. That isn't too say they aren't good songs. I only recently noticed that the final verse of "All Star" they repeat the second verse lyrics but use the chords of the chorus instead. I can't think of many pop songs that reharmonize the verse like that. (Though it is easier to do when he hits essentially singing the tonic as a melody)

    The second point: there aren't enough Jazz enables to reach a critical mass of covers to create a new standard. Everyone wants to be original in their choice of covers. Why do what another group did?

    I also suspect current ensembles would rather write their own songs rather than pay royalties. Or folks play songs that are so old you don't need to pay royalties.

  18. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Yes, there are occasional performances of modern hits in the jazz style. But since this thread is about there not being any new jazz standards, do you know of an modern pop/rock hit that has become a jazz standard?
    Yeah that's an interesting question partly because I don't really know what a jazz standard isn't, if that makes any sense.

    For instance, is a less well known GASB tune a standard, for example, something like, I dunno 'Lullabye of Broadway' or 'To Each His Own'? Something that you wouldn't call at a jam? So in that case what makes it more a standard than Wichita Lineman, say? All have been recorded by a number of jazz musicians, which is my point. The difference for me is I've played WL on jazz gigs, and I've never actually played either of those. (Although I've heard LoB)


    • If you decide the criteria that something is a standard must come from the GASB tradition, you've kind of answered the question by definition. Standards = GASB.
    • On the other hand if you define a standard as something you can call at a jam session, some of the standards on jazzstandards.com aren't really standards. In this case you would definitely been safer ground calling 'Isn't She Lovely' or 'You Are the Sunshine.' At least where I am.
    • If a jazz standard is something you can play at a gig with no rehearsal off a lead sheet etc; well I've played originals, Middle Eastern tunes, Radiohead, all sorts. But I don't think that's a common definition.


    Probably I missed other ways of categorising.... And, of course jazz standard =/= standard song
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-11-2021 at 09:58 AM.

  19. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah that's an interesting question partly because I don't really know what a jazz standard isn't, if that makes any sense.

    For instance, is a less well known GASB tune a standard, for example, something like, I dunno 'Lullabye of Broadway' or 'To Each His Own'? Something that you wouldn't call at a jam? So in that case what makes it more a standard than Wichita Lineman, say? Both have been recorded by jazz musicians, which is my point. I've played WL on jazz gigs, and I've never actually played either of those. (Although I've heard LoB)


    • If you decide the criteria that something is a standard must come from the GASB tradition, you've kind of answered the question. Standards = GASB.
    • On the other hand if you define a standard as something you can call at a jam session, some of the standards on jazzstandards.com aren't really standards. In this case you may actually be safer with something Beatles for example.


    Maybe I missed another way of categorising....
    I'd go with the second definition. Countdown, Maiden Voyage etc aren't GASB tunes but they are jazz standards.

    Well, most concepts do not have a hard boundary. What's the exact minimum height for being considered tall? What makes a tune a jazz piece?

    So, I agree what qualifies a song to be a standard doesn't have an exact answer. Is any song ever published in a real/fake book collection a standard? Is every GASB tune a standard? There is no doubt ATTYA is a standard, So What is a standard, but there is also no doubt there are tunes that are on the boundary.

    One reasonable definition of, I think, a song being considered a standard today is it's likelihood of appearing in the next "X Plays the Standards" album. So what is the likelihood of "Blackbird" appearing in the next standards album?
    Last edited by Tal_175; 04-11-2021 at 12:35 PM.

  20. #244

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    I thought of another way to define a standard. Whatever wedding bands play must be standards (or a bar band). They have to play (though rarely if ever interpret), songs that a wide cross section of the public know. In that definition I think blackbird is a standard. And so is white wedding and the chicken dance lol.

    Jazz is no longer mainstream. No new standards.

    There are however newer songs in the Gypsy jazz scene. Bosa Dorado is for sure a newer standard.

    In rockabilly stay cat strut.

    In ska a message to you Rudy.

    In Punk linoleum or blitzkrieg bop.

  21. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I'd go with the second definition. Countdown, Maiden Voyage etc aren't GASB tunes but they are jazz standards.

    Well, most concepts do not have a hard boundary. What's the exact minimum height for being considered tall? What makes a tune a jazz piece?

    So, I agree what qualifies a song to be a standard doesn't have an exact answer. Is any song ever published in a real/fake book collection a standard? Is every GASB tune a standard? There is no doubt ATTYA is a standard, So What is a standard, but there is also no doubt there are tunes that are on the boundary.

    One reasonable definition of, I think, a song being considered a standard today is it's likelihood of appearing in the next "X Plays the Standards" album. So what is the likelihood of "Blackbird" appearing in the next standards album?
    So I reckon Stevie Wonder tunes are standards then

  22. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I'd go with the second definition. Countdown, Maiden Voyage etc aren't GASB tunes but they are jazz standards.

