Billie's Bounce Advice

[morroben]

Hello folks...I've been taking lessons for a few months now. We have a few songs that we've been working on. I work on the chords, the melody, and the changes...the changes being whatever we're doing that week. Arpeggios, specific scales over specific chords etc.

So we started with Autumn Leaves and Blue Bossa, and later added I Could Write a Book. The chords and melody are never too tough. It's working on the changes that gives me trouble and is basically the reason I'm doing the lessons in the first place.

Well this week we decided to add a blues, since we didn't have one on the list. My teacher suggested Billie's Bounce and I thought nothing of it. Well, I'm having a hell of a time trying to get the melody down on this tune.

I guess it's a timing thing. Does anyone have any advice or know of any good video lessons that slow it down and walk you through? I was really hoping to have the melody worked out before next lesson so we can work on on other things.

[coolvinny]

Advice? Learn it by ear. Get yourself the Amazing Slow-Downer or Transcribe (both software) and learn it by ear, phrase by phrase.

I like the George Benson version in general and for learning purposes.

[rahsaan]

Don't know of any lessons, but I'd suggest getting a recording and listening to it lots, and singing the melody - it's pretty short and you'll probably get the rhythms down easier by ear. You can slow things down on youtube, or use a program like audacity or transcribe!. Taking the music bar by bar and counting/clapping is a good idea, easier if you have listened/sung along first

[Jonathan0996]

I'm with Vinny on this. Slow it down.

Also, go on YouTube and listen to a bunch of versions. Over and over again. You've gotta get it in your head before you can get it under your fingers.

[lawson-stone]

Jimmy Raney has a splendid performance of Billies Bounce.

And this:

[oldane]

My teacher suggested Billie's Bounce and I thought nothing of it. Well, I'm having a hell of a time trying to get the melody down on this tune.
I guess it's a timing thing.......

Yes. There sure are timing intricacies in Parkers original recording of it. One often hears it played with more straight rhythmics but IMHO it makes it "square" and stiff where Parkers version has a wonderful rhythmic plasticity. Parkers music was as much about rhythmic accents, syncopations and subtleties as about advanced harmony. As others have said, learn it by ear from the original 1945 Parker record.

Don't dispair if you don't get it right away. As can be heard on the original 1945 Parker recording, Miles Davis also seemed to struggle with it.

[Little Jay]

I like the George Benson version in general and for learning purposes.

Except that his version is slightly different of the original and sax and horn players always play the original, so if you play unison with a sax players it always looks you missed some notes or play it wrong......

I'd recommend the original. Timing is everything! Sing it before you play it. You know YouTube plays at half speed and even 25% nowadays? Soooo easy.....

[PMB]

Except that his version is slightly different of the original and sax and horn players always play the original, so if you play unison with a sax players it always looks you missed some notes or play it wrong......

I'd recommend the original. Timing is everything! Sing it before you play it. You know YouTube plays at half speed and even 25% nowadays? Soooo easy.....

Benson's version is great but Little Jay's right about the notes. GB plays E naturals rather than E flats in bar 6 and just about every one misses the both the G natural and E flat in bar 1.

Here's my transcription of the head with the counter-line and fingerings. I'll usually spend a fair bit of time working out places to play phrases that allow both comfort and flow. You may prefer other positions and fingerings entirely. In fact, a lot of guys play this and many other Parker tunes down the octave as the optimum range of the alto sax sits pretty high up on the guitar neck.

[Jonah]

bop heads it is where fingering is really important...

you can play American Songbook standards more or less with the fingering you're used to... usually there's enough space and time to work it out without thinking much about fingering.

But with bop heads it is really important to focus on fingering to achieve better phrasing and timing

[morroben]

Thanks guys! I had no idea that youtube would slow things down. That's a pretty handy feature.
And PMB, that chart will be extremely helpful. I was trying to play this in a different position, though not an octave down, and I think I might have been making things harder on myself.
I have to get through some calculus homework this morning (back to school at 40) and then I'll put in some time on this tune. Thanks for all of the good advice.

[mrblues]

I think You have problem with playing the melody just because it doesnt begin with the harmony together, but it does with an eighth note, an upbeat before the harmony starts. IF You count in before the melody starts, You can pay attention to the last quarter note, there You can play that eighth note OR You can just ignore it in the beginning of Your practice and start with the melody together with the harmony. There You start with a B note instead of C. And when it all goes well, You can go back to the beginning of the song and experiment with that eighth note.

Best way is I think, when You can play the melody from sheet in tempo, just play the song in youtube and play the melody along with the soloist.

cheers,

MrBlues

[Noah D'Innocenzo]

I remember having to learn this tune for my first All-County jazz audition and it was a pup! Especially since I was just starting out with jazz at that time, just like you. But the general consensus here is on point.

-listen to it a lot (like, way more than you want to.)
-sing with it a lot (again, way more than you want to.)
-bring it to the guitar.

The last step is easy once you've heard it at least 100 times and have sung to it a lot as well. By then, you don't even really need the record. I DON'T recommend using PMB's transcription. Not because it's bad but because you're trying to learn a language and language is aural and not done through the eyes. You'll learn it on paper but believe me, it won't stick like getting it off with your ears.

Good luck!

[mr. beaumont]

Great advice above.

It's that classic Charlie Parker hip rhythmic stuff. And while it's just a blues harmonically, it doesn't follow a blues cliche pattern in the melody, which makes it extra cool.

