The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Dan — I think you usually transpose to more guitar-friendly keys. Stella isn’t a very guitar-friendly tune, but E seems to be a particularly difficult key for it due to the range of the melody (highest to lowest notes). If I wanted an easier key than Bb I might choose A instead of E.

    It’s fine to work in E, it’s just more awkward. You must decide which octave to play the melody in. Either the high notes go very high up the neck or the low notes go pretty low. Looks like we’re going with the latter in this thread.

    Stella has a tricky melody and harmony that depend on forward motion to work. If you sustain EM7 with A in the melody (as in your previous post) or sustain A#m7b5 with G# in the melody they may sound a little odd, but it works because the melody is moving as the chord sustains in measure 9, then the chords change under a sustained melody not in measure 10. The tensions between melody and harmony give the tune its forward motion.

    I’d suggest not thinking of the melody notes as being part of the named chord. Instead, focus first on playing the melody, then add roots and two or three chord tones under the melody to give a sense of the harmony.

    This is difficult to explain. Maybe one of the more advanced members can do a better job of it (or will correct me if I’m on the wrong track).
    After posting the above, I see someone made a similar suggestion on one of your previous threads.

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  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdan
    The next measure in Stella asks for A#m7b5 and the melody note is g# on the 3rd string. I can't find that chord in my chord, book so I am lost
    May I point out that the chord you quote is the enharmonic of Bbm7b5 , which should appear
    in a half decent chord book, if not I suggest that you acquire a better chord book . failing that
    just figure out the notes contained in the desired chord and painstakingly locate them on the
    fingerboard. Bingo !

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdan
    The next measure in Stella asks for A#m7b5 and the melody note is g# on the 3rd string. I can't find that chord in my chord book so I am lost
    Hi Dan,

    I like how you're opening this arrangement up for group discussion. It's interesting to hear everyone's take on it and suggestions.

    What I would like to add, even though it may not be all that helpful immediately, is to consider moving the melody up an octave when you're working on arrangements. That way you have more room underneath the melody to find and finger accompanying chords. In your case here there's not a lot of real estate under the g# on the 3rd string to find these chords.

    I think you'd find that working on this skill would eventually pay large rewards!

  5. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    You might try a very small chord here--x 1 2 1 x x will give you what you need.
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdan
    It sounds so dissonant to me...any other choices?
    That's a pretty good one. I mean you're getting pretty low with these parameters. So, anything will sound more dissonant by default.

    Play the bass note a half beat before or after the other two notes to break it up rhythmically. The ear will usually except almost anything in terms of low/muddy/dissonant if it's somewhat broken up , even by a small time interval.

  6. #80

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    As I have previously stated....I try to play tunes in the lower register because I can read them better there. I find it difficult to look at the music and play up the neck. I don't memorize easily so that is another reason....thanks....Dan

  7. #81

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    The melody note is c# and the suggested chord is G#m7 xx442x is what I came up with. Is that right?

  8. #82

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    That will work. You can easily put a G# in the bass too, if you want, 4x442x, Can be fingerpicked or if you use the left hand to mute the 5th string, strummed.

  9. #83

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    Yeah, with the bass note it's better....thanks

  10. #84

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    jazzdan,

    once you know the notes that are in the chord and where the notes on the fretboard... it's all the options you can try considering your own hands and technique.

    It's up to you of course but I am not really sure that asking about every single chord agains melody is the most efficient way to learn to make an arrangements.

    Anyway

    A#m7b is A# - C# - E - G#

    C# is chord tone

    you can use basic shape
    X1212x

    Or you can drop out some notes

    or you can use an inversion
    You can play also with open high E x12120 id you can underline a melodic note C# in between..

  11. #85

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    You need a 3rd or 1st string G# Dan?

  12. #86

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    The notes of the chord are d# gb a db and the melody note is g# on the 1st string....can't find a good mix

  13. #87

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    the first thing that comes to mind is this, from low to high:

    x x 1 2 2 4

    However what you play before it matters

  14. #88

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    I have enjoyed this thread. Awesome member contribution including excellent playing by "Mr B".
    I'm currently doing a recap of this song. It's funny, because in my early years I used to hate it. Obviously I didn't get it, and the reason was that nobody else that I played with did. This was long before Internet and for most songs nobody had a reference other than Fake book (we were kids, mostly listening to records of contemporary pop-music). In every combo there was always someone that wanted to play "Stella" (!) and I did my best to see to that it never happened (for the benefit of me, the band and the audience).

    Then one day I heard a recording of Ella Fitzgerald and the Lou Levy quartet and thought "aha, this is what it is supposed to sound like!". Since that day, Ella has been my reference for "Stella By Starlight", the reference I needed to grasp the song, also whit a groove. (By the way, Lou and Ella played it in F, perfect for solo guitar).

