History of Jazz Standards

**Harri** · 05-12-2016, 07:06 AM

Hi!

I need some background info on the following tunes:

Soft Winds
Broadway
I'm a Fool to Want You
Just A-Sittin' and A-Rockin'
Will You Still Be Mine
Chicken an' Dumplins

I checked the index of Ted Gioias "The Jazz Standards" but none of the tunes were listed. They are listed on http://www.jazzstandards.com/, but lack information. Also, not much can be found by googling. Are there any other books or databases I should look into?

What I need is some history of these tunes - when, where and by who(m?) they were written. Some trivia would also be of interest. I need this data for research purposes.

Thanks!
Harri

**grahambop** · 05-12-2016, 07:19 AM

Just try googling each title individually followed by the word 'song' if necessary. I am sure some will have a Wikipedia entry at least.

**Harri** · 05-12-2016, 07:38 AM

Thanks for the input, I've already tried that.
I don't think Wikipedia is a formal source of information for academic research.

**MarkRhodes** · 05-12-2016, 08:29 AM

"Just A-Sittin' and A-Rockin'" is a Duke Ellington / Billy Strayhorn tune. Lee Gaines wrote the lyric. The first recording of it was in the early '40s. There's a chart for it in "The Ellington Real Book." (Probably in some other fakebooks too.)

**Nate Miller** · 05-12-2016, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Harri

I don't think Wikipedia is a formal source of information for academic research.

yea, but if you're publishing to millenials, nobody will ever know the difference

those morons are going to fact check you against Wikipedia from their phones anyway

**MarkRhodes** · 05-12-2016, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Nate Miller

those morons are going to fact check you against Wikipedia from their phones anyway

Fascinating bit about Wikipedia here. Philip Roth, the novelist, complains that a Wikipedia about his novel "The Human Stain" was wrong. Going through the process to voice his complaint, he is told that his authority on this matter---what his novel is based on---is insufficient grounds to correct the claim.

An Open Letter to Wikipedia - The New Yorker

destinytot · 05-12-2016, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Fascinating bit about Wikipedia here. Philip Roth, the novelist, complains that a Wikipedia about his novel "The Human Stain" was wrong. Going through the process to voice his complaint, he is told that his authority on this matter---what is novel is based on---is insufficient grounds to correct the claim.

An Open Letter to Wikipedia - The New Yorker

**Nate Miller** · 05-12-2016, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Fascinating bit about Wikipedia here. Philip Roth, the novelist, complains that a Wikipedia about his novel "The Human Stain" was wrong. Going through the process to voice his complaint, he is told that his authority on this matter---what is novel is based on---is insufficient grounds to correct the claim.

An Open Letter to Wikipedia - The New Yorker

its just completely nuts. and nobody even questions what a computer screen tells them, either.

I don't like the notion that you don't have to actually know anything because you can look it all up on your phone. It just drives me nuts.

Even friends of mine...we're talking hockey the other night and he wants to know a stat. I know the stat and I'm trying to tell him but he's got his head buried in the phone looking it up. Then finds it and its what I've been telling him. Our Pens haven't lost back to back games in 4 months now. I know. I've been following the games all season

oh well. My granddad told me never to get old

I shoulda listened to him

**mr. beaumont** · 05-12-2016, 09:58 AM

It is kinda sad that my kids are going to grow up and never have to wonder about something.

OP, any particular reason for these specific tunes?

For some of them, I'd think the liner notes on the original recording could be a good source of info.

**Nate Miller** · 05-12-2016, 10:00 AM

oh, and after all this bitching, I should help you out a bit

Will You Still be Mine (I believe) was the Dorsey band. Tommy Dorsey. There was a female singer on the record, I can't remember her name, but that was the version that everybody told me was the original.

**Nate Miller** · 05-12-2016, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

It is kinda sad that my kids are going to grow up and never have to wonder about something.

you could always make them wonder why they have to pull weeds on Saturday

that's a page out of my old dad's playbook

**MarkRhodes** · 05-12-2016, 01:45 PM

This is one of my favorite versions of "Soft Winds", though not the original by any stretch.

Herb Ellis was once part of a trio called Soft Winds.

**Harri** · 05-12-2016, 02:53 PM

Thank you all for replying. I'm playing these tunes on my final recital for BA. There is an academic written part that goes with that sort of concerts (at least in my school). So I need to explain why picked these tunes and say something informative about them, etcetc..

I should check out the liner notes. Even though the tune was credited to B. Goodman, there could be something about Soft Winds in the CC biography by P. Broadbent, I'll look it up.

By the way, all these tunes (except Chicken 'an Dumplins) are on Kenny Burrell Trio album "A Night At The Vanguard". Everybody, check it out - it's wonderful!

