The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    hello

    The chords on Donna Lee (as per Pocket Changes):

    || Ab | F7 | Bb7 | Bb7 |
    | Bb- | Eb7 | Ab | Eb-, Ab7 ||

    || Db | Gb7 | Ab | F7|
    | Bb7 | Bb7 | Bb- | Eb7 ||

    || Ab | F7 | Bb7 | Bb7|
    | C7-9| G-7-5, C7-9 | F- | G-7-5, C7-9 ||

    || F- | G-7-5, C7-9 | F- | B dim |
    | Ab, F7 | Bb-, Eb7 | Ab | Bb-, Eb7 ||

    I am interested in hearing your thoughts on scales played over the chord changes--from 'mainstream' to more exotic choices, but 'basic' scalar changes first...

    More specifically, a 'rule of thumb' I was taught was to look for the dominant chord--i.e., the V of a major harmonized scale--to determine the key center changes and, thereby, the scale to work with. This may cultivate playing that is too...predictable for some, but, as a springpoint for any other more expressive ideas and improvisation I will start here.

    How many times does the composition change key centers? For example, F7 being the V of Bb, Eb7 being the V of Ab, Ab7 being the V of Db, etc. I would then acknowledge the key center changes as a cue for scale choices (and musical phrases derived thereof)--correct? Also, the ii V I progressions occurring in Donna Lee taken into account as well: Eb- Ab7 Db, Bb- Eb7 Ab, etc.

    In sum: how would you analyze the composition (re key center changes) before choosing your solo lines?
    Last edited by dean taylor; 08-05-2013 at 01:51 AM.

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  3. #2

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    my opinion:

    you can't really play bebop tunes using "key centers" and scales. That's not how it works: in the same way you wouldn't blow using major 7 arpeggios over Purple Haze. Of course you can do whatever you want, but this approach won't get you any closer to the bebop language.

    Play chord tones. Make melodies. The main thing to look out for is the 3rd (D) for the Bb7 moving to a mi3rd (Db) for the Bbmi7, and the 3rd of Db (F) moving to the min3rd of Db (E=Fb) in bars 9 and 10. Listen to how Clark Terry leans into those notes.
    In addition, work out some II-V-I lines using tritone subs (i.e. altered notes, b9,#9,b5,#5) on the Vs. Throw a few blues licks over the Abmaj occasionally, and use chromatics (passing tones, target tones, delayed passing tones, etc) to give your lines a proper rhythmic feel. Maybe a #7 over the Fmi bars 21-27. Work out some interesting diminished run for the B dim.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by dean taylor
    ... How many times does the composition change key centers? ... In sum: how would you analyze the composition (re key center changes) before choosing your solo lines?
    I tend to agree with pkirk (above), but I would say that the whole tune is in Ab - or, at least, Ab and its related F minor. There are other dominant chords that function as secondary dominants, of course.

    One of your primary inputs should be the Donna Lee melody, which really spells out the harmony - the way Miles and Charlie were approaching it, anyway.

  5. #4

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    Is it worth checking out the song Donna Lee was based on, Back Home Again In Indiana? Or was the original melody been left behind by the Miles?

  6. #5

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    There isn`t much to analyze about this tune. The changes are loosely based on Rhythm Changes. It won`t help you too much to set o home scale and just stick with that. Do learn the chord tones and the scales each chord comes from and start playing at lower tempos trying to connect your ideas. As an e.g.: over Bb7 the scale you can use the Bb Mixolydian. That is the scale the chord comes from. Anything you play from that scale will be related to the chord in some way.

  7. #6

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    Within the Jazz guitar there are a lot of styles including: Gypsy, Swing, Bebop, Funk, Rock, Smooth.

    The styles overlap, but each has it's own distinct sounds, so a total immersion in a playing a style is needed if you want an authentic sound.

    Bebop requires a lot of listening and practice, personally, I think you can be a "Bebop Bluffer" by using a lot of approach notes to the chord tones.