    Nowadays, when working on a song, I listen to as many versions as possible and always the original to understand the composer intentions and then some cherry picking from other arrangements.
    This is the first time ever I hear the original "Stella by Starlight" and I have to say this is also the best version. Just wow.

  15. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysideup
    So is the consensus that the first change is a diminished?
    A somewhat late reply Anyway, for those interested;
    I think I hear Esus4/-5 as the first chord in the original theme.
    Ella and Lou play in the key of F, which would make this first chord Bsus4/-5.
    I have played B7sus4...But B7sus4/-5 sounds pretty cool and would be closer to the original composition...very interesting.

  16. #90

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    It all comes back to those 4-3 suspensions, doesn't it? Everything seems to be about that ATM....

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    Many of the songs in the Real Book use Bill Evans changes.
    Very true, and sometimes they use the changes that Bill happened to use on just one chorus, or in one particular version of a tune he recorded many times. Thanks to the real Book, those changes are now burned into smartphones and ipads all over the world.

  18. #92

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    I think I put it somewhere here... (I would not be surprised if Jordan's opening opst was inspired by his studies with Peter even)


  19. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    I think I put it somewhere here... (I would not be surprised if Jordan's opening opst was inspired by his studies with Peter even)

    He talks about "diminished", but he plays Esus4add13/-5. (very close to the original opening chord).
    It's the suspended 4th, that makes the transition possible. (It becomes the root in the next chord).
    (The opening chord is not the key of the song)

  20. #94

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    As I understand it, the generally accepted approach to the 'original' chord is that it is a Bb diminished with a melody note A on top, that's why he calls it diminished (I think Barry Harris also says this).

    I think I've seen it referred to as Bb dim (maj7). It is certainly an ambiguous-sounding chord.

  21. #95

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    I view it as Dbo7 Cm7 F7, common chord progression.

    It's also quite common for dim7 chords to have non chord tones in the melody. You get it in really early stuff even. This note - the b6/b13 on the biiio7 comes up a lot, often as a suspension or passing tone, which is actually the case here...

  22. #96

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    We often substitute chords for various reasons; to alter the sound (re-harmonization), to facilitate improvisation, to facilitate finger setting, to solve the problem when we don't comprehend the chord symbol or when we find that what's written is a poor representation of the music (from an objective or subjective understanding). This is just Jazz, business as usual.

    Chords without extensions are easy to play and give me the opportunity to add my own. Jazz!

    Now, -what if the written changes don't make sense? We can fix it, no problem, provided there is a common reference for the music at hand (refer to my first post).

    -What if I play it true the way it was written, but can't make it fit into my logic? Then I can rationalize, whatever floats my boat.

    -What if I alter the changes in a song that has already been altered more than once? We can call it evolution or degeneration (or just Jazz!). All in the eyes of the beholder.

    Fact remains, If I remove the top melody note from the opening chord, it's still not a dim-chord.
    Is it close enough? Does anyone care? Could anyone tell the difference? Who am I to say. But I appreciate this thread.

    Also don't forget the performance guidelines for real Jazz musicians:


  23. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCat
    He talks about "diminished", but he plays Esus4add13/-5. (very close to the original opening chord).
    It's the suspended 4th, that makes the transition possible. (It becomes the root in the next chord).
    (The opening chord is not the key of the song)
    the 4th - I would call it anticipation not suspension here... it describes better what happens here for me.
    The whole tune is built on these anticipation...

    he talks about things that are going on behind it... it is just different way of hearing things...
    I would say that his description goes from undercurrent to the surface...

    Actually he does it all the time... he thinks harmonically on basic 7th chords movement, even triads... and functional relation mostly... all the rest is more or less an embelishment or overlapping of harmonies.

    I think in that context for him it makes more sense just to draw the main path, the essence of turnaround....

    It's like.. you can think of a chord as of A-11 but followed by D7 it is essentially just A-7 with anticipation of the next chord in the melody... to me this description gives moreunderstanding and connects things better...

    At least in such a context

    the way we describe things when we discuss it is mostly the way we play them ... the way we make movement and connect harmonies and phrases...

  24. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCat
    Fact remains, If I remove the top melody note from the opening chord, it's still not a dim-chord.
    I'm curious to know more about this, as most people seem to think it's diminished. What chord do you think it is? I assume we're talking about the clip from the film music in post no. 1, where the melody starts after the intro. (unfortunately I can't listen to it at the moment).

  25. #99

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    Pretty unambiguously dim in the original, you can hear them helpfully playing an arpeggio in the left hand of the piano.



    Dim here, too



    Most jazz versions seem to go II-V though.... Long before Miles....

  26. #100

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    yes I was listening to the first clip yesterday and I thought it sounded like a diminished run on the piano.