Daahound

[Gertrude Moser]

Hey all,

Is it my imagination or is Daahoud a complete ballbreaker to solo over? Anyone else feel challenged to make all the changes, have any techniques to "simplify" things?

[henryrobinett]

Yeah man! It's a fun tune! I don't know any short cuts. 2-5s.

[wizard3739]

Great jazz standard! Slow it down a bit and the changes are easier to cover.

wiz

[jdaguitar2]

Great jazz standard! Slow it down a bit and the changes are easier to cover.

wiz

Yes, if you can input the chords into a sequencer or software sequencer and slow it down gradually getting faster as you feel more comfortable it should help.

[jtizzle]

Daahoud... if I believe so, it's just a bunch of cycles.

l Eb- Ab7 l Db- Gb7 l Cbmaj l F- Bb7 l
l Ebmaj l Cb7 Bb7 l Ebmin(maj7) l (Bb7) l

I think that's the A section. Divide it into four sub-sections:
1)First 3 bars are a cycle to Cb Major.
2)Bars 4+5, ii-V-I in Ebmaj.
3)Bars 6+7, II-V-I in Ebmin. Think of the Cb7 as an F7, which is a secondary dominant to Bb7, diatonically it would be F-.
4)Bar 8, can be a few things.

The first section is just a iii-VI-ii-V-I cycle in Cb. The VI chord (Ab) is made into a secondary dominant for chromatic voiceleading.

The second section is just a ii-V-I in Eb Major, a major third up. This might throw you off since going up a major third, you expect to play in minor. Think about the notes that change in the keys for a second:
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb
Eb F G Ab Bb C D
When you hit the F-, a really important note would be the C natural, as it's the only chord tone that changes from Cb major - Fminor. The third of Bb7, D, is would be a nice note to hit during the Bb, but a good option would be to play the chord as an altered 7th. It gives the impression that you're going into Ebminor, which is what's expected, making the resolution to Eb major that much sweeter. On Eb, the third is the best note to hit, the 7th is also good, as both notes are also outside the Cb major key, and in Eb major.

The third section is a II-V-I in Eb minor. Think of the Cb7 as a tritone sub of F7, and the F7 a secondary dominant of Bb7. So really play it as a normal ii-V-I, except then F7 is dominant, not minor, so there's an A natural. Gives off better voiceleading.
Diatonically, there would be an Eb - D on F- to Bb7 (7 -3 resolution)
Making the F- an F7 adds in another voice, A - Ab (3 - 7 chromatic movement)
This section also resolves to a minor chord with a maj7, so you might want to consider thinking of this section in either harmonic minor, or even better, melodic minor.

The last section can either stay as an Ebmin(maj7), but I like doing a turnaround here, even if it's just a Bb7.
The Bb7 would normally be altered, so you can do that. Also any other chord that leads into the Eb- at the top is acceptable.

The bridge is just two sequential ii-V-I's. I believe you shouldn't have any problems with this if you get over the A section.

[Gertrude Moser]

Yeah man! It's a fun tune! I don't know any short cuts. 2-5s.

My trouble starts more at measure 5-7 with (Ab-7 Gb7)(F7 Emaj7) (Ebmaj7). Hard (for me) not to sound "mechanical" IYKWIM. Thanks for the replies.

[NSJ]

When I see that progression, I try to make it more simple. Gb7 is the Tritone sub of the secondary dominant, preceded by ii chord. Unpeeling the onion, it is the tritone sub of the secondary dominant, i.e. C7. C7 is the VI7 chord in Eb. F7 is the II7 Chord in Eb.

[NSJ]

OK....upon further reflection:

Those changes ((Ab-7 Gb7)(F7 Emaj7) (Ebmaj7)) are alternatives to:

(Ebm7) (B7-Bb7)(EbM7). Try these instead?


I think the Ab-7-Gb7 should actually be: Ab-7-Gb6. Gb6 has the same notes as Ebm7. I.e., I as a Major 6 chord = vi as a Minor 7 chord.

Bb7 is just the V chord of EbM7. B7 is the tritone sub of the secondary dominant of Bb7.

[keith]

My trouble starts more at measure 5-7 with (Ab-7 Gb7)(F7 Emaj7) (Ebmaj7). Hard (for me) not to sound "mechanical" IYKWIM. Thanks for the replies.

I don't want to suggest anything about the harmony per se but when I feel that mechanical, less musical feel in phrasing it's usually because I'm trying to do too much with frequent changes. Just simplifying the phrasing by not covering each chord or just expressing it as a passing tone to where you're headed may help. At the same time work on the rhythmic aspect as that segment has a marching like feel to it so perhaps it's not what you play but how you play it. My $ 0.02 FWIW.

[henryrobinett]

My trouble starts more at measure 5-7 with (Ab-7 Gb7)(F7 Emaj7) (Ebmaj7). Hard (for me) not to sound "mechanical" IYKWIM. Thanks for the replies.

Hm. I thought you were talking about that. I play those changes during the head. Not the solos. But maybe that's just me.

[NSJ]

This thread reminded me that I have been neglecting the most important improvisational components of a song--the melody and the rhythms. It's so easy to base one's entire thinking on a solo on the song's accompaniment. That's what often leads to mechanical thinking.