**Lazz** · 05-12-2016, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Herb Ellis was once part of a trio called Soft Winds.

That's the one with Johnny Frigo and Lou Carter, isn't it?
Recollections in interviews of their time seem pretty vague and fuzzy on firm writing details, but they all shared equal credit on that lovely song "Detour Ahead" even though, the way I heard it, Frigo was majority writer and the Ellis contribution was in truth pretty much limited to the "gullible clown" bit of lyrics ('though admittedly a very crucial and invaluable coupla words the way I look at it). But they were working together as a trio so that's the way the split it. I like that. And I love the song.

**MarkRhodes** · 05-12-2016, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lazz

That's the one with Johnny Frigo and Lou Carter, isn't it?
Recollections in interviews of their time seem pretty vague and fuzzy on firm writing details, but they all shared equal credit on that lovely song "Detour Ahead" even though, the way I heard it, Frigo was majority writer and the Ellis contribution was in truth pretty much limited to the "gullible clown" bit of lyrics ('though admittedly a very crucial and invaluable coupla words the way I look at it). But they were working together as a trio so that's the way the split it. I like that. And I love the song.

Yes, that's the trio I meant.
As for "Detour Ahead," I didn't know it had any lyrics!

**PMB** · 05-12-2016, 06:51 PM

This site's often worth checking out:

https://songbook1.wordpress.com/fx/1...still-be-mine/

**diminix** · 05-13-2016, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Nate Miller

its just completely nuts. and nobody even questions what a computer screen tells them, either.

I don't like the notion that you don't have to actually know anything because you can look it all up on your phone. It just drives me nuts.

Even friends of mine...we're talking hockey the other night and he wants to know a stat. I know the stat and I'm trying to tell him but he's got his head buried in the phone looking it up. Then finds it and its what I've been telling him. Our Pens haven't lost back to back games in 4 months now. I know. I've been following the games all season

oh well. My granddad told me never to get old

I shoulda listened to him

Just started reading an interesting philosophical point of view towards the changes of our thinking and actions induced by the internet and smartphones -> The Internet of Us | W. W. Norton & Company. Makes me shiver... Was made curious by this New Yorker article: After the Fact - The New Yorker.

After having a look at Lynch's work, I am taken with his Pluralist Theory of Truth. The countless quarrels here would make a great object of research for that theory. Together with Harry G. Frankfurt's Theory of Bullshit Lynch's ideas might be a foundation for my understanding of the modern world.

Robert

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-13-2016, 02:31 AM

I don't have historical info, but I've discovered Broadway on 'The Return Of Art Pepper' record, and it since became one of my fav. standards. I don't think many people are playing it nowdays, am I wrong? That IV7 chord in A section gives it a nice blues flavor, I love tunes like that!

**Harri** · 05-13-2016, 05:38 AM

I must agree with you Hep To The Jive, it's a really cool tune yet isn't played too much these days. It has a sort of a hard-bop feel to it, a bit like The Preacher but not as prominent. Nice trumpet solo on that version.

Take a listen to this KB interpretation from 1959 - cooookin'! It always amazes me how different he sounds from Barney Kessel even though they played with the same type of CC pickup back in those days.

And PMB, thanks for that link, very helpful.

**Stuart Elliott** · 05-13-2016, 06:09 AM

Danny Gatton and Joey DeFrancesco did a rousing version of "Broadway" on their Relentless album in 1994.

Some information on "Chicken and Dumplins'" here. Be sure and click the Historical Notes tab. Apparently, Ray Bryant wrote the tune but never recorded. There's a version with words called "Meant to Be" --an excerpt here.

**grahambop** · 05-13-2016, 06:53 AM

Dexter Gordon did a typically swinging version of Broadway on 'Our Man in Paris' (with Bud Powell, Kenny Clarke, Pierre Michelot).

**christianm77** · 05-13-2016, 09:26 AM

In terms of Wikipedia, the STEM stuff is pretty sound (at least according to Professor S. James Gates - looks legit to me, but I'm much more stupid than I was 20 years ago.) I think it gets more contentious when it's articles relating to the humanties, politics etc.

**Lazz** · 05-13-2016, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

As for "Detour Ahead," I didn't know it had any lyrics!

Both Billie and Sassy recorded it, but taste this one.....

**Doctor Jeff** · 05-13-2016, 04:24 PM

After hearing Bob Dylan do I'm a Fool to Want You on his recent standards album, it's hard for me to hear it any other way, oddly.

Re' Wikipedia, I entered my first Wiki entry ever yesterday--commented that The Brothers Allman recorded a version of Morning Dew in 1968.

Of course there are the usual caveats about the wisdom of crowds, propaganda, etc., but I am continually surprised how much information you can get about the most trivial of subjects without leaving your seat.