    IMHO
    Guy

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Is it worth checking out the song Donna Lee was based on, Back Home Again In Indiana? Or was the original melody been left behind by the Miles?
    The original ... Indiana melody is very simple. There's a YouTube video of Jim Nabors singing it at some race track, as an example, if you want to look/hear.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster
    There's a YouTube video of Jim Nabors singing it at some race track, as an example, if you want to look/hear.
    The video you recommended could possibly deter anyone from listening to music for the rest of their life.

  10. #9

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    I've been warned, I'm not clicking on that!

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantSteps
    There isn`t much to analyze about this tune. The changes are loosely based on Rhythm Changes. It won`t help you too much to set o home scale and just stick with that. Do learn the chord tones and the scales each chord comes from and start playing at lower tempos trying to connect your ideas. As an e.g.: over Bb7 the scale you can use the Bb Mixolydian. That is the scale the chord comes from. Anything you play from that scale will be related to the chord in some way.
    The changes to Donna Lee are based on Back Home in Indiana which was composed in 1917 and predates I Got Rhythm (1930) by 13 years.

  12. #11

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    Been needing this thread for a while. I soar through the head and then my plane just falls from the sky... tailspin. FML

  13. #12

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    Agate, we should record...I don't have too many issues with the form, but getting that head up to tempo has been quite a battle for me!

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden
    The video you recommended could possibly deter anyone from listening to music for the rest of their life.
    That's not the same video - perhaps he does it annually?

    But, the one I found was not dramatically different, either. The point is, ... Indiana was an old-timey standard, maybe 30 years old before Davis & Parker got ahold of it. Now consider what it became with the Donna Lee melody and a hipper rhythmic and harmonic backing.

  15. #14

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    Jim Nabors has sung "Back Home In Indiana" with the Purdue University marching band before the Indianapolis 500 motor race for the last 50 odd years. Not exactly hip but a time honored tradition. I always liked the John Scofield/Bennie Wallace collab on Donna Lee...talk about stretchin' out... Whew!

  16. #15

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    " I always liked the John Scofield/Bennie Wallace collab on Donna Lee...talk about stretchin' out... Whew![/QUOTE]

    Any information on where this recording can be found? Can't seem to find it.

    Thx for any information.

  17. #16

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    Rhythm changes?

    I personally can approach the tune in a few ways... Tonally... pretty simple Ab and relative min F. That would work with a few harmonic approaches.

    Chord tones... I mean pull the changes from the melody and you'll see the changes are not that straight ahead. Yes very tonal with respect to where all the changes come from, but if you simply play chord tones etc... from the chart chord symbols...your missing most of the fun.

    I have a couple gigs for the next few hours...When I get home, I'll post a playing analysis and try and post a example of playing through the tune. I don't play it that often, but I can easily read through the head in time.

    Reg

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by srlank
    " I always liked the John Scofield/Bennie Wallace collab on Donna Lee...talk about stretchin' out... Whew!
    Any information on where this recording can be found? Can't seem to find it.

    Thx for any information. [/QUOTE]

    Hi srlank...i can't find any info on the album either...maybe Donna changes with a different name. To make a long story short, I'm from the same town as Bennie, and a tenor player who was close friends with Bennie had the album and played it for me. It had Bennie, Sco and Dannie Richmond on drums but that's all i can remember since it has been 20-25 years ago. It was up tempo and they played semi-outside but it was Donna Lee changes for sure and it was smokin'!

  19. #18

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    Thx very much for checking Eric. Maybe you found this on Youtube while looking around. It's great, but I'd love to be able to get it on Amazon or iTunes.


  20. #19

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    I really didn`t know that. I should really do my research better.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Agate, we should record...I don't have too many issues with the form, but getting that head up to tempo has been quite a battle for me!

    It's no small feat! My solution was to use the Jimmy Bruno's recommended fingering and then incorporated it in my daily warm up for six months.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden
    The video you recommended could possibly deter anyone from listening to music for the rest of their life.
    Just stumbled on this thread, but led me to a really burning version of Indiana w Glenn Campbell:


    Oooh, one more; Albert Lee + Danny Gatton: