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I'm looking at different music and the chords are all over the place. Much different from version to version. The one in the Realbook isn't bad. BIAB version isn't very good to my ears. One version I came across was very good but a little more complicated than the others.
It the song isn't worked out before hand or if everyone isn't on the same page, literally, isn't this a potential train wreck?
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07-23-2017 06:41 PM
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This subject may have come up before. Not sure.
Originally Posted by M-ster
Yes.
To be on the safe side I'll stick with the RealBook version.
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Really, if you're interested in digging in, you'll want to suss out some different recorded versions to see what suits. Originally Posted by Stevebol
There are variations in the way Monk performed it, and it's his tune, so check those. I would also suggest Wes' version as well as Pat Martino. Seems like there's a YouTube video of George Benson and McCoy Tyner from a television appearance, too.
It's interesting to observe the evolution of a jazz staple such as this.
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It goes to C Min7b5 after the E b minor in bar 5---NOT Ab7. Db 13-Cb 13-F Min 7 b5-Bb7#5 are the changes to the last bar of the bridge.
Wes didn't play Monk's changes w/the trio, though the solo is great. He played closer to Monk's original on the Jazz 625 show in England, and on Echoes of Indiana Avenue.
Even the greats get it wrong---and everyone slavishly copies them, of course. That's how misinformation gets passed around. Always go to the source. If you DO want to reharmonize, that gives you license...
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The real book changes are terrible. I just looked at the PDF I have of the original real book, it's awful. For example:
- the second bar of "A" is Cm7b5 Ab-7 Db7.
- second from last bar of the "A" section starts on a Cm7b5 (which monk would have called Ebm/C), not B7.
- First bar of bridge is Cm7b5 - B7, not F7.
- second ending of A does not resolve to Ebm, it's Ebmaj6. the whole tune resolves to Ebmaj6. I can't fault the people that wrote the real book, I'm sure they were in college and doing their best, but, the whole thing of the tune is that it goes from minor to major.
- second half of the bridge does not go to Gbmaj7, WTF.
There are a lot of other mistakes. Learn from Monk's original recordings, the way he taught all his band members his music. You'll improve your ears, learn the right changes, and your mistakes will be your own!
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This is from the Realbook I'm using;
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Gotta admit: Not bad for the Real Book... Originally Posted by Stevebol
This is from the Realbook I'm using;
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I've dabbled with it using Wes' chord changes - lots of fun to play.
So anybody care to post the original progression?
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I'll participate, but can't contribute till I'm home (later).
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https://www.learnjazzstandards.com/w...nstruments.pdf
These are pretty close to Monk's changes (or at least some versions). When people refer to the "Realbook changes," they often mean what's in the (illegal) 5th Edition. These are quite different.
John
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yeah, these are way better than the original, illegal Real Book change. The version I was lambasting has this: Originally Posted by fasstrack
Looks like the real book has improved significantly since I used it!
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That's close to what came up in BIAB. Originally Posted by pcsanwald
yeah, these are way better than the original, illegal Real Book change. The version I was lambasting has this:
Looks like the real book has improved significantly since I used it!
Now what?
If you decide to play the song with people you don't know what are the chances you'll be playing the same chords?
Seems pretty slim to me. I really like the song but maybe it's not worth spending a great deal of time on for a group situation unless you take the time to get on the same page.
I took the changes from my Realbook and put them in BIAB so for now I'll go with that because I want to work on this tune.
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Agree 100% with what you say here, Steve. I make charts to Monk tunes that I like to play, and if someone calls a Monk tune on a gig I'm not leading, I usually respectfully decline and ask to play something different, unless everyone knows the tune cold. Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Have to make a choice here... Originally Posted by fasstrack
I'll go with this one. I want to play along (I rarely if ever play along to backing tracks, but I should) to something so I put the Realbook changes in BIAB.
The first measure chords are odd. IDK. The rest is OK.
That's my story and I'm sticking with it.Last edited by Stevebol; 07-25-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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Here's the iReal Book version - it is possible to edit it to your own liking, and have the backing track play your changes. Seems to have an eight-bar intro...
Last edited by Rob MacKillop; 07-26-2017 at 03:08 AM.
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That 8-bar intro is Dizzy's intro---and is ALWAYS used (Miles used similar changes, but not Dizzy's melody)---except by Monk (not all the time, anyway), which is a problem if you want to be true to the composer. But the last 2 bars are wrong here: It stays on Eb Minor (Eb Min 6, actually) until a Bb 7----or F Min 7 b5/Bb 7---on the last 2 beats of the last measure. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Here's the iReal Book version - it is possible to edit it to your own liking, and have the backing track play your changes. Seems to have an eight-bar intro...
The 'half-diminished' appellation was NOT used by the bebop guys. They consider it a minor 6 chord w/the 6 in the bass. Dizzy has spoken about this a lot. They were thinking voice-leading. The root position minor 6th chord is probably as old as jazz itself. Go back and listen to the earliest recordings and you will find it. It really came into play in Kansas City in the 30s and early 40s: Mc Shann used it in Sepia Bounce (if that's the correct title), featuring one of the first official recorded solos by Charlie Parker. Listen to Charlie Christian go nuts w/it on Swing to Bop (really Topsy), or Pres in many recordings w/Basie.
The bebop guys just built on what was there before, like true innovators do. FF a few years to Benny Golson: those chords really get a workout (and a fresh perspective) on Whisper Not, Along Came Betty, Out of the Past, Killer Joe (the bridge) and even Blues March.
Progress...Last edited by fasstrack; 07-27-2017 at 07:35 PM.
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Bar 6 of that version is particularly bad due to the Ebmin7. The b7 of Ebmin7 (Db) clashes with the correct bass note C. If you change that chord to an Ebmin triad all is well, since the Ebmin triad is contained in Cmin7b5. Originally Posted by pcsanwald
yeah, these are way better than the original, illegal Real Book change. The version I was lambasting has this:
Looks like the real book has improved significantly since I used it!
(Edit: There is a Db in the melody, but it's a passing chromatic so I wouldn't consider it to be part of the chord.)
I think the Ab7 is acceptable as a sub for the last two beats since three notes of Ab7 are in the Cmin7b5 chord and the remaining note A is the b6 of C, which works well against a Cmin7b5 chord.Last edited by KirkP; 08-07-2017 at 01:28 PM.
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