View Poll Results: How many Charlie Parker tunes do you know?

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  • I don't know any

    11 17.46%
  • A couple

    29 46.03%
  • A half dozen or so

    16 25.40%
  • At least a dozen, probably a few more

    5 7.94%
  • Twenty, easy, probably more

    2 3.17%
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  1. #251

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    Quote Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon
    But some of them were not at all primitive for the time and convey beautiful tone. Coleman Hawkins playing Body and Soul is the first that comes to mind for me. Illinois Jacquet playing Flyin' Home is another, and not a ballad either. IIRC the seminal Hawk version was done in 1939, and Jacquet's famous recording with Lionel Hampton was in 1942.

    One wonders why Parker did not usually record as well.
    Parker started out on very small labels (Savoy and Dial) whereas Hawkins' Body and Soul was on RCA - could be the small labels' recording quality was not as good? Maybe tenor sax was easier to record? I don't know.

    Parker's later recordings for Verve sound better. I must admit, I never found his sound harsh, just very powerful and direct.

    Anyway here's something which shows his lyrical side, maybe a more appealing sound:


  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #252
    destinytot Guest
    Anyway here's something which shows his lyrical side, maybe a more appealing sound:
    +1

  4. #253

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    nyway here's something which shows his lyrical side, maybe a more appealing sound:
    I love his often critisized records with the Big Band, I can really hear that he enjoyed.. I think someone said that he believed that 'lots of violins.. conductor.. that all meant serious music...'

    Since there's April in Paris let there be also Autumn in New York


  5. #254

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Parker started out on very small labels (Savoy and Dial) whereas Hawkins' Body and Soul was on RCA - could be the small labels' recording quality was not as good? Maybe tenor sax was easier to record? I don't know.

    Parker's later recordings for Verve sound better. I must admit, I never found his sound harsh, just very powerful and direct.

    Anyway here's something which shows his lyrical side, maybe a more appealing sound:


    Thanks for posting this! One of my favorite albums every recording here seems to be an example of how to do amazing things with the head of a tune. Lot of restraint, but every phrase is perfect, and he always weaves it around the head, never loses track of it.
    This has been a weird thread.. I'm definitely a rank beginner compared to most of the guys here - - - but it seems rather odd to me that there would even be a discussion on a jazz forum about Charlie Parkers relevance. I first heard his music when I was a 'shredder', and even then it seemed scary on so many levels, technically, all the rhythmic accents, the note choice, and most of all the fact that every solo he played made sense as a series of sentences and paragraphs, like a story - - there's more jazz vocabulary in a two minute Parker tune than in three hundred books of "101 jazz guitar solos". Slow down his music and listen to it and it only gets scarier
    I'm proud to say that I listen to him daily (and don't intend to change the habit) and hear amazing new things to learn from - harmonic ideas, motifs, references to other tunes - - almost everyday.
    (Charles McPherson, too - - - really a class apart - - anyone here a fan of his? )

  6. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    I love his often critisized records with the Big Band, I can really hear that he enjoyed.. I think someone said that he believed that 'lots of violins.. conductor.. that all meant serious music...'

    Since there's April in Paris let there be also Autumn in New York


    Thanks, Jonah ! Love that these are getting airplay . . . Don't forget this one, the melody is hauntingly beautiful


  7. #256
    destinytot Guest
    Charles McPherson
    I got to hear him at a seafront pub almost 25 years ago. He began his set in a manner not unlike Dexter Gordon in grahambop's account earlier in this thread. None of the rhythm section had met him before he started playing the first tune (Just Friends), in an unexpected key and without counting. At the end of that number, he presented the rhythm section one by one, singling out the pianist by saying "I'm gonna remember your name." As grahambop said of Dexter, huge sound.
    Last edited by destinytot; 03-26-2015 at 06:33 PM. Reason: correction

  8. #257
    destinytot Guest
    Terrible sound, but this for me - is Bird in flight. (Mundell Lowe flying the flag for jazz guitar.)

  9. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    Terrible sound, but this for me - is Bird in flight. (Mundell Lowe flying the flag for jazz guitar.)
    Brilliant, I hadn't heard this one before!