Oscar Brown Jr. has a vocal version out there (someone put words to it)...Sometimes tunes with trick syncopation can be picked up easier if the notes are words and syllables, at least for me. The only way I could get "Spain" by ear was through Al Jarreau.

[goldenwave77]

I play this down close to the nut (frets 1-3). The open strings come in handy for sweeping.

[coolvinny]

Except that his version is slightly different of the original and sax and horn players always play the original, so if you play unison with a sax players it always looks you missed some notes or play it wrong......

I'd recommend the original. Timing is everything! Sing it before you play it. You know YouTube plays at half speed and even 25% nowadays? Soooo easy.....

Thanks for the head's up! I will transcribe more versions. I learned it in a hurry for a gig last summer so I just copped the one version. But, having said that, I've had no problem playing it with other people. Missed notes don't usually cause problems as long as the "big picture" rhythm is solid and everyone is confident that they know the tune - the bigger issue is when people haven't internalized the rhythm and key resolution / anticipation points.

edit: just listened to original version. They play 8th notes rather than the 8th note triplet in bar 8. Hmm. I think the 8th note triplet is hipper (and harder to play). Also John Coltrane plays it the same as Benson.

The point is: learn it by ear. Learning by ear pretty much guarantees you'll never forget how to play it AND will give you the kind of deep learning that will let you play it at different tempos and feels or with slightly different note or rhythmic variations when playing with other people. I find that to be true of all tunes. And the more tunes you know, the easier and deeper you learn additional tunes by ear. It's amazing really.

[PMB]

I remember having to learn this tune for my first All-County jazz audition and it was a pup! Especially since I was just starting out with jazz at that time, just like you. But the general consensus here is on point.

-listen to it a lot (like, way more than you want to.)
-sing with it a lot (again, way more than you want to.)
-bring it to the guitar.

The last step is easy once you've heard it at least 100 times and have sung to it a lot as well. By then, you don't even really need the record. I DON'T recommend using PMB's transcription. Not because it's bad but because you're trying to learn a language and language is aural and not done through the eyes. You'll learn it on paper but believe me, it won't stick like getting it off with your ears.

Good luck!

Strangely enough, I pretty much agree with you, Noah! After all, I went through that same process to write my transcription. I only offered it here as the OP had already worked on the melody and seemed to be looking for alternative ways to get it onto the fretboard. I sometimes find it helpful to check other people's transcriptions after I've done my own in case there are things that I may have overlooked. I'm not talking notes necessarily. Transcribers sometimes write what they expect or would like to hear rather than what is actually played - among the 'official' Parker transcriptions, I've found that the Voelpel book is generally very good in that regard, Aebersold is mostly not too bad but the original Real Book is often way off - so don't rely on them for pitch accuracy.

Phrasing, on the other hand, is always up for grabs. Do you play something out of position in a less user-friendly fingering to retain the articulation? Up or down the octave or even transposed to another key? Sure, do all this on your own and you'll learn a lot and more likely retain the tune but comparing your decisions with others can be enlightening at times as well.

[morroben]

Thanks for all the help. That half-speed feature on youtube is great...can't believe I never knew it was there. I managed to get the first 6 bars figured out this afternoon. That's more progress than I had made all week. It's definitely a trickier song than I'm used to. And probably not very tricky for a jazz tune. I'll get it.

[christianm77]

Maybe it's a bit too tough for now... But then, it's a good start into the shark infested waters of bebop heads.

If you still struggle, I would suggest maybe Things Ain't What they Used to Be or Tenor Madness as a substitute (albeit in different keys.)

[christianm77]

Also Billie's Bounce is a great line to study in terms of it being entirely embellished chord tones with a bit of blues, so breaking the head down is helpful for the study of line construction, as are all bop heads.

It's not that out there harmonically when you start to unpeel it, but the rhythmic phrasing is super hip.

Another great beginners bop head is Scrapple, as it's only 8 bars long (with a 1st and 2nd time ending) so even shorter than a blues ;-)

[morroben]

I got up early this morning to get some extra practice time and was able to get the rest of the head worked out. It still needs some practice to get more fluid but at least I can get through it now.
I think I was hearing some sax inflections as being more than one note when it wasn't, and vice versa. Not sure if that makes sense. But, the slow down really helped.
So I guess I know a bop head now. Progress is fun.

[christianm77]

I got up early this morning to get some extra practice time and was able to get the rest of the head worked out. It still needs some practice to get more fluid but at least I can get through it now.
I think I was hearing some sax inflections as being more than one note when it wasn't, and vice versa. Not sure if that makes sense. But, the slow down really helped.
So I guess I know a bop head now. Progress is fun.

Yeah it does - there's a couple of harmonies in the recording.

[Noah D'Innocenzo]

Strangely enough, I pretty much agree with you, Noah! After all, I went through that same process to write my transcription. I only offered it here as the OP had already worked on the melody and seemed to be looking for alternative ways to get it onto the fretboard. I sometimes find it helpful to check other people's transcriptions after I've done my own in case there are things that I may have overlooked...

Absolutely! And I meant no offense at all. It's a great transcription! I just know that I've remembered tunes I've learned by ear a lot better than tunes I've learned out of the Real Book. I also totally agree with checking, as you say. It's always good to double check your ear transcriptions.

[TLerch]

fingerings are very important. ask your teacher to suggest good fingerings, thats really the key to success
all the best
Tim