The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi all,

    this is my first post here. I'm quite new to the Jazz guitar (coming from a rock background) and I stumbled upon this tune. I know it's not a classic jazz standard, but I'd like to have some opinions on how to play over these chords.

    My feeling is just pentatonic but I know there's something more out there for this tune for sure .

    Thanks for any info!

    Why don't you do right-hl_dds_0000000000221128-png

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    if I was to name one scale, it would be D harmonic minor, with addition of natural B.

  4. #3

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    I think my favorite version of this tune (and I'm not being sarcastic) was Jessica Rabbit in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

  5. #4
    Thanks for the answers. I like the movie version too, even more than the original. I find that this tune works better with a sexy mood than with a fast paced, foot-tapping one.
    I wish there were more versions of this out there.

  6. #5

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    I'm wondering about the Dm6 and Bm7b5 chords indicated here: they're the same notes! (Dm6 = D F A B; Bm7b5 = B D F A)

    I can see if if one needs that bass line root movement (D to B) but it didn't grab me when I tried it. Am I missing something?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I'm wondering about the Dm6 and Bm7b5 chords indicated here: they're the same notes! (Dm6 = D F A B; Bm7b5 = B D F A)

    I can see if if one needs that bass line root movement (D to B) but it didn't grab me when I tried it. Am I missing something?
    It's a minor 1-6-2-5 with a tritone sub. I think the bass line just solidifies that pattern.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I'm wondering about the Dm6 and Bm7b5 chords indicated here: they're the same notes! (Dm6 = D F A B; Bm7b5 = B D F A)

    I can see if if one needs that bass line root movement (D to B) but it didn't grab me when I tried it. Am I missing something?
    The first four chords in the chart are a I VI II V cycle in a minor key, with a tritone sub in place of the II. Repeated I VI II V cycles can be pretty boring. The tritone sub spices it up by introducing notes outside the key.
    If the key were major instead, the first two chords might be Dmaj6 Bmin7. They also have the same notes; i.e., are the same chord with a different voicing. Dmaj7 Bmin7 sounds a little more interesting, since the two chords now have a different note.
    So, taking that idea back to the minor key, what if we replace Dmin6 with Dmin/maj7? Or just start with Dmin triad so the Bm7b5 introduces a new note?
    Last edited by KirkP; 02-16-2018 at 12:26 PM.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I'm wondering about the Dm6 and Bm7b5 chords indicated here: they're the same notes! (Dm6 = D F A B; Bm7b5 = B D F A)

    I can see if if one needs that bass line root movement (D to B) but it didn't grab me when I tried it. Am I missing something?
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    It's a minor 1-6-2-5 with a tritone sub. I think the bass line just solidifies that pattern.

    That Bm7b5 caught my eye too .. I've always heard the descending bassline hitting a C there and not a B ... at least in the jessica rabbit version

  10. #9

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    Er... thank you to the person who liked my long post, now deleted. I hope Get Ready never saw it. I misread Bminor7b5 as B7b5 and spent half the page announcing what a lot of nonsense it was... :-)

    But, yes, I think Dm6 to Bm7b5 is a bit odd regardless of the explanation too, which is maybe why I misread it. Dm - Dm/C would be a lot stronger. If more cliched.

    But a 1-6-2-5 in D harmonic is Dm - Bb - Em7b5 - A7.

    In D melodic it becomes a Bbm7b5 so I don't see what that Bm7b5 is doing there.

    Can you have a m7b5 as a tritone sub? Of what? F something?

    Or am I also missing something?

  11. #10
    Bm7b5 and Dm6 are inversions of the same chord. No handwringing or theoretical justification required.

    BTW a lot of the time bassline itself is not as important as the implied lead line. In this case, the easiest way to notate that is with the bassline.

  12. #11

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    Oh, I get all that, I just don't like the sound of the bass B, even as Dm6/B.

    But it's not a 1625, it's a 1125. And I see no tritone, but anyway. Now I can go back to what I wanted to say to Get Ready, if he's still around

  13. #12

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    The OP also asked about scales for soloing. I’m old fashioned, so on a basic minor tune like this I tend to think classical melodic minor (natural 6th and 7th when ascending and flatted when descending). The OP’s pentatonic notes are in there, but there are so many more possibilities.
    Melodic Minor Scales

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    But it's not a 1625, it's a 1125. And I see no tritone, but anyway. Now I can go back to what I wanted to say to Get Ready, if he's still around
    The II is Eb7. Its tritone sub is Bb7. The tritone sub works because it includes the 3rd & 7th of the original chord.

