The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    For sophisticated changes, Wagner takes some beating.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    I have never understood why jazzers aren't more interested in jazzifying classical tunes. Operatic arias in particular would be a natural place to start. If you take a look at late romantic operatic arias you can see that they are much more advanced harmonically than standards. After all, that's where the Broadway writers learned what was possible. I would love to post the chart for a Strauss aria but copyright concerns have stopped me. Three chord changes per bar rather than just one or two, all manner of inversions, etc., etc. I really don't know what explains the lack of interest. Is it bias against tunes that aren't in English? That aren't American? That are too hard? That sound too classical? The Swedish guys are awesome, but I'm sorry, I'll take Strauss over Bieber.
    The foundation of jazz was to improvise over familiar tunes, preferably danceable ones. I doubt most jazz musicians or their audience grew up listening to a lot of opera. But as jazz evolved from dance music toward art music, it would make sense to look to to opera for great melodies to harvest.

  4. #28

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    Mile Davis' Sketches of Spain is based on Tarrega's guitar concerto....
    If I may offer a small correction Doctor Jeff, it's taken from the "Concierto de Aranjuez (Adagio, middle movement) by Joaquin Rodrigo. Chick Corea, Al Di Meola and others have quoted from this piece as well.

    But Tarrega does have a good number of tunes that could easily be set jazz style. Tony Mottola used some of his pieces (Adelita) and I think it was "Bucky" Pizzarelli (maybe Mottola) has a nice arrangement of Romance de los Pinos by Federico Moreno Torroba, another source of jazzable classical tunes. It seems the Spanish stuff is most successful, maybe just more popular.

    Arguably, the most successful "almost combining" of the classical guitar and jazz guitar styles (not really classical, not really jazz, something inbetween) would be the Brazilians (Latin American styles in general). Guys like Carlos Barbossa Lima, Egberto Gismonti and Raphael Rabello have done some amazing things with solo nylon string guitar not to mention Baden Powell, Luiz Bonfa, Almeida, Byrd...

    Granted they didn't often base their material on recognized "classical" tunes but....


  5. #29

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    St Vincent chick f****** rocks!!! Never heard of her before.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Tremblay
    If I may offer a small correction Doctor Jeff, it's taken from the "Concierto de Aranjuez (Adagio, middle movement) by Joaquin Rodrigo. Chick Corea, Al Di Meola and others have quoted from this piece as well.
    You are correct! Of course, I should have known that. The Rodrigo is also the basis for the opening of Chick Corea's Spain, which I play in a very liberal version. I think I was thinking of Tarrega's Recuerdos de la Alhambra, which is a beautiful song and one I would love to play but which would require A LOT of work on my classical chops. I am not aware of a jazz version of this one.

    Re' St. Vincent--I love her. She played at a club about 6 blocks from my house last week, but unfortunately I was otherwise engaged. Her stuff is very edgy and innovative, not exactly jazzy to my ear, but who knows? Maybe it would work.

  7. #31

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    Has anyone mentioned Jim Hall's Concierto (Concierto de Aranjuez)? And didn't he do a pavane? Faure's? My memory is sketchy.

    Edit: Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte. on Big Blues.

    Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 04-10-2014 at 03:04 PM.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    For sophisticated changes, Wagner takes some beating.
    Well, if anybody was Wagner's successor it was Strauss. He damned sure knew all of Wagner's music backwards and forwards. He was 30 years later. I may be wrong about this, but my understanding has been that Western tonal music ends at Strauss. By the 20th century, especially after World War I, people like Debussy and Schoenberg realized that a radical break with the past was necessary.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by KIRKP
    This version includes the score
    Awesome. Thanks for posting. Hopefully the copyright police aren't around. Strauss was fanatical about getting payed every penny he was owed and I think the family has kept up that diligence!

    But you can go through that and write out all the chords. It is really worth it. It is slow enough that even a hack like I can play it. Probably you pros can just read it!

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Has anyone mentioned Jim Hall's Concierto (Concierto de Aranjuez)? And didn't he do a pavane? Faure's? My memory is sketchy.

    Edit: Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte. on Big Blues.


    He did "Lament for a Fallen Matador", based on Albinoni's Adagio in G Minor, on "Commitment" as well.

    I think it's time to make a playlist with these recordings (Aranjuez as well) back to back. And drink a little wine.



