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  1. #1

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    Hey Everyone!

    sorry if this is in the wrong part of the forum, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster!

    I was wondering if it is considered wrong to jam on ALS. I'm very partial to resolution, and want to make it a part of my combo's setlist. Other than the obvious issue of living up to the greats, it seems to be taboo to cover parts of that record.

    thoughts?

    p.s. i'm sorry if this is a dumb question! still trying to learn the in's and out's!!
    “Hipness is not a state of mind, it’s a fact of life” - Cannonball Adderly

    Current jazz rig:
    Guitars -
    2017 Benedetto bravo in opulent brown
    2010 Benedetto bambino deluxe

    Pedals -

    Wampler tumnus
    Wampler faux spring
    Wampler ego

    Amp:
    henriksen blu





  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    These guys did it, I don’t see why you shouldn’t!


  4. #3
    The history of Jazz is taking a standard and turning it into a platform for improvisation - in a sense, to make it your own. I think if you want to play some Coltrane and use that as a launching pad for your own headspace, you are well within your rights as a jazz musician. Me? I can't touch anything by Coltrane, so I just dabble at the fringes, but if you have the imagination and creativity to take that song somewhere special, go for it. One musician's sacrilege is another musician's celebration.
    Jazz isn't dead. It just smells funny. FZ

  5. #4

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    I would think he would be appreciative.

  6. #5

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    Sacriligious? It's been a centrepiece of my religion for a long time. The melody for Resolution always gets me, and the whole section is probably my favourite part of the opus. I will admit to doing some possibly sacrilegious things to this part though... think of Dick Dale playing that melody. Probably no worse than what the Guys in White did to it though :) I saw them when they took it on the road.

    Firmly with the others. Have at it!

  7. #6

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    thank you guys so much for the feedback!

    It's always fantastic to come into a healthy community of like minded individuals!
    “Hipness is not a state of mind, it’s a fact of life” - Cannonball Adderly

    Current jazz rig:
    Guitars -
    2017 Benedetto bravo in opulent brown
    2010 Benedetto bambino deluxe

    Pedals -

    Wampler tumnus
    Wampler faux spring
    Wampler ego

    Amp:
    henriksen blu





  8. #7

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    I've played Resolution a few times. To be honest, I always feel it lacks something.

  9. #8

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    People get terribly precious about Coltrane and A Love Supreme . It's a piece of music . Play it as a polka . It won't kill anyone .

  10. #9

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    The thousands of jazz fans attending your gigs will be upset.

    But go ahead.
    "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates
    “Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.” - Alan Wilson Watts

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I've played Resolution a few times. To be honest, I always feel it lacks something.
    it’s not the same with no trane, just a replacement bus service.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    it’s not the same with no trane, just a replacement bus service.
    Lol

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    These guys did it, I don’t see why you shouldn’t!

    Yeah, and join those two apostates in hell!

  14. #13

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    I've fantasized about playing pro baseball and having Resolution as my walk up music.

  15. #14

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    I play blues and rock with some non-jazz musicians and one of the instrumental songs I have shown them is Equinox.

    The changes are basic and the pace is 'easy' and I have found this to be a nice jam session song. The only complaint I get is that we do the song in Db. (they wish it was in E or A). Often they tease me that they don't play that dang jazz music, and I have to remind them; hey, you just did, that song was written by John Coltrane; one of the masters of jazz!

    PS: most of the time these are acrostic guitar jams. My inspiration for playing the song came from this:


  16. #15

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    Seems to lack something when I play it too. Not only trane, but there's a certain tynerism, jonesology and garrisonism missing as well. Pretty tough to overcome.

  17. #16

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    It is not something I play with any regularity, and I have never had anyone request it. I can think of many other things I would rather hear so clearly not playing the whole thing adds up to me.
    specializing in repair and setup, does your guitar play like it should?

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sjajazz View Post
    Hey Everyone!
    I was wondering if it is considered wrong to jam on ALS. I'm very partial to resolution, and want to make it a part of my combo's setlist. Other than the obvious issue of living up to the greats, it seems to be taboo to cover parts of that record.
    I'm not sure it's taboo, there's also a Branford Marsalis Quartet recording of A Love Supreme. I'm not sure there is a conscious reason no one plays these tunes, like, no one plays "Flamenco Sketches" or a large portion of Duke Ellington's compositions either, and, it's ok. Most of the "written" music on "A Love Supreme" is relatively simple and as such, the vibe and interaction are a lot more important, and it's not great jam session material kinda for that reason. I personally can't imagine this tune sounding good without the rhythm section essentially playing similarly to garrison/tyner/jones, and that's a hell of a cross to bear.