    The Massey Hall tapes are pretty incredible, I think it was one of Birds last major recordings. He's insanely tight throughout that whole show, his lines on 'Tunisia' are some of the best ever (the lineup is top notch, too - - Buddy Rich, Charles Mingus, Bud Powell and Dizzy Gillespie)

  10. #259

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    Has anyone here checked out the Dean Benedetti recordings? The box set is rather expensive, so I haven't made up my mind whether to purchase it or not. From the reviews online, it sounds like there'd be a lot of great transcription material in them..

  11. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by jishnudg
    This has been a weird thread.. I'm definitely a rank beginner compared to most of the guys here - - - but it seems rather odd to me that there would even be a discussion on a jazz forum about Charlie Parkers relevance. I first heard his music when I was a 'shredder', and even then it seemed scary on so many levels, technically, all the rhythmic accents, the note choice, and most of all the fact that every solo he played made sense as a series of sentences and paragraphs, like a story - - there's more jazz vocabulary in a two minute Parker tune than in three hundred books of "101 jazz guitar solos". Slow down his music and listen to it and it only gets scarier
    I'm proud to say that I listen to him daily (and don't intend to change the habit) and hear amazing new things to learn from - harmonic ideas, motifs, references to other tunes - - almost everyday.
    YES! Well said jishnudg! Every word right on the money!

    The first Parker record I bought was the double-LP set of the Savoy master takes. My reaction was exactly the same as yours.

    One great thing about this thread is that it has made me listen to loads of Parker tracks all over again! And play all the heads I know (rather badly I'm afraid!). In fact I've realised that a brilliant warm-up routine would be to play them all, one after the other, before doing anything else. So I did that today.

  12. #261

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    Quote Originally Posted by jishnudg
    (Charles McPherson, too - - - really a class apart - - anyone here a fan of his? )
    Yes, great player.


  13. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I know folks say that, but "Steps" is a pretty simple, catchy melody.
    but the solo is pretty much all arpeggiated patterns. Bird never resorted to that.

  14. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    but the solo is pretty much all arpeggiated patterns. Bird never resorted to that.
    I wonder how parker would've approached giant steps.
    Last edited by nick1994; 03-26-2015 at 07:29 PM.

  15. #264

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick1994
    I wonder how parker would've approached giant steps.
    hard to say but I bet he would have slowed the harmonic rhythm down

  16. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Parker started out on very small labels (Savoy and Dial) whereas Hawkins' Body and Soul was on RCA - could be the small labels' recording quality was not as good? Maybe tenor sax was easier to record? I don't know. ...

    Anyway here's something which shows his lyrical side, maybe a more appealing sound:

    +1 for the great clip.

    Also, I hadn't thought about the difference that labels may have made. Good point.

  17. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    YES! Well said jishnudg! Every word right on the money!

    The first Parker record I bought was the double-LP set of the Savoy master takes. My reaction was exactly the same as yours.

    One great thing about this thread is that it has made me listen to loads of Parker tracks all over again! And play all the heads I know (rather badly I'm afraid!). In fact I've realised that a brilliant warm-up routine would be to play them all, one after the other, before doing anything else. So I did that today.
    Thanks, Graham! I'm just starting out, of course, so still have a lot of listening to do - - but yeah I gifted myself the Savoy and Verve Box sets last year (best way to spend ones' 24th, I'd say ) , and like everything else by C.P, it's more than worth it. I'm starting to enjoy his 50s recordings more these days - - Recently bought a copy of "Bird plays Cole Porter" - - some lovely tunes in there, the man could really do justice to everything in the American Songbook.

    Also, do check out this book - "From Swing To Bop - An Oral History" if you can - - - it has a whole chapter on Bird, where guys like Gerry Mulligan, Paul Desmond, Howard McGhee have talked about him at length. The interesting thing is a lot of them mention, more than anything else, the things he did with rhythm, displacing his lines etc. Really inspiring.