    Well, most concepts do not have a hard boundary. What's the exact minimum height for being considered tall? What makes a tune a jazz piece?

    So, I agree what qualifies a song to be a standard doesn't have an exact answer. Is any song ever published in a real/fake book collection a standard? Is every GASB tune a standard? There is no doubt ATTYA is a standard, So What is a standard, but there is also no doubt there are tunes that are on the boundary.

    One reasonable definition of, I think, a song being considered a standard today is it's likelihood of appearing in the next "X Plays the Standards" album. So what is the likelihood of "Blackbird" appearing in the next standards album?
    Gypsy jazzers play Isnt She Lovely (mind you even Barry Harris plays that one) Birelli does it, the Macaferri botherers get on it.

  23. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    So I reckon Stevie Wonder tunes are standards then
    The definition I find reasonable is : A song's likelihood of appearing in the next "X Plays the Standards" album. Which is not a definition but a way to gauge jazz communities' commonsensical view of jazz tunes.

    I shouldn't have said in the previous post that I agree with the definition of a "standard" as a song that can be called in a jam session. What I meant was, it's a more reasonable definition than only considering GASB tunes.

    In jam sessions, any tune can be called. Whether it's played or not is a matter of spontaneous consensus. If the sax player calls out a pop tune they want to play, I'm the guitar player, if I know the chords or can find them out quickly, I'd go along with that. I may lay out on the solo or play it. As long as there is a horn player who is willing to do the solo, the song gets played

  24. #248

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    No standards in 2021, just people playing music. Take it or leave it and try not to get left behind.

    Norwegian Wood is a blast to jam to.

    This is great, but old by now, looks like it was recorded on tape


  25. #249

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    Where are the New Jazz Standards?
    Apparently, the songs have to be both Jazz and a Standard. One is a Genre, the other is a Rating. What then, is Jazz?

    Cycling Back to New Orleans...
    The best Jazz Standards from the First Half Of The Twentieth Century have a strong Tonic-Dominant struggle; the swapping of Guide Tones: 7b of F7 lowers a semitone and becomes 3 of Bb7 and 3 of F7 lowers a semitone and becomes 7b of Bb7. Then this V7-I7 business is Back-Cycled from Bb to F to C to G to D to A to E to B to Gb...... This Dominant March is the First Principle of any Jazz Standard; Sweet Georgia Brown, Sunny Side Of The Street, Major Rhythm Changes 1625, Minor Rhythm Changes, Major 251(6), Minor 251(6), Sears-Roebuck Bridge, Montgomery-Ward Bridge, Ward-Montgomery Bridge, Back Door Sequence...

    Marching Along
    As the Tonic-Dominant March continues, the Guide Tones descend chromatically while the Roots progress in Cycle Order. The constant hammering of Dominant Seventh Chords can be delightful to Barber Shop Quartets, but Jazz demands the chords to be extended to Seventh Chords: M7 m7 7 o7 7+5 7-5 m7-5. Then, enlist their other four legged friends, the Added Sixths: M6 m6. Then alter them to M7+5 mM7. Extend them further to M79 m711 13-9.

    Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans?
    And their are quite a few other chord quality combinations stemming from the French Impressionists Ravel, Satie, et al... Creole Musicians in Early New Orleans were well versed in Classical Music. New Orleans, being ruled by Spain and then France, was deeply marked by these transitions of power and culture. You can predict which Diatonic Degrees in the Chord Progression of interest can be minor, major, diminished or augmented. In Jazz Harmony, you know that Jazz is not about Triads, but about Seventh Chords and the Upper Structures 9 11 13.

    Variations By Substitutions
    Blues is Blues, until it is cowed into Bird-Blues or Jazz-Blues by extensive 251'ing. The 12-Bar variations used in Jazz are filled with substitutions, as are all Jazz Standards. Jazz supports many chord substitutions. Not just Inversions, Extensions, and Alterations. ii-V-I's filled with 2m7-57's as a jazz style suspension where 4 leads to 3. The Substitutions of Common Upper Structures such as Dm6 = G79noroot = Bm7-5, CM7 = Em7 = Am7, Dm7 = FM7, G7 = Bm7-5. This works for extended chords, as well. CM79 = Em7... etc. The Diminished-Subs G7-9 = Bo7 = Do7 = Fo7 = Abo7, The Diminished-Dominant Subs G7 = Bb7 = Db7 = E7, then G7 = G#7 = B7 = D7 = F7

    Jerry Coker & Jamey Aebersold
    Then there are the numerous Modulation Schemes that can knock one out of the park, if done well. Every Jazz Musician, unless they have tenure, should bear a copy of Jerry Coker's little book, Improvising Jazz (1964), in their instrument case. It explains most of the above, and more, such as how to set up a jam session, and has 84 boiler-plate tunes, Jazz Standards, that illustrate the magic of Jazz Harmony very well. I've had my battered copy since 1970. Also, Jamey Aebersold Vol. No.76 How To Learn Tunes and Jerry Coker's Hearin' The Changes.

    Can Jazz Be Defined By It's Harmony? It's all about The Changes, But Attitude Helps
    Mix and match all of the above to get the basis for any Broadway Tune. Once you can analyse a Broadway tune, you know Jazz. Adding Swing is like throwing gasoline on the fire. Syncopation? That spice came from Ragtime. Throw it in. The Melody Line and Bass Line must fall into the Jazz Harmony outlined above. They will both jump out at you from the chords. It's all about The Changes. Jazz can be defined by its rhythm and harmony. The melody will follow if you have a trained ear and know the tradition from exposure to artists and knowledge of the Jazz Era.

    The Jazz Window... A View From A Moving Train
    I consider the Jazz Era, with the bulk of Jazz Standards, to be "The First Half Of The 20th Century". That's because of the seat I had on the train. You may be sitting in a different car. Of course there are many outliers; songs that came before and after. But look at a graph, and you will see the big picture, the Bell Curve, The Hump and its Tails. A picture is worth a thousand tunes.

    Jazz Is Not Dead... It's Just No Longer In The Media
    The word "Jazz" has become tired and misused and abused. I listen to the jazz radio station in Toronto, but they play things that I have trouble calling Jazz. Take the Apres-Ski Lounge, the Hipster Restaurants, even Malls and Elevators... Everything is Jazz now. Jazz Night! Go to the Jazz Festival...! Often Jazz is optional or as defined by artistics who are not musicians. They may have no Jazz at all!

    Jazz Camps
    In the end, there are many Jazz Camps... Compare Miles Davis' Bitches Brew to Jack Teagarden or Eddie Condon. Stanley Clark to Ray Brown. New Orleans Jazz to Jazz-Rock-Fusion. Free-Form Jazz Improv? Playin' The Changes vs Scales & Modes. The Jazz Harmony that dominated the First Half Of The 20th Century did not include Modal Harmony. Bebop was the fork in the Jazz Road.

    The Forgotten Art Of Being Specific
    So, we must be very specific in "Talking Jazz". Otherwise, argument ensues. The trouble stems from using the word "Jazz" to describe Jazz. The Jazz of Coleman Hawkins and Louis Armstrong has no other name. Early Jazz? Vintage Jazz? Not good enough. I suggest that when we say "Jazz", we should mean that Jazz Music using Traditional Jazz Harmony as outlined by Jerry Coker, Jerry Aebersold, et al, and used by the composer-lyricist teams, arrangers and artists that wrote the Authentic Jazz Standards before the 70's. Even decade differentiation can be confusing, because of Era Overlap.

    Relevant But Relative
    Is it the phrase, "Jazz Standard" that is not clear? Someone born in the 90's may think of Miles Davis' Bitches Brew album when they hear you say "Jazz Standard". Someone born in 1930 hears "Body And Soul". Both are right, of course, but they will be in disagreement.

    Retro-Jazz
    Jazz was a living music. It changed every week. Today, it barely lives, except in museums. Most everyone who exemplified Jazz is dead. We Jazz-Bo's today, are for the most part, hobbyists. Retro-Musicians. The Jazz Radio Stations are filled with retro-versions of Jazz Standards. Whether it is a Jazz Standard is relative to the age of the listener.

    What Jazz? Which Jazz?
    When a thread like this (and a good one, I might add - it's all grist for the mill, eh?) talks of Jazz Standards, it must be more specific. The Jazz of Jelly Roll Morton? Fats Waller? Art Tatum? Count Basie? Wes Montgomery? Miles Davis? Ornette Coleman? John McLaughlin?

    The Many Lives Of Jazz 1890-?
    From its mysterious origins in the gas lit parishes of New Orleans, a Gumbo of ideas from Africa, even Spain and France, and assembled by Creoles before 1890, to the head-wound of Bebop in 1940, the car-crash of the Beatles in 1964 and the strange new-life rejuvenation offered by the shock of electronics and the bubbling Bitches Brew in 1970, followed quickly by a seventies pop-jazz resurrection at the hand of the CTI Record Label and its mixed stable of Jazz artists and Classical arrangers. Today, Jazz is mostly non-existent, except for new recordings of Retro-Jazz. The only jazz musicians making a living today are those who teach "how they used to do it". Professors in Art Museums.

    May Your Jazz Go With You...
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 04-11-2021 at 02:32 PM.

  26. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    When a thread like this (and a good one, I might add - it's all grist for the mill, eh?) talks of Jazz Standards, it must be more specific. The Jazz of Jelly Roll Morton? Fats Waller? Art Tatum? Count Basie? Wes Montgomery? Miles Davis? Ornette Coleman? John McLaughlin?
    I thought we were talking about the songs that jazz musicians play and improvise upon, most of which are not themselves jazz.
    Last edited by Litterick; 04-11-2021 at 04:40 PM.