    The original, which is a strikingly beautiful piece of music...



    There's also some weird Doors version of this one...post Morrison's death, I presume? I dunno, never was into them. Anyway, it's out there too, it's decidedly "meh."

  11. #35

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    I'm at a current loss here . . . because I just can't bring myself to listen to any of the current music. IMO . . some of the current country stuff that I heard the other night on the ACMA is by far out pacing everything in pop music.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    I'm at a current loss here . . . because I just can't bring myself to listen to any of the current music. IMO . . some of the current country stuff that I heard the other night on the ACMA is by far out pacing everything in pop music.

    True true! Some how the times are a-changing and I can't quite put my finger on the various reasons why. (We need a sociologist).

    Clive Davis is one of the most successful record company executives - ever. He's about 77-78 years old and still working. From Jimi Hendrix, Santana, Brooks and Dunn, Chicago, the hated Kenny G to Whitney Houston and more. He's given them all careers.
    He famously says, he has two sets of ears. One set for the melodic music we love in this forum and the other set of ears for what sells.

    Personally, I think synthesizers and computers (samplers) helped get rid of chord progressions in popular music. And then you throw in drugs and dancing in Ibiza… YEAAAAAH… (sorry for that outburst)… and you start seeing why music has transformed to a pure dance fest with exotic computer generated sounds.

    A large part of popular music became influenced by "collage art" flavor. (AKA DJs armed with computer samplers and a most fantastic knowledge of how to make a crowd dance, yes that's a huge skill - knowing how to make a crowd dance. There is nothing worse that a bad DJ who empties a dance floor). A great DJ is like a airline pilot. He soars to the sky and returns his plane down to the ground without disturbing the passengers. Bumpy rides never allowed!!

    Anyway, after that the law suits readjusted all that. But it was too late. Producers started creating "collage art" from scratch.

    I'm sure I've left a ton of sociological causes out but this is a start!

    PS: Ironically, I should add that most of my musical progress on guitar is due to computers and synthesizers. But I don't think people would want to put in the hard work involved. Learning to PLAY is hard work. And That's another problem. It's freaking hard work getting good at music with chord progressions from the golden days of popular music.

    Hello, All THe Things You Are… HA!

    PPS: I think "On Green Dolphin Street" would rock HARD with a band like THE ROOTS doing the rhythm section to a hard mid tempo groove. A real rock solid, simple hair raising groove (The Roots) that's not of the smooth jazz variety. Me no like smooth jazz. But anyhow, I hope to be one of the first to try that.
    Last edited by West LA Jazz; 04-11-2014 at 08:08 AM.

  13. #37

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    I spent a couple of months teaching myself "Just the way you are" (solo guitar) by Billy Joel to the point where the chord melody flows now.

    It is an already jazzified song masquerading as a pop song. :-)

    I am going to add a beat to it in Pro Logic and see how that goes. The next would be to put it in front of the band and tell the drummer not to be afraid. HA!

    It's already funky and it begs to be married to a mid tempo "no frills" hip hop beat to accentuate the changes to make peoples heads go back and forth… ugh!

    Soloing over this song will be a blast to anyone who tries it.

    Last edited by West LA Jazz; 04-11-2014 at 08:26 AM.

  14. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jbyork
    Many of the older standards came from musicals, and since animated films -- such as the Disney "princess" movies ("Beauty and the Beast," "Tangled," "Brave," etc.) are the musicals of today, you might look into some of those tunes. My kids know all the words to every song, and make fun of me because I don't.
    My original post was looking for recent pop tunes with good melody. But looking for great melodies in recent popular musicals tracks is a great suggestion. Non-musical musical movie soundtracks might be a good resource too (e.g., Rachel Portman's compositions).

  15. #39

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    Young guy from New Zealand here! I may be a little late to the party, but I do a lot of reharmonizing and re-arranging modern pop songs. I've found recent popular hits can definitely be worth jazzifying - it includes people who aren't jazz musicians, rather than alienating them. Besides, I like pop music anyway.

    Here's my take on Lorde - this has been a successful arrangement to perform here in NZ. Not straight ahead jazz, not straight ahead pop, but some mixture of the two.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #40

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    recent recent RECENT means ike pop hits from RIGHT NOW...billy joel is like from the last century, literally


    if i had the right riddum section i could imagine SO tearing-up maroon 5's 'move like jagger' instrumentally and 'jazzified'....multiple hooks to transform into soul grooves....young george benson, grant green, boogaloo joe etc woulda raved relentless on something like move like jagger--remember sonny sharrock redeeming herbie mann's memphis lp...sing the move like jagger motifs to yerself, imagine them played by a solid saxophonist...could be thematics from late coltrane or any-era sonny rollins.

    riddum rules...it's the primal element. IMO.

  17. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by janepaints
    if i had the right riddum section i could imagine SO tearing-up maroon 5's 'move like jagger'
    Nothing happening there melodically.
    Last edited by KirkP; 04-13-2014 at 09:53 PM.

  18. #42

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    [QUOTE=KIRKP;416657]
    Quote Originally Posted by janepaints
    if i had the right riddum section i could imagine SO tearing-up maroon 5's 'move like jagger' /QUOTE]
    Nothing happening there melodically.
    well we got different ears...and tastes etc..

    the riffs/motifs in the song catch my ears...melody-oriented? no...but riff-n-motif oriented? most definitely...and those are what i'd focus on to 'jazzify'....ala grant green's take on sookie sookie...recently (youtube? some jazz forum?) i came across an interview with elvin jones wherein he maintained that coltrane told him the primary inspiration behind 'a love supreme' was the simple riff of muddy water's 'mannish boy'...'jazzifying' upon simple structures is a longtime bonafide approach, whether in composing or adapting/arranging...

    which is certaintly not to negate those approaches more-oriented towards melody or harmonic structure.

    but it does seem to me that no matter what approach is taken, the 'jazzifying' element is more dependent upon the skills, creativity and imagination of the 'jazzifying' musician rather than the source material...ya know? there's nothing especially 'deep' or wonderfully melodic about 'surrey with the fringe on top' but miles did wonders with it...

    certainly my views are deeply informed by my reaction to an oft-observed lock-step dismissal which many musicians give to contemporary pop...i find lots of current pop exciting and kinetic (but then i love dancing and still do so when my knees permit it)...yes, lots of current pop is made using new technolgies, mindsets and aesethic sensibilities [some of those synth-arpeggio'd bass lines are killer, i don't care how they're made or programmed, they swing IMO], but to assume that the millions of non-musician folks who like it are tone-deaf, unintelligent or somehow being culturally conned just makes no sense to me...it's too elitist...

    but all in all i do know/accept that riddum gets to me more than other elements....ya know? i'd sooner play 'shallower' music with a great drummer & bassist than play 'deeper' music with sluggish rhythm players...


    urgh...don't wanna get in some big debate, and i admit to being in a grumpy mood this evening
    Last edited by janepaints; 04-13-2014 at 08:25 PM.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by janepaints
    recent recent RECENT means ike pop hits from RIGHT NOW...billy joel is like from the last century, literally

    riddum rules...it's the primal element. IMO.
    :-) Riddum rules yes,.. and yes Billy Joel is like from the last century. Yes. Which is why (in an earlier post) I first included links like this…
    This is 24 hours ago music. And these guys are doing it now.
    PS: I do realize that their skill is sick and pretty much "professional grade level".





    Quote Originally Posted by janepaints


    if i had the right riddum section i could imagine SO tearing-up maroon 5's 'move like jagger' instrumentally and 'jazzified'....multiple hooks to transform into soul grooves....young george benson, grant green, boogaloo joe etc woulda raved relentless on something like move like jagger--remember sonny sharrock redeeming herbie mann's memphis lp...sing the move like jagger motifs to yerself, imagine them played by a solid saxophonist...could be thematics from late coltrane or any-era sonny rollins.

    riddum rules...it's the primal element. IMO.
    Regarding the "right riddum section" which as you know is hard to come by, I suggest getting FL STUDIO formerly known as FRUITY LOOPS (it comes with tons of badass riddum loops that you can then re mould into the sound you imagine this rejazzification to be)

    AKA FL STUDIO (FL Studio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
    (Image Line FL Studio 11 Fruity Loops Edition | Musician's Friend)

    (PS: Check craigslist for this software or any other music software too).