  15. #14

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    G37-R34DY

    I think the main point is that most of these tunes are really very simple. At least they probably start simple and then get embellished.

    The thing with jazz tunes is they tend to be presented already embellished, hence so much trepidation for the learner - and sometimes not the learner too.

    Take a simple example like Rhythm Changes. Basically it's just the good old sequence:

    C Am Dm G7
    C Am Dm G7
    C C7 F Fm
    C G7 C (G7)

    But look what they've done with it! Horn players can play it in C but, as they use Bb instruments, us poor guitarists have to play between the dots. So it's in Bb for a start. And it's become:

    BbM7 G7b9 Cm7 F7
    Dm7 G7b9 Cm7 F7
    Fm7 Bb7 EbM7 Ebm6
    Dm7 G7b9 Cm7 F7

    ... or a lot worse than that sometimes.

    So 'Do Right' probably started life as a very basic minor blues:

    Dm - % - % - %
    Gm - % - Dm - %
    A7 - % - Dm - (A7)

    Then there's old blues player trick of breaking up the Dm with its V (A7):


    Dm - Dm/A7 - % - %
    Gm - % - Dm/A7 - Dm
    A7 - % - Dm - (A7)

    Then they might put a D7 on bar 4 to go to the Gm:

    Dm - Dm/A7 - % - D7
    Gm - % - Dm/A7 - Dm
    A7 - % - Dm - (A7)

    Then they can slide from Bb7 into the A7 in the last line for a more bluesy effect:

    Dm - Dm/A7 - % - D7
    Gm - % - Dm/A7 - Dm
    A7 - Bb7/A7 - Dm - (A7)

    Personally I'd break up the Gm too (but that's my own preference):

    Dm - Dm/A7 - % - D7
    Gm/GmM7 - Gm7/Gm6 - Dm/A7 - Dm
    A7 - Bb7/A7 - Dm - (A7)

    On your lead sheet, of course, they've turned the Dm into a Dm6, presumably for a mood effect. And changed the bass to the B presumably to get a run-down B-Bb-A.

    (But I think it sucks, personally; I'd rather have no change or a C there. However...)

    And they've used that recurring sequence throughout the song, as you know from the chart.

    *****

    So you're presented with these strange chords and, naturally, want to know what to play over them. Hence your thread. What I'm saying is simplify it, if you can see how it's derived. And play over that. Being a blues it'll almost certainly work. If not, you can just change something here and there.

    You've got a lot of choices, theoretically: D pentatonic, D harmonic, D melodic, D dorian (F major), D blues. So you've got the basic Dm sound but a choice of Bb and B natural. Also C# and C natural.

    But you play what sounds right to you. You don't say 'I'm only going to use one scale' like the pentatonic or melodic. It'll stop you producing an effective and interesting solo. Use whatever sounds good. Which means: experiment, play with it.

    Once you've got something simple that works then, maybe, you can embellish it with runs, fills, altered sounds, what you like. The point is: always go from simple to more complex. Don't start with complex and then get stuck!
    Last edited by ragman1; 02-16-2018 at 07:43 PM.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP
    The II is Eb7. Its tritone sub is Bb7. The tritone sub works because it includes the 3rd & 7th of the original chord.
    Eb7 in which key? Not Dm, natural, harmonic or melodic. In fact, I don't think a dom7 is the 2 chord in any known key.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    That Bm7b5 caught my eye too .. I've always heard the descending bassline hitting a C there and not a B ... at least in the jessica rabbit version
    Duke Robillard does it that way too: Dm Dm7/C Bb7 A7. That's pretty much how I play it, though when singing, I leave the second chord out (I don't do this as a four-to-the-bar comp, so it's just Dm7 twice--on 1 and 3) then Bb7 and A7.


    I really like this tune and enjoy playing it. But since I play it alone, I don't worry about soloing---I just play the melody and a few fills, then sing another verse. Plus, I have an intro I nicked from Herb Ellis, so it's long enough. But in light of this discussion, I'll probably play it over the weekend and "watch what happens."

    Here's a lesser known version of the tune from 1950. This is a small-group session with Dave Barbour (-Peggy's husband for a time) on guitar. (I love the version Peggy Lee did with Benny Goodman in the early '40s too.)


  18. #17

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    C. Yeah!

    And the guitar on this is fairly sublime. He's doing something very clever with the scales. And the chords, come to that.


  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    ... This is a small-group session with Dave Barbour (-Peggy's husband for a time) on guitar. (I love the version Peggy Lee did with Benny Goodman in the early '40s too.)

    Didn't someone on this forum wind up with this guitar a few months back?