  18. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe
    Confirmation and Moose are the toughest for me to nail well.
    Me too, but they are my favorite Parker heads. A good tune that is easy and nobody plays of his is Marmaduke (Honeysuckle Rose contrafact)

  19. #268

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    Quote Originally Posted by jishnudg
    Also, do check out this book - "From Swing To Bop - An Oral History" if you can - - - it has a whole chapter on Bird, where guys like Gerry Mulligan, Paul Desmond, Howard McGhee have talked about him at length. The interesting thing is a lot of them mention, more than anything else, the things he did with rhythm, displacing his lines etc. Really inspiring.
    Yes, I've got that - fascinating stuff. Great to hear it in the words of the musicians who were there.

  20. #269

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    Let us not forget Phil Woods:


  21. #270

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    Nice.

  22. #271

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    Pocket player....as to why the horn's prevalence in early jazz and jazz in general... The answer I was taught was that in New Orleans after the American Civil War ended and the Union Army left they left everything behind apparently lots and lots and lots of brass and woodwind instruments, and drums. This coupled with America's complete fascination with the Music of John Philips Sousa combined with what pianist Jelly Roll Morton called the Latin Tinge (tango's,the clave,etc.)are some of the ingredients that lead to early jazz music, according to some. The city of New Orleans had three professional Opera houses before the Civil War so there were many trained musicians in one very small city. Some say that the horn players then began to emulate the songs of early delta blues which was mainly sung and accompanied with guitar. And this vocalisation on the trumpet is what some say led to early jazz. Others say the early brass bands were trying to create the polyphony of ragtime pianists like Scott Joplin etc. Anyhow the early brass bands in the city of New Orleans were vital to the daily life of the city employed for all manner of occasions funerals,wakes,dances,parties,night clubs etc. this was gainful employment that brought with a positive social status within the city. As is often the case the best of the best had to leave New Orleans to achieve greater recognition and wealth, hence Joe Oliver and later Louis Armstrong finding fame and fortune in Chicago the place to be in the early 20th century.

  23. #272

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    I think drums drives everything in jazz. Not just Parker, but consider any jazz head. "It Don't Mean A Thing". "Little Rootie Tootie." Many many.

    When I write stuff in the studio I write the drums first, maybe considering the hits of the melody.

  24. #273

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    Here are 11 common Bop Heads played on guitar back to back. Now, some advocate that heads have all the vocab you'll need. But of these there's only 3 or 4 that contain a lick or 2 that I like enough to use in my own playing. You could spend a year learning all these heads that well, or you could go through solos, Bird's and others, that contain lines that you just "have to have". In the same year you could end up with a hundred lines that you love, and will actually use.

    Sure, you could say that if someone learned all those heads, what's to say they wouldn't put all that material to work in their own solos. Fair enough, but I certainly wouldn't care for hearing solos littered with those lines over and over.

    Let's face it, some bebop language/vocab/devices, or whatever you want to call them, have aged better than others. Some ideas can sound at home in a contemporary setting, others will just sound dated or even corny...

  25. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Now, some advocate that heads have all the vocab you'll need.
    I think you need to study both heads and solos. The solos will probably give you more useful lines. But then you should learn some of the heads anyway.

  26. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Here are 11 common Bop Heads played on guitar back to back. Now, some advocate that heads have all the vocab you'll need. But of these there's only 3 or 4 that contain a lick or 2 that I like enough to use in my own playing. You could spend a year learning all these heads that well, or you could go through solos, Bird's and others, that contain lines that you just "have to have". In the same year you could end up with a hundred lines that you love, and will actually use.
    And then, someone request the tune and you play ...?

  27. #276

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    Thanks eddy b, princeplanet !! smoking ....

  28. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet


    Here are 11 common Bop Heads played on guitar back to back. Now, some advocate that heads have all the vocab you'll need. But of these there's only 3 or 4 that contain a lick or 2 that I like enough to use in my own playing. You could spend a year learning all these heads that well, or you could go through solos, Bird's and others, that contain lines that you just "have to have". In the same year you could end up with a hundred lines that you love, and will actually use.

    Sure, you could say that if someone learned all those heads, what's to say they wouldn't put all that material to work in their own solos. Fair enough, but I certainly wouldn't care for hearing solos littered with those lines over and over.