    I would use this software to "mock up" that riddum you're hearing in your head and then present it to the band when you find the right members. I use Pro Logic and REASON to mock up rejazzification of songs I like. Makes a hell of a difference and beats trying to explain what you're hearing in your head to musicians.

    PS: I still think when the martians come, they'll probably hear a Jah-make-Yan ver-shan of JUST THE WAY YOU ARE before a Justin Bieber or Maroon 5 song.. :-)

    Wha' deh daaatah seh? :-)

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz
    :-) Riddum rules yes,.. and yes Billy Joel is like from the last century. Yes. Which is why (in an earlier post) I first included links like this…
    This is 24 hours ago music. And these guys are doing it now.
    PS: I do realize that their skill is sick and pretty much "professional grade level".







    Regarding the "right riddum section" which as you know is hard to come by, I suggest getting FL STUDIO formerly known as FRUITY LOOPS (it comes with tons of badass riddum loops that you can then re mould into the sound you imagine this rejazzification to be)

    AKA FL STUDIO (FL Studio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
    (Image Line FL Studio 11 Fruity Loops Edition | Musician's Friend)

    (PS: Check craigslist for this software or any other music software too).

    I would use this software to "mock up" that riddum you're hearing in your head and then present it to the band when you find the right members. I use Pro Logic and REASON to mock up rejazzification of songs I like. Makes a hell of a difference and beats trying to explain what you're hearing in your head to musicians.

    PS: I still think when the martians come, they'll probably hear a Jah-make-Yan ver-shan of JUST THE WAY YOU ARE before a Justin Bieber or Maroon 5 song.. :-)

    Wha' deh daaatah seh? :-)
    I'm a long time FL Studio hobbyist. I just download general midi files and work on mixing skills. Replace parts, add some, etc...FL can be used for lot's of things. There are different ways to get loops. The point for me is to replace all the individual parts in the loops with different sounds. I ran into one loop I liked and I just couldn't get it to sound right because of the odd swing it had. Much of the time it's not hard.

    What you suggest can work. I assume you are using Logic after FL because FL doesn't have great audio handling. It can do audio though. You're describing an entire workflow.

    Modifying loops is good for developing mixing skills but I'm not sure what you're doing with them. Just using a loop as is is becoming passe'. You can time-stretch and chop it but now people are getting into duplicating everything in the loop and using their own sounds. It's not as easy as it sounds sometimes.

    Midi loops are the thing now. If you get a drum program or something like that they'll make it hard to access the midi files directly. You have to go through their program. I've learned the most from plain old general midi files off the net. Dump it in FL and start playing with it. Plain midi sounds nasty but you find sounds off the net to replace the GM sounds. That's what soundfonts are for. You can find regular wave files too. It took me a while to find good TR808 and TR909 drum waves. You definitely want those.

    Too many toys aren't good and why pay for things when you can get them for free? I have a huge soundfont collection. There's Viena Soundfont Studio that's free(not to be confused with VIENNA Soundfont Studio). The cost of this stuff will start adding up. Trillium(for bass?) is supposed to be good but it's expensive. I have tons of free VSTs.

    What you describe takes years to get good at and develop some skills. I use FL just for GM novelty music but I know it inside and out. FL to Logic and Reason? That's too much. learning to use a DAW might be good but right now hardware is what's happening. DAWs are out. Computers are out too. Learn to use hardware and actually perform on it. People are sick of mouse music. That's what I call it. I'm sick of doing it too. I wanted to learn how to mix better since I don't have much talent for it.

    Get a drum machine!! I'm trying to make up my mind about what to get.

    Geez, that was kind of long.........
    Last edited by Stevebol; 04-14-2014 at 12:47 AM.

  21. #45

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    "I'm a long time FL Studio hobbyist."

    I also have tons of experience with computer generated and/or assisted music. Luckily, I started out playing real instruments so I may have a little advantage that way.
    And if you have lived in LA and NYC like I have, you have friends today who you see on TV and the big screen getting paid. Don't cry for me...Haha!

    "I just download general midi files and work on mixing skills. Replace parts, add some, etc...FL can be used for lot's of things. There are different ways to get loops. The point for me is to replace all the individual parts in the loops with different sounds. I ran into one loop I liked and I just couldn't get it to sound right because of the odd swing it had. Much of the time it's not hard."