  19. #18

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    The first time I heard Resolution it was this version. Didn't strike me as sagrilegious then and it doesn't now.

  20. #19

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    You could ask ... The Church of John Coltrane!



    Yes, it's for real: Saint John Coltrane African Orthodox Church – San Francisco, California
    - Atlas Obscura
    Build bridges, not walls.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sjajazz View Post
    Hey Everyone!

    sorry if this is in the wrong part of the forum, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster!

    I was wondering if it is considered wrong to jam on ALS. I'm very partial to resolution, and want to make it a part of my combo's setlist. Other than the obvious issue of living up to the greats, it seems to be taboo to cover parts of that record.

    thoughts?

    p.s. i'm sorry if this is a dumb question! still trying to learn the in's and out's!!

    Coltrane was a genius, one of my biggest heroes, I have incredible respect for him.
    But I think if someone wants to play his music, why not? Just do it!

    Someone saying one shouldn't be allowed to play Coltranes music is just snobbery nonsense.
    Last edited by greveost; 04-07-2019 at 04:32 AM.
    Playing a solo over my friends song Cookie and Cream, Amiga Wave

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJHqt_lpyKM

    Jammin over Long ago and far away

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kc_G_MuaIg

  22. #21

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    Nothing is true.
    Everything is permitted.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles View Post
    You could ask ... The Church of John Coltrane!



    Yes, it's for real: Saint John Coltrane African Orthodox Church – San Francisco, California
    - Atlas Obscura

    Dang it, that was going to be my exact post, right down to the link. :0

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    I play blues and rock with some non-jazz musicians and one of the instrumental songs I have shown them is Equinox.

    The changes are basic and the pace is 'easy' and I have found this to be a nice jam session song. The only complaint I get is that we do the song in Db. (they wish it was in E or A). Often they tease me that they don't play that dang jazz music, and I have to remind them; hey, you just did, that song was written by John Coltrane; one of the masters of jazz!

    PS: most of the time these are acrostic guitar jams.
    This would be even more realistic if they complained it wasn't in C#.

  25. #24

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    This thread brings to mind the often disparaged and even bullied Kenny G.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkwaters View Post
    Nothing is true.
    Everything is permitted.
    "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law?"
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    This thread brings to mind the often disparaged and even bullied Kenny G.
    He didn't check with us before making a career move and look how it worked out for him.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I've played Resolution a few times. To be honest, I always feel it lacks something.

    you have to make it your resolution!!

    cheers

  29. #28

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    Even the U.S. Navy has had a go at it (pretty good version actually!)


  30. #29

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    It depends much on which Gods you adore.

  31. #30

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    I’m just gonna weigh in with what I expect might be a contentious opinion .... here goes

    I think it’s quite easy sometimes to get confused about what you like about a track when it turns you on and you want to play that music. Is it the song or the performance?

    A lot of great jazz has been played on comparatively slight compositions.

    When you look at a lot of the heads on A Love Supreme it seems to me that the sheer intensity and musicianship of the Trane Quartet does most of the heavy lifting. That’s not to say I think the writing is bad - far from it, it’s exactly enough to facilitate one of the greatest musical adventures of all time for those exact musicians.

    For me I don’t have the skills to play these apparently simple songs well for starters, let alone be THOSE guys lol.

    Further, playing these tunes in a jazz gig context can run the risk of sounding a bit ‘tribute band’ - something we see a lot here in London where most of the straightahead gigs seem to be people playing classic albums. This to me is a little at odds with the original spirit of the music, but you can’t blame musicians who love that music, or the promoters who want a full club. In fact many players I’ve spoken to who do this see it as a necessary compromise rather than something they really want to do.

    I’m not saying it’s impossible to do your own thing with that music even in that type of tribute project, but you have to get past the iconic aspect of the original performance. This is obviously not so much of an issue with a well worn standard song like My One and Only Love because the song is not irrevocably tied to this or that recording. Jazz originals that have become jazz standards such as those by Coltrane, Wayne Shorter etc have this baggage attached to them. You can still do stuff with them of course, but you have do more work.