I went back over the notes I had taken from going through Ed Byrne's books on reduced melody. I need to get back to that--taking a song's melody and creating a simple reduced melody, and compressing the entire reduced melody so as to see and hear it's overall contours and developments, and then chromatically targeting and embellishing each melody note. I think that's what someone like Frisell does, essentially. He plays off the melody.

Here are some of my brief introductory notes on Mr. Byrne's materials. Ed is a Massachusetts based trombone player and educator and has an excellent website of teaching materials for those that are interested. Google is your friend. These notes exclude what Mr. Byrne has to say on the rhythmic component--which is perhaps the most important aspect of improvisation. They go over WHAT to play:

Melody Reduction + Guide tone lines + root progression



Ed Byrne: "Melody Reduction is achieved by shrinking melodies to their fundamental pitches and rhythms by eliminating pick-ups, non-harmonic tones, and repeated notes, and simplifying the rhythms of these melodies by placing all notes squarely on the beat in order to secure a firm grasp of the essential compositional material upon which to create further development in improvisation….Our aim in this reduction stage is to identify the most essential melody notes in the simplest rhythmic form possible."


Which notes are non-essential in melody?


*Pickup notes
*chromatic passing tones
*approach tones/upper/lower neighbor tones
*repeated notes


Transforming in the reduced melody to the simplest rhythmic form possible means, many times, placing the reduced melody on the beat, with each note given a value such as an entire whole note or a half note.
Then, you an take this reduced melody of whole notes or half notes and compress the entire line. So, you can, for example, compress the entire melody to 1/8th the value (the whole notes become 8th notes; the half notes become 16th notes), to 1/4 of the original value, or even to 1/2 of its original value.


What can be done with the Reduced and/or compressed melody? The notes can be chromatically targeted and/or embellished. For example, each melody note can be targeted from (a) a semi-tone above; (b) a semitone below: (c ) a semi-tone above and below; (d) a semitone below and above. etc.

[Stevebol]

I take it we're talking about the Realbook version. Nevermind.

[Gertrude Moser]

I don't want to suggest anything about the harmony per se but when I feel that mechanical, less musical feel in phrasing it's usually because I'm trying to do too much with frequent changes. Just simplifying the phrasing by not covering each chord or just expressing it as a passing tone to where you're headed may help. At the same time work on the rhythmic aspect as that segment has a marching like feel to it so perhaps it's not what you play but how you play it. My $ 0.02 FWIW.

YES! I absolutely am guilty of doing just that, feeling like I need to create a melodic line that encompasses the entire arpeggio. I used to do that frequently and I've noted how much better it is when I simplify just as you mention. Thanks for the reminder.

[Gertrude Moser]

Hm. I thought you were talking about that. I play those changes during the head. Not the solos. But maybe that's just me.

So what changes do you use for the solos?

[henryrobinett]

The solo changes?

Ebm7 - Ab7 / C#m7 - F#7 / BMaj7

Although I've played with some guys who play it differently. The melody changes are just for the head, I believe. I could be wrong. The RB is wrong I think. The A sections end on EbMaj, not minor.

[Reg]

Great boppish tune...usually at bop tempo. That's generally what makes any tune difficult.

Solo wise... Skipping the approach, melodic or harmonic, lets just BS about where to pull from. If your developing lines, where to embellish from. Or if your developing harmonically where to start from etc...

So you can play bop style lines... spell out changes etc or you can play somewhat like a Blues approach... Eb- to Eb.

So basically the A section is just'''

Eb- to Cbmaj7... I- to bVImaj ... followed by Ab-7 Bb7... Ebmaj ....IV- V7 ... I

The rest is use of Modal Interchange, standard subs and approach chords.

So you play from Eb-, (mm), to a II V of bVImaj. Tonic to sub dom.

So Ebmm to Eb- blues,(over Db-7 Gb7) to Cbmaj. What you play over Cbmaj... either lydian, Ab min pentatonics or what ever should generally not feel or sound like a Tonic... it's SD... wants to go somewhere... usually to the approach to Ebmaj or Eb blues, or whatever you decide to resolve to.

I'll skip the "B" section... pretty straight ahead.

If BS is not clear... make me explain again. The tune is just a blowing tune... 4 bars to 4 bars Eb- to Ebma

Reg

[Bill C]

I like the changes Emily Remler used on the "East to Wes" album for bars 5-7. Unless my ears/memory are playing tricks it's something like ...

AMaj7b5 Abm7 | Gb13 Eadd13 | Ebadd9

[Reg]

Yea, those are cool... basically almost any changes work ... your just getting to Ebma. So is the Ama to Ab- a modal IV III thing with Gb subV of implied F7 to Ema etc...from

Ab- Gb7 / F7 Ema / to Eb ma. So Ab- is II- of implied V of F7 and F7 is either Sub V of bIImaj or F7 is V7 of Bb the V of Eb. and Emaj7 is modal interchange sub of Bb7...

Like I said they all work.. My references for playing over Remler's chord pattern approach to Ebma would be different from the original. (the harmonic rhythm).