    You can do all this in almost ANY music related software out today. It's the learning curve that varies. I would use SONY SOUND FORGE for what you're describing IF you aren't interested in PRO LOGIC, NUENDO, CUBASE, etc. It's an audio manipulation power house (sound forge is).

    "What you suggest can work. I assume you are using Logic after FL because FL doesn't have great audio handling. It can do audio though. You're describing an entire workflow."

    I've never used fruity loops. I just know that a bunch of current EDM producers have used it or use it. Today, we're here trying to find THEIR songs to jazzify so I figured why not, they're doing something right… they're getting paid millions and millions of dollars for being creative in fruity loops.

    "Modifying loops is good for developing mixing skills but I'm not sure what you're doing with them. Just using a loop as is is becoming passe'. You can time-stretch and chop it but now people are getting into duplicating everything in the loop and using their own sounds. It's not as easy as it sounds sometimes."

    I tend to work from inspiration and so when I hear something in my head I need to get it down quick. I usually hum the idea on my audio recorder in my smartphone. I'm pretty good @ beat boxing and humming ideas so that if I listen to the idea a week from now, I'll know exactly what I was thinking. If the inspiration was Shyte,…. boom. DELETE! One of the baddest hip hop beats of all time, is TIMB'S beat on PUT YOUR HANDS WHERE MY EYES CAN SEE. Now throw that under any of your favorite songs today. It will still hit hard. But the idea is down. I can worry about sound replacement later.

    "Midi loops are the thing now. If you get a drum program or something like that they'll make it hard to access the midi files directly. You have to go through their program. I've learned the most from plain old general midi files off the net. Dump it in FL and start playing with it. Plain midi sounds nasty but you find sounds off the net to replace the GM sounds. That's what soundfonts are for. You can find regular wave files too. It took me a while to find good TR808 and TR909 drum waves. You definitely want those."

    For me,... I don't care what tool I use so long as the time between idea and playback the way I "hear" it in my head is as short as possible. "Now" tools may be cool but the end user doesn't care what tool you used to create that bad a%% track he or she is grooving to! $20 or $2000 tool, no matter so long as it's doing the job. I used to use a $300 BOSS EBAND to learn guitar parts. Six months later I stumbled on TRANSCRIBE… a $50 piece of software that did an even better job. Boom. I switched. Thirst for knowledge… quickest possible time.

    "Too many toys aren't good and why pay for things when you can get them for free?"

    Yes. Too many toys aren't good IF you don't take time to learn ALL of them. In that case, yes I agree.
    Oh, let's agree not discuss free in an open forum shall we? We all know what happens when…. :-)

    "What you describe takes years to get good at and develop some skills."

    I'm assuming you're a guitarist? In my opinion, its FAR easier to learn to use a DAW than to play jazz guitar. But that's me. You are correct, it does take years but I think enthusiasm for any given task conquers all. Don't forget, mixing isn't the end game. Creating a blazing song is the goal. Write the song. Mixing comes later. One more thing, you can use a physical mixer to control the DAW. Ends up being pretty much the same thing.
    Check this mixer out by EUPHONIX. BAD MAMA JAMA. It talks to most DAWS.

    Avid | Artist Mix

    SCROLL DOWN AND WATCH THE VIDEO. That little piece of hard was will cost you $1200. But it is hardware and damn good hardware at that!!

    "I use FL just for GM novelty music but I know it inside and out. FL to Logic and Reason?"

    Don't sleep on any program out there. 9th Wonder, Soulja boy and I believe Skrillex all use Fruity loops to make songs that we then want to jazzify! ;-)
    Soulja Boy on Fruity Loops - XXL

    Skrillex says Fruity loops is "amazing".
    Interview: Skrillex talks production, plug-ins and power edits | Skrillex | Tech News | MusicRadar

    What I found out about using software is that it's the same like guitar. You can either strum 3 chords and be fine or your can dig deep and be shocked at what software or the guitar can do.

    "That's too much. learning to use a DAW might be good but right now hardware is what's happening. DAWs are out."

    I have an original MP3 Mk II machine gathering dust in my closet. I would sell it to you but I think I should keep it and see what happens in 2020. I don't worry myself about what's in or out so long as my musical idea can be played back on a sound system and sound awesome. Awesome takes time. Oh, you should see the hardware (keys, drum machines, mics, outboard gear etc) I have in my storage. All stuff that I have used. Yes, I am and always will be a hardware and software user even though technically, the "hardware" you refer to are really software controlled.