  20. #19
    I don't think B natural sounds crazy or anything. Who cares ? Listen to recordings. Play it like you want.

    As far as I can tell, real book versions always default to calling a chord a 7th, unless there's a conflict with the melody, in which case they call it a 6th. In this example, there is a B natural in the melody. So, 6th...

    I would assume there is also probably some basis in an original recording somewhere, but maybe some fascist wrote the chart and just arbitrarily did what they wanted. Again, who cares?

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I don't think B natural sounds crazy or anything. Who cares ? Listen to recordings. Play it like you want.

    As far as I can tell, real book versions always default to calling a chord a 7th, unless there's a conflict with the melody, in which case they call it a 6th. In this example, there is a B natural in the melody. So, 6th...

    I would assume there is also probably some basis in an original recording somewhere, but maybe some fascist wrote the chart and just arbitrarily did what they wanted. Again, who cares?
    Well, I think there's a saying that goes 'If a thing's worth doing it's worth doing well'. As we're doing this I suppose I care if it's right or not. I don't want to be sloppy or talk (or play) nonsense. To that extent I care, if you want to put it that way. But it's not an emotional obsession or something!

    I like your old recording idea - although the use of the natural B in the melody as written in that chart is just a typical blues song sound. It wouldn't be necessary to mould the chords round it. Although, as you say, someone may have done that, who knows?

    And, open to correction, I haven't yet heard any of the singers here sing it. At least not clearly, and not such that it conflicted with the chords, the C sound in particular - which is where the B sound appears.

    But we've got away somewhat from the OP's bewilderment about what to play...

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Eb7 in which key? Not Dm, natural, harmonic or melodic. In fact, I don't think a dom7 is the 2 chord in any known key.
    I was thinking tritone of E7. Anyway, not really a tritone. I'll accept that. It's what we plebes call those Neapolitan whaty whaty's. Basically, quacks like one though...

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    In fact, I don't think a dom7 is the 2 chord in any known key.
    Ok. But the bVI isn't dom7 in any of the three minors either.

    It's worth pointing out, that in talking about jazz progressions, there's a distinctive between strict analysis and more casual naming of common chord patterns in relation to the overall key.

    Listened to a couple of non vocal versions. Apparently, the III chord is a thing for the second chord as well.

  23. #22

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    It's actually quite interesting, all this, if you don't let it get to you. I don't know, one little blues song. Sheesh.

    Kansas Joe McCoy was one of those crackly-recording blues singers in the old style. Used a resonator guitar and his brother Joel played the piano.



    Anyway, apparently Do Right started life as this and was then rewritten:



    There's also this lesson vid by a piano player. He's not speaking English but watch his hands. The right hand's playing Dm but with a B on the bottom. The bass just does a normal riff.



    Anyway, all very interesting... there's no one way to do it.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    . But the bVI isn't dom7 in any of the three minors either.
    Where did b6 come from? 6 in Dm is Bb, 5 is A... there's no b6. Did you mean something else?

    Listened to a couple of non vocal versions. Apparently, the III chord is a thing for the second chord as well.
    Well, the 3 is F so that (or F6) would give the C bass. In fact at least one version has the run-down Dm/DmM7 - Dm7/Dm6 with the descending bass line D/C# - C/B in it. I thought of doing that myself, quite effective. But really the harmony should be an A7 where the B comes, so I didn't.

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Where did b6 come from? 6 in Dm is Bb, 5 is A... there's no b6. Did you mean something else?
    I meant 6th

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Well, the 3 is F so that (or F6) would give the C bass.
    No. it was a bass walk up. "Motion on the I" is the common denominator?.... I - V

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I meant 6th
    Ok, so the 6 is Bb and the tritone is E. But the Bb is a major chord and the 'actual' E is the 2 and a minor chord.

    Major chords aren't usually tritoned. But let's say in jazz we can do anything we like and pretend it's a dominant. Then, sure we can tritone it and put E7 where the Bb was.

    The sequence in the chart is Dm6/Bm7b5 - Bb7/A7. So you're saying that could be Dm6/Bm7b5 - E7/A7. Yes, it could be. That works musically, certainly.

    But I'm not sure where all this has come from. The Bb7 isn't really in question - that's just the nice blues sound - it's the Bm7b5 that we're concerned with. It's that chord that most versions are ignoring, changing, or whatever.

    it was a bass walk up.
    I don't understand this either. In nearly all these versions - maybe definitely all - the bass is going down! -- D-C-Bb-A-D -- and most effective it is in a minor blues like this.

    Sorry, I'm trying to make sense of all this but I admit to some confusion. What are we trying to do or understand?