    Let's face it, some bebop language/vocab/devices, or whatever you want to call them, have aged better than others. Some ideas can sound at home in a contemporary setting, others will just sound dated or even corny...
    I listened to the whole thing, well I think you're right, I hear some licks here and there, but overall I'm not inspired to lean them a lot of them. But some are cool in my book. Groovin High... awesome! Daahaud- never heard that one before, and it's absolutely beautiful. Tell me it's a Charlie Parker tune?

  29. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    I listened to the whole thing, well I think you're right, I hear some licks here and there, but overall I'm not inspired to lean them a lot of them. But some are cool in my book. Groovin High... awesome! Daahaud- never heard that one before, and it's absolutely beautiful. Tell me it's a Charlie Parker tune?
    Some of the tunes don't appear to be Parker tunes...

  30. #279

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    Here's Anthropology version that I dig the most. I guess, also depends who's playing. Everything that this guy played is superb, even the bebop tunes I originally didn't like that much.

  31. #280

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pocket Player
    Thanks eddy b, princeplanet !! smoking ....
    But that's not me, the guitarist in that clip is called Todd Homme.

  32. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Let's face it, some bebop language/vocab/devices, or whatever you want to call them, have aged better than others. Some ideas can sound at home in a contemporary setting, others will just sound dated or even corny...


    Maybe to your ear they sound dated or corny, to mine it sounds like genius.

  33. #282

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    its all about the Cheese ...

  34. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagelove
    Maybe to your ear they sound dated or corny, to mine it sounds like genius.
    I understand that, in fact from recent polls on this forum, seems like a lot of folks here prefer Swing to Bop, so a lot of the Bop language sounds too "modern" for them! I certainly don't wanna imply that modern = better as I don't believe that's true for just about anything (movies, cars, architecture, art etc etc....).

    But pure Bebop wasn't really played for very long, it quickly morphed into several different forms. Some argue that no-one really plays pure bebop any more, anywhere, and haven't since 1953. Yet there have always been Swing bands, Gypsy Jazz or even Ragtime and Dixieland bands, and indeed they're still around today, with no signs of going anywhere.

    It's funny how some styles become "classicised" in that way, and yet Bebop which continues to be the source for many aspiring Jazz soloists to drink from the cup of, is acknowledged but rarely played.

    Bit like how Latin is essentially a "dead" language, yet still taught and used by many professions that like to hang on to a tradition that refers to Latin terminology.... or something....

  35. #284

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Here's Anthropology version that I dig the most. I guess, also depends who's playing. Everything that this guy played is superb, even the bebop tunes I originally didn't like that much.
    I like that one too. I have Parker playing it at almost the same tempo on a Ken Burns Jazz CD. Personally, I prefer Pepper. Then there is this notably more up-tempo version - not one I like (or appreciate if you prefer) ...


  36. #285

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    My favorite is Nows the Time

  37. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Daahaud- never heard that one before, and it's absolutely beautiful. Tell me it's a Charlie Parker tune?
    Daahoud is by Clifford Brown:


  38. #287

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    [QUOTE=princeplanet;515906]

    Here are 11 common Bop Heads played on guitar back to back. QUOTE]

    Well done! I agree that the heads don't contain all the needed vocabulary but I think if one can play those heads to tempo, one should have the technique to play most of the bebop "vobab" one decides to learn. Don't you? Lot of technique in those heads....

  39. #288

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    [QUOTE=MarkRhodes;516350]
    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet

    Here are 11 common Bop Heads played on guitar back to back. QUOTE]

    Well done! I agree that the heads don't contain all the needed vocabulary but I think if one can play those heads to tempo, one should have the technique to play most of the bebop "vobab" one decides to learn. Don't you? Lot of technique in those heads....
    Once again, that's not me, it's a player named Todd Homme. And sure, the heads are great for technique , but so are the solos! If ya gonna spend a year on this stuff, you may as well get some useable lines you actually like, as well as the technical chops. I mean if you love Dexter, Clifford, or Rollins lines more than Parker's, then just go ahead and learn them! A lot of it is post Bird anyway, you're not missing any essential understanding to post Bop era Jazz (as in- later than 1953...).