    By the way, Pharrell Williams uses a DAW. Creature of habit he says. Don't fix what aint broke. He uses Pro Logic and he's very today with regards to music even though he started out last century and is an actual co-writer of the song you've heard before called NO DIGGITY (circa 1996… although you won't see his name on the songs credits… BUT he gets album credit). Last century producer making hits circa 21st century btw…. :-)

    (Re: Pharrell - PRO LOGIC -- I have this mag… see if you can read it online….
    https://www.facebook.com/11617853509...85424998173073)

    "Computers are out too. Learn to use hardware and actually perform on it. People are sick of mouse music. That's what I call it. I'm sick of doing it too. I wanted to learn how to mix better since I don't have much talent for it."

    Computers will never be out! Ever. I started out on keyboards (my mama said to at 8 years old), then went to drums and flute and then settled on guitar ever since. Along the way computers made my learning curve easier. I use the tools and try not to make the tools use me. Even if you have an all acoustic band. The mix down will be computerized. Sound replacement is so common and quantization (however small) of already recorded tracks is like breathing.

    "Get a drum machine!!"
    I actually use BATTERY. It's a bad a** software drum machine. Controllable by hardware interface btw.

    "I'm trying to make up my mind about what to get."

    MASCHINE
    ALESIS
    ROLAND
    AKAI
    KORG

    Any of these brands will serve you well.

    "Geez, that was kind of long......…"

    HA! Mine might have clocked in a little longer but no worries. Caring is sharing! LOL :-)

  22. #46

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    All those new hardware thingies are nothing more but fancy robbery, unless you plan to play
    electronic DJ music live, or really get into "those" circles.

    For all other recording and music making needs, if you really think the result would be any different
    than with a mouse:

    Get a:

    Zoom R16 - hardware recorder, digital mixer and (USB) midi controller (faders),
    cca USD300

    AKAI LPD8 - USB MIDI controller (knobs and pads/ switches) cca USD50

    Any USB MIDI keyboard cca USD100 - ... (each key can be mapped to any function,
    49 (keys) is much more than 16 pads and 49 is much less than 61, or 76, or ...)

    Reaper - cca USD50 (+ with Zoom and Keyboard you'll get stripped down version of some commercial DAW)

    You have all the control and there are loads of free SFonts and samples.

    People are not sick of mouse music, like they are not of guitar music, or JAZZ.
    There are so many different and brilliant musicians and their music on the net, all made with true skill,
    the old fashion way, including the mouse, with talent and passion. Gestalt thing.
    It comes to my mailbox and to my social pages daily, together with piles of crap where people are trying
    to make something they think will succeed or are showing some technique wizardry on their instrument of
    choice.
    The most recent discovery was posted to this forum (sorry can't recall who posted) and it was St. Vincent.
    There's even guitar wizardry involved, but on complete different level, fully in function.

    If of anything, people are sick of beats and beat making. I know I am. Also, whole beat frenzy thing I hold for a hoax.
    Hip Hop rap is about lyrics, techno house hits are about catchy melodies and sweet voices (I mean, that's what make them stand out. 4 on the floor is essential, but does not make the difference) ,...
    Beat is essential only in industrial and minimal, where everything else is deliberately left out,
    but there it must be coupled with unusual sound.
    Last edited by Vladan; 04-14-2014 at 05:22 AM.

  23. #47

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    Vladan, we have some of the same equipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan

    "Get a:

    Zoom R16 - hardware recorder, digital mixer and (USB) midi controller (faders),
    cca USD300"
    I have one of these. Bought it used off Craigslist for $150 when my laptop crashed. Before I could use it my friend who runs a video editing department gave me a used Mac tower that still works perfectly and so it was back to Pro Logic 9 for me. Maybe one day, I'll get to use it but the visual aid when removing unwanted sounds from vocals or that annoying humming sound that Pro Logic affords has got me hooked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan

    "People are not sick of mouse music, like they are not of guitar music, or JAZZ.
    There are so many different and brilliant musicians and their music on the net, all made with true skill,
    the old fashion way, including the mouse, with talent and passion. Gestalt thing."