    This comes for me, a working player who is keen to try and do something with music, which is not everyone’s objective at all; in terms of jams, sure why not? Play whatever you want to and have fun.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    It depends much on which Gods you adore.
    Bacchus obviously. *hic*

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I’m just gonna weigh in with what I expect might be a contentious opinion .... here goes

    I think it’s quite easy sometimes to get confused about what you like about a track when it turns you on and you want to play that music. Is it the song or the performance?

    A lot of great jazz has been played on comparatively slight compositions.

    When you look at a lot of the heads on A Love Supreme it seems to me that the sheer intensity and musicianship of the Trane Quartet does most of the heavy lifting. That’s not to say I think the writing is bad - far from it, it’s exactly enough to facilitate one of the greatest musical adventures of all time for those exact musicians.

    For me I don’t have the skills to play these apparently simple songs well for starters, let alone be THOSE guys lol.

    Further, playing these tunes in a jazz gig context can run the risk of sounding a bit ‘tribute band’ - something we see a lot here in London where most of the straightahead gigs seem to be people playing classic albums. This to me is a little at odds with the original spirit of the music, but you can’t blame musicians who love that music, or the promoters who want a full club. In fact many players I’ve spoken to who do this see it as a necessary compromise rather than something they really want to do.

    I’m not saying it’s impossible to do your own thing with that music even in that type of tribute project, but you have to get past the iconic aspect of the original performance. This is obviously not so much of an issue with a well worn standard song like My One and Only Love because the song is not irrevocably tied to this or that recording. Jazz originals that have become jazz standards such as those by Coltrane, Wayne Shorter etc have this baggage attached to them. You can still do stuff with them of course, but you have do more work.

    This comes for me, a working player who is keen to try and do something with music, which is not everyone’s objective at all; in terms of jams, sure why not? Play whatever you want to and have fun.
    To some degree any great player is a world in his self.

    But Trane is one of the most unconventional players.
    He was my greatest impression in jazz in early years. He is still probably the closest jazz player to me in general, not that I would play excatly like that, I mean more aestetics, attitude, understanding of life and music that I can hear in his playing.


    There is almost nothing you can do with that without being Trane))) If I can say so. His compositions (if we treat them as standards) are mostly directions...
    like you ask someone the way and he points 'this way' and that's it.. no roadmap, no pitstops, no guides... just that straight intense look in the eyes and gesture: this way (even 'maybe this way')..

    His music has very interesting 'border-line' quality..
    He is extremely passionate but at the same time intelligent with great diginity.
    He is breaking every barrier but never tactless or blatant
    he is extremely intensive but at the same time he is never imposing, he always shows that you are the personality that may have a personal opinion.

    He is always on border of everything.
    And he is there with the first note, no preparations.

    Actually he looks the same, he looks as if he is all at the very surface of his physical body, his eyes are not eys, they are just he.

    There is nothing sacreligious in playing his music, but else who can be as powerful and straightforward and humble and delicate at a time?

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    To some degree any great player is a world in his self.

    But Trane is one of the most unconventional players.
    He was my greatest impression in jazz in early years. He is still probably the closest jazz player to me in general, not that I would play excatly like that, I mean more aestetics, attitude, understanding of life and music that I can hear in his playing.


    There is almost nothing you can do with that without being Trane))) If I can say so. His compositions (if we treat them as standards) are mostly directions...
    like you ask someone the way and he points 'this way' and that's it.. no roadmap, no pitstops, no guides... just that straight intense look in the eyes and gesture: this way (even 'maybe this way')..

    His music has very interesting 'border-line' quality..
    He is extremely passionate but at the same time intelligent with great diginity.
    He is breaking every barrier but never tactless or blatant
    he is extremely intensive but at the same time he is never imposing, he always shows that you are the personality that may have a personal opinion.

    He is always on border of everything.
    And he is there with the first note, no preparations.

    Actually he looks the same, he looks as if he is all at the very surface of his physical body, his eyes are not eys, they are just he.

    There is nothing sacreligious in playing his music, but else who can be as powerful and straightforward and humble and delicate at a time?
    It's a big ask.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    It's a big ask.
    I know.

  36. #35

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    I say go for blasphemy. It's the original victimless crime.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Even the U.S. Navy has had a go at it (pretty good version actually!)

    I'm a bit impressed by that performance and the arrangement. Hats off to the arranger and the soloists:

    arr. by Senior Chief Musician Steve Williams
    featuring (in solo order):
    Chief Musician Peter Revell (bass)
    Master Chief Musician Phil Burlin (tenor saxophone)
    Musician 1st Class Dan LaMaestra (piano)
    Musician 1st Class Kevin McDonald (drum set)