    As you know, people have analysed Bird to death, but no-one has ever played just like him. You can't think like Bird, and nor should anyone aspire to that. Invent your own system after you learn the lines you love, which may be Parker lines, or maybe not.... I've learned my fair share of Bird, and have no regrets, but I could have learned McClean, or Cannonball lines, Woods, McPherson etc etc, and be equally happy, or even happier. Any one single bop influenced master can serve as a role model, Getz, Mobley, Miles, Wes, there's so many...

  40. #289

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    [QUOTE=princeplanet;517724]
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    And sure, the heads are great for technique , but so are the solos! If ya gonna spend a year on this stuff, you may as well get some useable lines you actually like, as well as the technical chops.
    I agree. It doesn't have to be Bird. I spend a lot of time on Herb Ellis lines. (Though Herb suggests guitarists analyze some Bird solos and learn from them!) But for me, I should know more Bird heads. When I was younger, I learned several but my technique was spotty, so I couldn't play them near performance tempo. Now my technique is better and I want to learn more Bird heads both for their value in and of themselves and as a personal accomplishment (-"once upon a time, this was way beyond me but now I can play it---yay!")

    Love Clifford Brown too.

  41. #290
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Clifford is great too. I did his solo on "Joy Spring" a long time ago, so the video below is pretty old. I did not even have glasses at the time I had to slow the solo down a bit because bars 17-23 are impossibly fast on guitar. I dare anyone to play them on guitar in real time!

    Still, this solo has some nice II-Vs that I isolated and slowed down later in the video. Highly recommded!



    Regards,

    DB

  42. #291

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    Just added Yardbird Suite and Anthropology to my list. Yardbird Suite is my fave Bird's tune right now, it's less complicated but very catchy. And that's how I think good tunes should be, you can get all kind of crazy s&$T going in a solo. Donna Lee is still my least fav., I practice it obsessively, but hate it! Maybe I just love the chord changes and it keep me going.

  43. #292

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Donna Lee is still my least fav., I practice it obsessively, but hate it! Maybe I just love the chord changes and it keep me going.
    If you like the chords, play 'Back Home in Indiana' - same chords.

  44. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    If you like the chords, play 'Back Home in Indiana' - same chords.
    I know that, but I still force to play Donna Lee, just to say I've done, and it's not a big deal. 'Cos you know, people would say, hey you hate it because you can't play it... well, get this! Also, I'm practicing it to a techno dance beat now, so it's a little bit more fun.

  45. #294

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    Again, it deepens your music to know the tunes that Parker's tunes came from. So Yardbird, according to me, is the changes to Lady Be Good on the outside and Nice Work if You Can Get It on the bridge. If you get tired of Donna Lee, make sure you know Indiana. The words are pretty good too. https://tomross1.bandcamp.com/track/indiana-in-india, a version in 7 beats.

    A bit of perhaps useless history: Indiana is in F. Dixie people often goose the key up to Ab on the last chorus. That's why Donna Lee is in Ab!

  46. #295

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    I just finished learning the repeating part of Donna Lee and I’m enjoying it so much. Though I can only play it at a fraction of its original tempo plus having a few mistakes here and there as I’m still a beginner.

    Another song I enjoy is “I’ll see you in my dreams” by Django. I guess what I’m looking for is a song with lots of picking.

    Any suggestion would help, much appreciated if you include the sheet or some kind of tutorial.

    Thank you

  47. #296

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    Four Brothers?

  48. #297

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    other Charlie Parker tunes like
    Confirmation
    Blues for Alice
    Ornithology

    others that come to mind:
    Joy Spring
    Four
    Solar

  49. #298

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broyale
    I worked on a couple, last one was Scrapple from the Apple, but like alot of his music, I quickly forgot it.
    Charlie Parker was an interesting person, but his music is a major turn-off for me and his solos are unlistenable. Its like 200 bpm note-vomit.
    No! I won't have it! You're wrong, wrong, wrong I say! It was more like 300...

  50. #299

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    The ironic part is that most if not all of the people on Broyale's list either were influenced by Charlie Parker or played with him. (For example, Miles)

    It would seem to me that Broyale just does not know what he does not know.

    There's a saying often attributed to Elvin Bishop:" I've been young but you've never been old, so don't tell me what it's like." (Paraphrased)

    Doug B

  51. #300
    Jerry Hahn has a good version of Joy Spring on his Moses record available on YT