    "If of anything, people are sick of beats and beat making."
    Very true, which is why to me a band like THE ROOTS has climbed slowly and steadily to the top of the mountain without white hot success like others in their genre. In addition to everything else they do, they use a live drummer who specializes in adopting the strengths of what a drum machine is capable and great at (RE: Strong minimalist time). Today, in addition to being a hugely in demand session player and producer, he is the drummer on the biggest nightly talk show in the USA.

    PS: Vladan,

    BTW, My good friends went their honeymoon in your country (which I hear reminds people of Italy back in its hey day).
    They tell everyone who will listen to pay a visit.
    Last edited by West LA Jazz; 04-14-2014 at 10:27 AM.

  24. #48

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    i'm out of it regarding software/computer musicmaking/recording...haven't the funds...
    only have a netbook and a kindle, dont even have internet at home...feel too old now to change my ways...
    the boss digital multitracker serves my needs okay....

    but were i younger, had more funds, you bet i'd be keen on the stuff people are using now...

    this whole notion of 'jazzifying' contemporary pop has captured my thoughts more than most threads on this forum...
    i dont know what it'll be, but i feel in my bones that some new hybrid music(s) will happen, as they always do, as times and society changes,
    parts of which will be the new 'jazz', which, if past evolutions are any model, will probably happen under the radar, coming out of some
    DIY bastard-mutt-chaotic-unchartable waters...some kinda new dance-club scene, or popular-taste movement...

    when these tides happen it usually takes awhile for pundits, critics, academics and other such reactionaries to turn up and ruin it all by
    proclamations, granting of 'isms', wrongheaded analysis, cultural co-option, scholarly misconstrual etc...

    however that model may not persist, given worldwide digital technology...

    so that another 'hunch in my bones' wonders if when the next wave of 'jazzifying' happens, it might well go both unnoticed by The Pundits
    and be instantly widespread to the listeners....beyond the reach or notice of cultural talking heads and carpetbaggers...
    a brand new river of music hidden in plain sight, so to speak.

    urg

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    All those new hardware thingies are nothing more but fancy robbery, unless you plan to play
    electronic DJ music live, or really get into "those" circles.

    For all other recording and music making needs, if you really think the result would be any different
    than with a mouse:

    Get a:

    Zoom R16 - hardware recorder, digital mixer and (USB) midi controller (faders),
    cca USD300

    AKAI LPD8 - USB MIDI controller (knobs and pads/ switches) cca USD50

    Any USB MIDI keyboard cca USD100 - ... (each key can be mapped to any function,
    49 (keys) is much more than 16 pads and 49 is much less than 61, or 76, or ...)

    Reaper - cca USD50 (+ with Zoom and Keyboard you'll get stripped down version of some commercial DAW)

    You have all the control and there are loads of free SFonts and samples.

    People are not sick of mouse music, like they are not of guitar music, or JAZZ.
    There are so many different and brilliant musicians and their music on the net, all made with true skill,
    the old fashion way, including the mouse, with talent and passion. Gestalt thing.
    It comes to my mailbox and to my social pages daily, together with piles of crap where people are trying
    to make something they think will succeed or are showing some technique wizardry on their instrument of
    choice.
    The most recent discovery was posted to this forum (sorry can't recall who posted) and it was St. Vincent.
    There's even guitar wizardry involved, but on complete different level, fully in function.

    If of anything, people are sick of beats and beat making. I know I am. Also, whole beat frenzy thing I hold for a hoax.
    Hip Hop rap is about lyrics, techno house hits are about catchy melodies and sweet voices (I mean, that's what make them stand out. 4 on the floor is essential, but does not make the difference) ,...
    Beat is essential only in industrial and minimal, where everything else is deliberately left out,
    but there it must be coupled with unusual sound.
    Naturally a comp would be essential if you were doing something like trance but for some other genres a comp would not be needed. Some of the new hardware gear doesn't save songs so you have to play it to some extent.

    I'm just talking 'trendy'. Anyone can sample now, and time stretch. There's a little less interest in it right now. As for rap, plenty of rappers use live drummers.

  26. #50

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    A lot of us old farts used to do R&B. The ROOTS are OK but there's more interesting stuff going on. They're just a talk show band, no offense, I know they're good musicians.

    It's a gig.......

    janepaints........carpetbaggers......LOL
    Last edited by Stevebol; 04-14-2014 at 12:12 PM.